Do Unbaptized Babies Go To Limbo?

Limbo is a theory developed by Medieval theologians as the place where unbaptized persons go when they die. Limbo is not an official doctrine of the Catholic Church, but it has not been officially rejected by the Church.

The quandary goes something like this. If we are born with original sin and an infant dies before baptism, will he or she go to hell?

This is an interesting quandary. We know that we are born with original sin. We also know that baptism is necessary for salvation. St. Peter says, “Baptism now saves you” (1 Peter 3:21). Through baptism the stain of original sin is removed and we are made children of God. Yet, if an infant with original sin dies, does he or she go to hell? A person who dies in a state of sin and without the graces of baptism may not enter heaven. However, infants are not guilty of sin. After all, they have not committed personal sin. Original sin is inherited, it is not a choice made by the infant to turn away from God. Infants do not have the capability to choose to sin. Is it possible that God would send these innocent children to hell? And if not, without the graces of baptism, can they go to heaven?

History of the Theory of Limbo

In response to Pelagius (d. 425), who taught that the heresy that baptism is not necessary for salvation (called Pelagianism), St. Augustine (d. 430) contended that unbaptized children who die are condemned to hell. They do not suffer all its pains because they are not guilty of personal sin, but because baptism is necessary for salvation, they will not enter heaven.

Later theologians, in the Middle Ages, posited the existence of limbo as a way to soften the harshness of St. Augustine’s position. Unlike the state of quasi-hell posited by St. Augustine, these theologians defined limbo as a quasi-heaven. Limbo was considered to be a place or state of where unbaptized persons enjoy a natural state of happiness. These people experience every natural happiness, but they remain excluded from the Beatific Vision of God in heaven. Some incorrectly identify this limbo with the hell of the Apostle’s Creed where, according to tradition, Christ spent the interval between Good Friday and Easter Sunday.

The Theological Problems with Limbo

Limbo’s theological foundations are shaky at best. The Catholic Church teaches that God wants all people to be saved. God wills for all people to join him in heaven. We also know that God is merciful and that people can get to heaven who have not known Jesus through no fault of their own.

The Catechism of the Catholic Church expresses well the Catholic Church’s teaching on how we can reconcile the necessity of baptism with the belief that God wills the salvation of all people:

Since Christ died for all, and since all men are in fact called to one and the same destiny, which is divine, we must hold that the Holy Spirit offers to all the possibility of being made partakers, in a way known to God, of the Paschal mystery. Every man who is ignorant of the Gospel of Christ and of His church but seeks the truth and does the will of God in accordance with his understanding of it, can be saved. It may be supposed that such persons would have desired baptism explicitly if they had known its necessity (CCC 1260).

To put this passage in simpler language, Jesus died for everyone. Therefore, we all have the same destiny: heavenly joy. Not everyone gets a chance to hear the good news of Jesus and choose to be baptized. We may hope for salvation for those who seek the truth and act ethically in accordance with how they understand morality. An unbaptized baby is not old enough to seek the truth and choose to behave in an ethical way, but neither has the unbaptized baby rejected truth or moral behavior. We have certainty that a baptized baby who dies will end up in heaven, but we have good grounds for hope that babies who die without baptism will also experience the joy of eternal life in the presence of God.

Therefore, the belief that unbaptized babies are denied the beatific vision and sent to a place that’s not quite heaven and not quite hell does not seem to agree with the Church’s current understanding of God’s universal salvific will and mercy.

The Current View of Limbo

The Church does not accept or officially condemn the theory of Limbo because it is a theological theory. Theological theories usually don’t result in official responses by the Church unless it becomes clear that these theories are either excellent ways of explaining doctrine or that they explicitly go against such doctrine. The Church may also reject some theories as heretical if it becomes clear that they are not in accord with the truth found in Scripture and Tradition.

The theory of Limbo is not heretical because Scripture and Tradition do not explicitly say what happens to unbaptized babies. However, due to the problems with the theory of Limbo, this theory plays almost no role in current Catholic theology. Instead, modern theology and church practice stress the fundamental solidarity of redeemed humanity and God’s will that all may be saved.

49 thoughts on “Do Unbaptized Babies Go To Limbo?”

  1. Sure we don’t baptise them now, we abort them. Where are us the people, the parents gonna go, who haven’t baptised them into the one holy and apostolic church. The children will be fine. It’s the parents you’d want to worry about.

  2. Baptism is NOT necessary to go to Heaven! Jesus said to the murderer on the cross beside him, that he will be at his side because of his faith. That murderer wasn’t baptized.

  3. You Catholics talk so stupid on things that you don’t comprehend that if I would stop crying for your ways
    in pity I’d bust a gut laughing over your stuff. What a bunch of hypocrites!

    I know you won’t post this.

    1. Ron Kempen, Did you actually read this and understand the document? or was it beyond your ability to understand?

      I found this a very good document. St Augustine had to respond to yet again another heresy this time called Pelagianism by Pelagius (d. 425) Lets look at Pelagianism which also taught works alone would be enough to receive eternal life. Ron I guess you would agree that this is a heresy? You may like to thank the Catholic Church for defending against this heressy.

      Notice it was the Catholic church which defending against heressies not a protestant church, so don’t be so quick with your comments Ron.

      The Catholic church split blood defending the word of God, far more than you have done Ron.

      Pelagius denied that we inherit original sin from Adam’s sin in the Garden and claimed that we become sinful only through the bad example of the sinful community into which we are born. Conversely, he denied that we inherit righteousness as a result of Christ’s death on the cross and said that we become personally righteous by instruction and imitation in the Christian community, following the example of Christ. Pelagius stated that man is born morally neutral and can achieve heaven under his own powers. According to him, God’s grace is not truly necessary, but merely makes easier an otherwise difficult task.

      So St Augustine had to quickly to put this to bed. In fairness to St Augustine re the unbaptised infant or unborn child he is partly right on one hand eg ‘Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God’ (John 3:5).”but on the other hand balancing other scripture like Maccabees and other scriptural examples of baptism of desire, see Acts 10:44–48; cf. Luke 23:42–43). together with the fact we are bound by the sacraments but God isn’t.

      This was a theory of St Augustine not a dogma of the Church nor an official teachings. Although the early fathers were brilliant men, they still are not perfect and at times get it wrong. Eg Origen was a brilliant apologist, many great writings however his view on gehenna was simply wrong and the church voiced its concern.

      My personal belief St Augustine over reacted in his reply by using the illustratation of unbaptised child to drive a point home. Yes I believe he was wrong, overlooking baptism by desire and maybe you could argue baptism by blood.

      Ron are you so perfect that you don’t make mistakes? I didn’t notice you in the early centuries defending the faith and puting your life on the line to preserve God Holy word, but the Catholic Church spilt blood so you could enjoy Gods Holy word and the Church preserved scripture and the tradition that Paul takes about.

      Lets go one step further. A historical fact, in the Council of Carthage 397 AD the Catholic Church cannonised the 27 books of the new testament. The Church made an infalliable decision on the 27 books, if you say it wasnt an infalliable decision then you cant say for definite they are the right collection or the right number of books, nor could say they are inspired. Are you aware there was much dispute over at least six books and because heressies the church had to declare which books were inspired.

      So the very church that Christ founded upon the rock is the very church you hate Ron.

      God Bless and dont be so blinded, and quick to make judgement

    2. Ron– Guess what, they posted it…
      Last time anyone checked. The Catholic Church, hence Christianity was started by Jesus himself. That is not the case for anyone who recognizes with any Protestant or atheist ideologies. Religion 101. And all men and women are hypocrites. That is why we are men and women and not God. I won’t laugh at you but will definetly pray for you and your spitefulness.

    3. You may not like the Catholic church, but I’m curious, what do you have against proper grammar? That sentence is atrocious.

      It appears you were wrong; they did post it.

    4. Ron Kempen I can see your not catholic and I can tell your religion doesn’t teach you respect,no matter what Catholic is the right way of life,the true religion and sorry to tell you but catholics are not stupid,others dislike the fact,that catholic is the true religion after that all sects came and made their own religions,and I think you should laughing at yourself for nonsense you talk without using your brain ..Haha and it’s useless to talk to people like you ,who I only feel sorry ,but will keep u in my prayers ..take care and God bless you and open your eyes to see the thruth.

    5. Ronnie boy – it was posted and the jokes on ye. I suppose ye hold that ye comprehend more than 2000 years of devout Christians?

  4. What wrong has an unbaptized infant done, so as to be banished to Limbo ? Children do not inherit
    the sins of the fathers. We are finite human beings attempting to understand the realm of the spirit.
    When Yeshua(Jesus) spoke of heaven having mansions or streets being paved with gold, were these
    images meant to be literal. Of course not, they were poetic verses for the human ear to understand
    these concepts of a plain of spirit. Regardless of our faith perspective, historical traditions, we
    truly at a lose in trying to understand God. Isaiah put it the best ” My thoughts are not your thoughts and
    my ways are not your ways.

    1. Melissa - mommy of 8 + 2 angels

      It’s never been revealed what happens to unborn children in the Bible or Revelation…I believe God kept that to Himself to test our faith in the mystery of His infinite mercy and His love of children. If there is a Limbo for the unborn and unbaptized, it is simply a waiting place for Heaven at the end of times…

    2. Catholics teach that we are born with original sin. Doesn’t mean it’s right, but I believe it. I believe in purgatory too. Doesn’t mean I’m ignorant or closed-minded. I just don’t think the same as you.

  5. About Infants who Die Without Baptism

    …baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins.
     12 But little children are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world; if not so, God is a partial God, and also a changeable God, and a respecter to persons; for how many little children have died without baptism!
     13 Wherefore, if little children could not be saved without baptism, these must have gone to an endless hell.
     14 Behold I say unto you, that he that supposeth that little children need baptism is in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for he hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell.
     15 For awful is the wickedness to suppose that God saveth one child because of baptism, and the other must perish because he hath no baptism….
    word of Wisdom taken from the Book of Mormon (Moroni Chapter 8)

  6. I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (AkA Mormon) and was looking up catholic beliefs for a writing project I’m working on and came across this topic. With complete respect to all the wonderful Catholics I know, I would like to share my difference of belief, that I know without a shadow of a doubt that every baby or child younger than an age at which they have accountability will be saved in the highest kingdom with their loving Heavenly Father. Christ’s atonement makes up for them not being baptized so that they can still be saved. God is loving. He would not make a perfectly innocent child who has done no wrong suffer in Hell. This is from the Book of Mormon, something we Mormons believe goes hand in hand with the Bible as the word of God (Just from different prophets and different times): Moroni 8:11: And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins. 12 But little children are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world; if not so, God is a partial God, and also a changeable God, and a respecter to persons; for how many little children have died without baptism! You can go to Mormon.org if you want to learn more.

    1. Did you read the last paragraph, Deb? What is the, ” difference of belief” of which you speak? These children share in the devine destiny that we are all called to.

    2. I agree that God would never punish an innocent child. No disrespect meant for Mormons, but what if that innocent child was sick, getting blood transfusions & life saving medications, do you feel the same and that’s ok to save the child?

  7. T.A.H. de Ruyter

    Millions of couples, particularly the mothers of the domestic Church, suffered because they grieved over their miscarried children, who they firmly believed would never see God as he is. Millions of Catholics were made to believe, that this was official teaching of the Mystical Body of Christ. The majority of them were simply either not enough educated, or just not intelligent enough to counter what they were told. You were in a vague way a ‘bad catholic’ if you did not believe it. As far as I know at least two Popes re-affirmed the teaching, one called it ‘shameful’ if you merely began to wonder, the other one called you more or less a ‘damned heretic’.
    Now we are told that on may think that the little ones might after all in the end see God as he is !
    Conclusion: all the long suffering of millions upon millions of the faithful (caused by the teaching body) has been un-necessary.
    Apology: ‘oops…. a little mistake, but what is a little mistake (which caused so much mental suffering)between friends eh ?
    We (the Church, the Church) being unreliable and making the faithful sometimes believe untruth, neverrrr……
    MY OPINION: this makes you wonder what else has never been true.

    1. Hon… for the “bad Catholics”, what if it’s not a miscarriage. What if it’s a 2 year old child that dies? Do you really believe God would condemn this baby because of a parents decision?

    2. What else has never been true:

      ANSWER:

      1. The Filioque Clause.
      2, Purgatory
      3. The Treasury of Merit
      3. The Immaculate Conception
      4. Indulgences
      5. Papal Supremacy
      6. Baptism by Sprinkling
      7. Withholding Communion from Infant Children
      8. The Doctrine of Original Sin
      9. Priestly Celibacy.

      All these are going to have to GO if the East and West are to be reunited.

  8. Have you ever wondered why it is said that those who haven’t been baptized go to “limbo” after they die, while those who have been baptized are either saved or go to Hell?
    Coincidently, the Cathars invented their sacrament of unbaptism as a solution for this problem, and thereby were the target of the first crusade, the Albegensian Crusade, that attempted to exterminate all who knew this secret. More about this later.
    The original baptism was an ordeal akin to waterboarding. Waterboarding has been used to replace LSD for the Clockwork Orange treatment, just as sure as Dr. Stanislav Grof’s Holotropic Breathing replaced LSD therapy. But, waterboarding is a more direct vagal stimulation by directly stimulating the root of the vagus nerve as it emerges from the brain in the nasopharynx. It is a fact that vagal stimulation is as effective as LSD.
    Why is it said that the baptized are immortal? Those given the original waterboarding kind of baptism experienced that they were immortal.
    LSD wakes up the brain by blocking seratonin the neurotransmitter of the inhibitory neurons that ordinarily keeps the brain down to 10% brain use. The MRI shows that, though areas of light move around as various regions of the brain are used, normally, the total sum of the area of these areas of light is not more than 10% brain use.
    Vagal stimulation works by this parasympathetic, also called muscarinic after the psychedelic drug muscarine, stimulation spreading up through the brain, thereby overriding the inhibitory neurons, awakening more than the normal 10% brain use.
    The psychiatric term for more than 10% brain use is psychosis. Real schizophrenia is more than 10% brain use caused by the gene DISC1 causing more linkage between the brain’s neurons by the growth of more axons and dendrites than normal.
    From 10% to 19% brain use there is a euphoria called perinatal matrix one. From 20% to 49% brain use there is an awesome perception of our larger universe, also known as “the knowledge of good and evil”, called perinatal matrix two. From 50% to 100% brain use is perinatal matrix three, where the tremendous mind powers of perinatal matrix two have grown to such proportions as to be uncontrolable, and all Hell breaks loose.
    As percentage of brain use increases the mind becomes more and more powerful to manifest its imagination. From 30% to 39% brain use all that is written will become the writer’s reality. From 40% to 49% brain use all that is spoken will become the speaker’s reality. But, from 50% to 100% brain use every thought manifests as the thinker’s reality.
    Soon the thinker wishes he were someone else, and “zap” he finds himself in the body of that someone else, but most probably with a brain with only 10% brain use. But, it not being his body, when that body sleeps or dies, it’s off to another body, and on, and on, body switching backward and forward in time, for about a hundred years duration, called in the Bible the “aioniu amartematos”, aeon of failure.
    With this experience the ancient baptized figured that they were immortal, thus, the baptized couldn’t “go to Limbo” which was secretly identical with the Eastern “Nirvana”, nonexistence, but were immortal to suffer on “forever” if a conspicuous heaven wasn’t granted.
    Crucifixion, by forcing holotropic breathing, also causes enough vagal stimulation to put its victims in perinatal matrix three; thus, Jesus Christ, being God the Son, body switched backward and forward in time into everyone who ever was, is, or will be, and therefore He is in you an I right now and always.
    Advanced yogins used a technique of accute vagal stimulation by putting their tongues up behind their noses. In order to do this they have to cut the tissue that holds their tongues down, and sometimes also stretch their tongues. This techniques is called the “khechari mudra”, that is, the “fig gesture”.
    When such a yogin puts his tongue up behind his nose he goes into suspended animation by vagal syncope. Such yogins have been known to have been buried in the sands of the Ganges and resurrected two weeks later. This shows that enough vagal stimulation can be followed up by resurrection, if there is not too much brain death, and, this suspended animation preserves from brain death. There is no real death without enough brain death.
    The Clerics of Azagthoth, among others, extensively use vagal stimulation, for the “magical power” of perinatal matrix two. The only secrets such true Black Left Hand Path orders like the Clerics of Azagthoth keep are names and places. In fact they want the world to know about all such suppressed knowledge.
    The Clerics of Azagthoth have ten degrees corresponding to the Hebrew Sephiroth, Malcuth, the first degree and tenth house, to Kether, the tenth degree and first house. But, this scheme is through three major stages: the Purple Counts, the Blue Rangers, and, finally and understandably, the Green Barons, called today “zombies”.
    The Cathar sacrament of unbaptism is also vagal stimulation, but, only to perinatal matrix two, “the knowledge of good and evil”. It was figured that the “original sin” committed by Adam and Eve was that Adam and Eve caused each other enough vagal stimulation, by the “apple”, to have “the knowledge of good and evil” of perinatal matrix two.
    And, since the sacrament of baptism is said to be the remedy for the “original sin”, but renders the baptized subject to heaven or Hell, rather than the “limbo” of the unbaptized, recommit the “original sin” to give up heaven to avoid Hell, and go to “limbo”, nonexistence, like, supposedly, the animals do.

    1. Only correction, the first Crusade was declared by Pope Urban II against the Arab Islamic armies that had taken over the holy land. The Crusade you mentioned came around two hundred years after this.

  9. Well you have to go on church teaching. You can’t just say Jesus came and now you are justified. That is ludicrous. Bobby English probably said it best, but I have heard doctrine say unbaptized babies go to a part of hell with no fire. So I will have to look further into that. Jesus came and established a church the ONE and only True church which is pre Vatican Catholic Church. You must go on those original teachings or you will suffer hell no matter who you are or what you believe or your age. We are all under the same umbrella, if you don’t believe in the Catholic faith it doesn’t make it untrue. You can deny the truth of anything, you can argue gravity is not real but you sure will fall. We all have an obligation to know the truth and no one will be excused, infants and young children can’t do so on their own, when you bring precious life into this world their life and soul are in your hands to do what is right, which includes baptism, just as feeding changing and loving them. They can not live without food, water, or even love and affection and can not enjoy eternal life without baptism. We are in revelations and make no mistake we are seeing the counter church, this new Catholic Church is not the true church. We are warned of a counter church and the one true church will be reduced to a remnant, the first Christian church was founded by the apostles who wrote the bible and that is the Catholic Church and many Saints have wrote letters as to be careful of the end times and not to believe when they try to change doctrine. The Holy Spirit guided the apostles as they wrote and once doctrine was established it could not be changed. Learn the true history, if you love the truth you will see, go to the website, stay in the darkness if you choose but remember gravity is real and you will fall.

    1. There is a world of fire. If you take a Cartesian coordinate system, use the X axis to represent opposite polarities separated, and the Y axis to represent opposite polarities united and cancelled out
      .
      As you approach the origin of that Cartesian coordinate system the distances between the X axis and the Y axis get shorter and shorter, representing faster and faster rates of polarity cancellation rate, identical with what is called faster entropy production rates (EPR’s) in thermodynamics.

      EPR is an analogue of velocity in mechanics and current in electrical engineering. These access globally bent timespaces, in a fifth dimensional direction, which have lower values of pi.

      Thus, the numbers along the axises represent values of pi. Fire is a fast EPR. By the time you reach a pi value of e=2.718… everything is in flames. That is the surface of the Lake of Fire.

      The Hindus and Buddhists know this. They call this realm “Dharmaloka”; but that everyone in Dharmaloka has what is called a “dharmakaya”, a body of fire.

      These “Liberationist” religions believe you can cancel out into nothingness, attain Nirvana, easier there. The flowery talk about the drop rejoining the “great sea” is just symbolizing entities undifferentiating into nothingness.

      There are two things in the universe, energy and “information”. It’s like taking a cloth, representing energy, and wrinkling it up. The wrinkles represent “information”.

      Pull the cloth out straight and the wrinkles (information) vanishes, become nonexistent. This has been discovered in science where, “In physics, Ricci curvature is analogous to matter.

      “Space with zero Ricci curvature is space without matter- a vacuum”- Dr. Shing Tung Yau. This is describing the same graph of the eighth, ninth, and tenth dimensions.

      Dr. Albert Einstein defined the fourth dimension to be time, and Dr. Lisa Randall defined in and out of more globally bent timespaces to be the fifth dimension.

      And. sideways in time, across Dr. Hugh Everett’s probability timelines, has been called the sixth dimension. The distance from the X axis to the Y axis, that we just described, had to be the seventh dimension.

      It is obvious that organized religion has exploited mankind by threatening eternal torment of the “immortal” soul. The immortality of the soul was a Greek dogma propagated by Plato, that due to the conquests of Alexander the Great, this dogma influenced philosophy in the Western world.

      That which we call “I”, our entity, is a closed circuit of the one substance, E=Mc², in the one substance, E=Mc², that there be something to move out of the way and fill in behind.

      In order to totally undifferentiate it must line up exactly with a confluency to the exact Planck’s distance. But, the pressure of ambient repelling circuits pushes toward this undifferentiation, that Y axis, with the force we call attraction.

      Everything is trying to “run down”, but some, to those others that are running down, wind them back up somewhat. The sun, running down, slammed its light into the orthogonalities of chlorophyll and perpetuated life therewith.

      Where is God in all this? In 1John1:5 it says, “God is light”. Science found that light is energy. Thus, “In Him we live and move and have our being.

      We are not energy, as believed by New Agers. If we were energy we would never sleep. Light, God is always conscious. We are only information. We are perishable.

      But, even though in actuality, the heart of every pleasure is a moment of near nonexistence, there were those who hoped to enjoy these moments of near nonexistence by avoiding permanent nonexistence.

      Salvationist religions, like Judaism, Christianity, and Islam, formed. And Jesus Christ came to provide eternal life for those who wanted it.

      You can see the fallacy here. But, that fallacious thinking is just another “negative feedback mechanism” that maintains life.

      A “negative feedback mechanism” is where the product of a process slows down production by interfering with that process.

      Even with what I know here I am 99.999% sure that I can eventually become nonexistent and never suffer again. But, there is that fraction of a percent that’s got me. Can you clear that up?
      What do Moslems believe about this question? Christian sects like the Seventh Day Adventists, and the Jehovah’s Witnesses, believe that the damned become nonexistent in Hell. And, Martin Luther, the father of modern Protestantism, believed this. Much of the stuff I write is forbidden and suppressed knowledge. I try to encapsulate it all to get it all out fast. I have taught two week courses to explain everything so that it is all understood by my students.

      But, the details can be investigated in dictionaries, encyclopedias, and especially in Google and Wikipedia.

      It is very comforting to know the basics of the universe. I am surprised at how many people don’t care about these things.

      Back in high school I wrote a term paper titled “Superstition in America” in which all the secrets of the freemasons were exposed.

      A banished freemason I met, who was homeless on the street, told them to anyone who would listen. I listened.

      My “Problems of Democracy” teacher gave me a 98% for the term paper; and, he later sold that term paper in the term paper black market. A freemason’s daughter read it, he read it, and detectives were sent to catch the author (me).

      How did I find out? THEY caught up with me in the Army, locked me up, and gave me the real Hell. And, THEY bragged how powerful THEY were, and that I didn’t have a chance.

      Before I sent the John Birch Society a twenty page report about this, the only world conspiracy theory accused the Jews.

      The John Birch Society then came out with the modern Conspiracy Theory about the One World Order and THEIR Illuminati, and that theory spread from there.

      But, I wanted all the real secrets out to everybody, so that no longer would innocent people who stumbled upon them be ruined by the suppressors.

      Like Mel Gibson in “Conspiracy Theory”, I obsessively wrote up my stuff, dropped it into mail boxes, and ran back to make sure it went all the way in the mail box.

      The internet came along and I have been obsessively spreading my stuff by internet ever since, though I still snail mail, and I do tell everybody who will listen.

      Every publishing company who published my stuff was wiped off the face of the earth and replaced by duplicate companies. That official process started with the Boston Phoenix.

      But, I have been obsessed with hate, anger, and defiance ever since THEY caused me incredible pain. THEY thought it would prevent me from exposing them; but, it obsessed me with telling everybody! I will fight to the death!

      We must forgive individuals; but, we may hate demons. In Greek, the word demon means a group spirit. “We fight not flesh and blood, we fight powers and principalities. And, that is what I am going to do!
      Do the damned become nonexistent in Hell? Martin Luther believed they did.

      There is a web site that says that the Old Testament Jews believed that the damned became nonexistent in Hell. Any Jews I have remembered to ask that question said that they didn’t know. They were “luke warm” Jews.

      The doctrine of the “immortality of the soul” seemed to have been started by Plato, with nothing to back up that theory. Alexander the Great spread Greek thought where ever he conquered, and, it influenced Middle Eastern thought.

      Philosophy in the Middle East has many ancient Greek elements. Even the classical Middle Eastern music has the musical scale of Pythagorus.

      Pythagorus was a famous Greek mathematician who said that his musical scale corresponded to the “spheres of the planets”. He had figured it out mathematically.

      There was the geocentric theory of the “planetary spheres” before Copernicus showed that the Earth, and other planets, revolve around the sun.

      The geocentric theory was based upon the time it took planets to circle the zodiac. It was based on more evidence than the theory of the immortality of the soul.

      The spheres of the planets were seen as levels of the “heavens”. That is why the crescent is the major symbol of Islam. Mohammed is said to have received the Koran from the angel Gabriel, angel of the first heaven, the heaven of the moon.

      The reality of these heavens is not up in a third dimensional direction, but in the fifth dimensional direction, recently defined for, and accepted by official science, by Dr. Lisa Randall, a professor of quantum physics in Harvard University.

      Dr. Albert Einstein noticed the various warps of timespace; but he officially defined the fourth dimension to be time.

      The fifth dimension is along the variously bent contours of warped timespace, caused by gravity, velocity in mechanics, current in electricity, and what is called entropy production rate in thermodynamics, which is identical with polarity cancellation rate.
      It is by polarity cancellation that things may become nonexistent. Fire is a fast polarity cancellation rate.

      There are two things in the universe, energy and “information”, and information, like matter, is the conformation of energy.
      It is like, if you take a sheet, to represent energy. Wrinkles in the sheet represent “information”. Straighten out the sheet and all the wrinkles vanish, become nonexistent.

      This is not such a vague illustration. I quote this from Discover Magazine, a science magazine. “In physics, Ricci curvature is analogous to matter. Space with zero Ricci curvature is space without matter – a vacuum.”

      This was stated by the mathematician Dr. Shing-Tung Yau. This contour graph has been assigned to the eight, ninth, and tenth dimensions.

      Whereas, the sixth dimension is that direction across probability timelines, side ways in time. And the seventh dimension is the extent of polarity cancellation, identical with entropy.

      The seventh dimensional definition was necessitated by a Cartesian coordinate graph where the X axis represents polarities separated and the Y axis represents polarities united and cancelled out. Going to and from the origin is the fifth dimension. Yesterday I just found out from three Moslems that the Moslems believe that the damned only get punished for what they did wrong, and then it’s all over and they go to Heaven for eternity.

      This Moslem was from Egypt, and his fellow Moslems were from Saudi Arabia. That’s more good weight against the eternal damnation dogma.

      For the past ten years I have been associated with a Pentecostal church which believes that even non-Christian babies, if they die undedicated to Christ, will burn in the Lake of Fire for eternity.

      Some Cathars took advantage of the Catholic “Heaven, Purgatory, Hell, Limbo” dogma. They invented the sacrament of “unbaptism”.

      Supposedly, getting unbaptised was giving up Heaven to avoid Hell. It was recommitting the Original Sin of Adam & Eve. It is a dangerous yoga, that the freemasons also believe was the Original Sin, and the supreme secret of many mystical secret societies.

      My associate got it trouble discussing it
      outright. Someone died practicing it, and he has a Constitutional case on his hands. He’ll take it all the way to the Supreme Court.

      The Pope reacted to the sacrament of unbaptism by sending out a crusade of knights to suppress the very knowledge of this secret. Two million French people were exterminated by this Albigensian Crusade.

      In Islam unbaptism is a capital offense, referred to in the Koran as “blowing on knots”, and is punishable by stoning to death.

      In “the land of the free” millions of American citizens were committed to mental hospital gulags for being caught with the unauthorized knowledge and/or practice of unbaptism.

      Unfortunate individuals with, what the Soviet Union called, “shamans’ disease”, were also committed as “schizophrenics”. The “psychosis” is caused by stimulation of the “muscarinic” nervous system.

      Practice of vagal stimulation was perfectly legal in the Soviet Union and its Communist Block countries, due to their materialistic atheism.

      Muscarinic stimulation overrides the inhibitory neurons of the brain, allowing the brain to use more than the legal 10%. LSD blocks these same inhibitory neurons.

      And, real “schizophrenia” is having more than the normal number of axons and dendrites between the neurons of the brain, also causing more of the brain to be used.

      This is caused by a gene called DISC1, which shows that people with this gene constitute a genotype, with all the human rights of any other genotype.

      This knowledge about DISC1 threatens the dopamine blocker industry, therefore, efforts have been made to cover it up, and blame “schizophrenia” on other causes, like the “insane virus”.

      I’d settle for non existence. Let’s face it, the threat of eternal torment is a religion based on fear, called in logic, “argumentum ad bacculum”, meaning, the argument that you will get hit with the “bacculum”, the beating club, if you fail.

      1. You talk too much.
        Jesus said let the children come unto me for of such is the kingdom of heaven.
        The Catholic Church says that limbo is only hear say but then this same church lies out of the same mouth from which they teach and endorse limbo.
        This same church baptizes infants so they don’t go to hell or limbo and then this same church says that limbo is only hear say, hypocrites.
        Limbo does not exist, Jesus out of His mercy does not condemn unbaptised dead infants to limbo nor to hell.
        Stop calling Jesus a barbaric heathen toward infants and children.

    2. Following a church which has been managed by popes responsible for selling power, murdering people, covering up abuse of children, etc. Can hardly be called the one and only true faith. Catholics need to wake up and actually read the bible.

  10. As a Christian, it is neccessary to follow the way of Christ, I strongly believe that infants are novice of the sin they commit, so, I don’t really believe that they will go to hell. About purgatory, either it exist or not one need to live a holy life to avoid any obstacle from getting to heaven.

  11. Limbo is just another false teach fabricated by the RCC. There is no limbo and there is no purgatory. The RCC fabricated Limbo 1000 years ago because so many babies were dying at childbirth. The RCC needed to compel parents to bring their infants to the church for baptism so they get people locked into their religion of bondage and fear (satanic). With so many distraught mothers who had just watched their babies die at childbirth they feared they had brought a baby into the world and now the baby was headed straight for hell. The RCC made up Limbo to make it all better. Oh what a tangled web we weave…. Purgatory was also made up so that you would never come to the knowledge of salvation by Grace….the blood of Jesus. You can’t save yourself …you can’t even help!! Ephesians 2:8-10. Look it up! Don’t believe the lies of the RCC. The RCC is Satans’ invention and if you think you can earn your way to heaven….Satan wins and you lose! Trust in the blood of Jesus. It is His substitutionary atoning sacrifice that offers you your only hope. He came to rescue YOU! Trust in Him and let Him save you. Read your Bible and ignore all this catholic nonsense. You will never be justified by being “good” because God’s standard is completely beyond our ability to reach. That’s why we need a Savior!! Thank you Jesus! He did it all. trust in Jesus alone. No church or religion can save you. Only the precious blood of Jesus. Former Catholic

  12. Miguel Lahunken

    In 1100 AD some Cathars invented the Sacrament of Unbaptism.
    “Give up Heaven to avoid Hell, and go to Limbo”. Sound Catholic dogma. But, the Pope ordered the Albigensian Crusade to exterminate all knowledge of this concept. Two million French men, women, and children were slaughtered.
    But, the actual act of Unbaptism was a profanation of the Sacred Mysteries, still suppressed today by those who claim to be the “sole repository of the Sacred Mysteries”.

  13. To say that we are saved by baptism of water, or go to hell, reminds me of The thief on the cross with Jesus, where Jesus said “Today you will be with Me in paradise”.
    It also debunks SDA beliefs of ‘soul sleep’.

  14. Jesus said, “Suffer the children to come to me…” He also cured the cripple whose friends lowered him through the roof, because of the Faith of the friends, The Church teaches Baptism of desire. Putting these together, I believe that ANYONE, not just infants, who dies without Baptism, but who would have wanted it if he had known about it, receives Baptism of desire.

    1. Our sins are not washed by water baptism. If that was the case, than Jesus didn’t have to come. This doctrine is man made, not biblical. 1 john 1:7-“..and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanseth us from all sin”.
      Infants are blameless and innocent Deut. 1:39. And Jesus himself was baptized at the age of 30 years old in Luke 3:23. The bible has the answers about our salvation, not a non-biblical “religion”.
      Think about this, are you guaranteeing your eternity by man made Roman doctrine, or by the word of God in His book…The Bible? Who are you going to believe for your eternal occupancy?
      Jesus died for you, and gave us His words in the bible, to follow Him if we loved Him, to keep His commandments (john 14:15). Satan has deceived many religious domination, by thinking we can be save by being a part of a so-called true church, because we are the church that He is coming back for (Ephesians 5:25-27.
      Christianity is not a religion, it’s a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

    2. Hey Clara, how does an infant desire baptism?
      Are you really that cold hearted or just plain stupid?
      Or maybe your Catholic Church is just plain cold hearted and stupid.

  15. no, unborn babies go to heaven because they have never sinned against God. only good dancers go to limbo because it is a nice dance. they are still there doing the limbo. he idea of it all is that most catholic doctrine are a fraud just like limbo is, cha cha cha

  16. Do you have the reference citing Augustines belief in unbaptised babies going to hell? I would love it. Thanks.

    1. UNBAPTIZED INFANTS SUFFER FIRE

      In past centuries, the Roman Catholic Church approved, with the highest authority, the teaching of St. Augustine on the fate in HELL FIRE of infants who die without baptism. Augustine drew upon the Bible to maintain against the British monk Pelagius and his camp in the fifth century the following points of doctrine.

      (1) That infants who die without baptism have the penalty of FIRE IN HELL with the devil;

      (2) That there is no place anywhere, in heaven, hell or anywhere else, where unbaptized infants have rest and happiness.

      Since that time it has been a part of the Pelagian heresy to deny that doctrine.

      The teaching of St. Augustine on the fate of unbaptized infants was codified at the XVI Council of Carthage in 418, the Council of Lyons II in 1274, and at the Council of Florence in 1438-1445.

      The teaching of these councils is considered to be infallible by Catholic theologians because of the degree of authority given to them by popes. However, medieval Scholastics departed from the doctrine and revived the Limbo heresy of the Pelagians; Rome would now admit unbaptized infants to heaven in the universal salvation of all people.
      BURN BABY BURN, IN HELL

      The Catholic Church has infallibly taught the doctrine, which Augustine defended against the Pelagians, that all are conceived actually guilty of original sin and are punished by God in body and soul for that guilt.

      The Council of Trent (1545-1563) was a doctrinal ecumenical council that is accepted as infallible by all Catholic theologians. It defined that “all people lost their innocence” in the original sin; indeed, we are born with “the guilt of original sin”, which has the “true and proper nature of sin” and is “in each one as his own.”

      Council of Trent:

      “The holy Synod declares first, that, for the correct and sound understanding of the doctrine of Justification, it is necessary that each one recognize and confess, that, whereas all people had lost their innocence in the prevarication of Adam…”

      Council of Trent:

      “If any one denies, that, by the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, which is conferred in baptism, the guilt of original sin is remitted; or even asserts that the whole of that which has the true and proper nature of sin is not taken away; but says that it is only rased, or not imputed; let him be anathema. let him be anathema.”

      Council of Trent:

      “If any one asserts, that this sin of Adam – which in its origin is one, and being transfused into all by propagation, is in each one as his own – is taken away by any other remedy than the merit of the one mediator, our Lord Jesus Christ, let him be anathema.”

      Trent defined that death and the punishment of the body are due to people due to the guilt that they have from the sin of Adam.

      “If any one asserts, that the prevarication of Adam injured himself alone, and not his posterity; and that the holiness and justice, received of God, which he lost, he lost for himself alone, and not for us also; or that he, being defiled by the sin of disobedience, has only transfused death and the punishment of the body into the whole human race, but not sin also, which is the death of the soul; let him be anathema:–whereas he contradicts the apostle who says; By one man sin entered into the world, and by sin death, and so death passed upon all men, in whom all have sinned.”

      Catechism of Trent:

      “Wherefore, the pastor should not omit to remind the faithful that the guilt and punishment of original sin were not confined to Adam, but justly descended from him, as from their source and cause, to all posterity.”

      The various creatures, human and natural, are like unto ministers used by God to inflict punishment for him, in this world and the next. God deliberately and intentionally permits a tsunami flood to kill hundreds of thousands of people – including infants – because they deserve to suffer and die for the guilt of original sin.

      So, infants have the guilt of original sin as their own and are due “death and the punishment of the body” as a result. Indeed, God has evidently chosen to subject infants to many of the sufferings, torments and tortures of the present world that are due to that sin. To now refine our analogy for the punishment of unbaptized infants in hellfire: infants are not spared fire in this life or the painful anguish of the senses that it is wont to sharply invoke. Many infants have been scolded, burnt to death, maimed. Their anguished cries have made clear their dreadful agony. The fiery torments of infants have been enacted countless times and continue to be daily, right in the United States.

      ‘A baby or toddler under age five dies nearly every day in a residential fire,’ said Homeland Security Under Secretary Michael D. Brown. ‘These young children have a disproportionately higher risk of fire death than the rest of the population. They depend on their parents and caregivers to keep them safe, to prevent residential fires from starting, and to increase the chances that the entire family can escape a fire quickly and safely. From 1989 through 1998, U.S. children younger than age five were twice as likely as the rest of the population to die in a residential fire; in that decade 5,712 children died in fires in this country, according to the U.S. Fire Administration, part of FEMA and the initiator of the campaign.’ (Marinwood Fire Department, August 27, 2003)

      If the forcefulness of the men of Sodom afforded brimstone and fire, it is clear that being born of chaste marriage affords no less. It would be Pelagian to deny that infants are conceived meriting the punishment of the body that is due to the posterity of Adam. The infants are getting what they deserve.

      Thus it will be of no great surprise to learn that damned infants are engulfed in the fires of eternity. Countless billions of infants depart without baptism and are cast screaming into the furnace.

      We shall now present the magisterial texts in which it was defined that unbaptized infants have the punishment of FIRE IN HELL.

      The definition of Carthage XVI that there is no place anywhere of rest and happiness and that infants are punished in the fire

      The canons of Carthage XVI are considered to be infallible by Roman Catholic theologians because Pope St. Innocent (-417) and Pope St. Zosimus (-418) approved of them as a rule of the faith.

      The canons include the following.

      “It has been decided likewise that if anyone says that for this reason the Lord said: “In my house there are many mansions”: that it might be understood that in the kingdom of heaven there will be some middle place or some place anywhere where happy infants live who departed from this life without baptism, without which they cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven, which is life eternal, let him be anathema. For when the Lord says: “Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he shall not enter into the kingdom of God” [John 3:5], what Catholic will doubt that he will be a partner of the devil who has not deserved to be a coheir of Christ? For he who lacks the right part will without doubt run into the left [cf. Matthew. 25:41,46].”

      The canon was written by St. Augustine who was present at the council and condemns the doctrine of the Pelagians regarding the fate of unbaptized infants. It also defines his own doctrine about their fate, as the true doctrine of the Catholic Faith.

      Patrick J. Toner in his article on Limbo in the Catholic Encyclopedia of 1910 admits that the Fathers of Carthage condemned the “Pelagian teaching affirming the existence of ‘an intermediate place, or of any place anywhere at all (ullus alicubi locus), in which children who pass out of this life unbaptized live in happiness.’” He further admits that the canon means that “unbaptized infants share in the common positive misery of the damned”.

  17. I’m a former Catholic however now I consider myself a “spiritual” person. I believe in a higher power that is way beyond our comprehension. A power that cannot be LIMITED by concepts constructed by man – be they christian, jew, muslim, or whatever.

  18. Jesus died for all sin, even original sin. And no baptism does not wash original sin nor any other sin from our souls.

  19. as a catholic i still beleive that infants still go to heaven. why? everyone should remember that jesus is the high priest of the catholic church.so as god and high priest we should not speculate that jesus cannot act on this matter of unbaptized children.in fact i have read some church activities being performed by jesus directly as seen by msytics.baptizing children is one of those things that jesus have already done.

  20. This is all very interesting… In the Islamic faith, we believe quite the opposite! We believe that all babies are born pure and sinless, and go to heaven when they die no matter which religion they are born into. Children only become accountable for their actions and start accumulating sins when they reach puberty.

  21. It’s a pity that hard hearted men would lay such claims at the feet of our benevolent God. Would a God of loving-kindness and tender mercies, towards sinful men who had no merit to deserve such grace, ever send an infant, or any child, to so foul a place as hell, which was reserved first for the angels who rebelled against God’s kingdom, and then for the men and women who rejected His Christ? It not only defies reason, but the heart of compassion rebels against it, and the Holy Spirit bears witness against it.

    Recall that Jesus said, “suffer the little children to come to me.”

    Christ’s ransom upon the cross paid for your sins, and for my sins, and the sins for all the world — but those who willfully refuse Christ are fit for only one destination — hell.

    Those who receive Christ, though we have sinned and been rebels at times, we are born again, made new creatures in Christ, a part of a holy priesthood, joint-heirs to the kingdom of God. The blood of Christ has covered our sins, and we are in Christ, and Christ in us.

    Little children occupy a special place in God’s heart. Recall that we are told that if we would see the kingdom of heaven we must become, how? We must become as little children! They don’t need to become as we are… sinners saved by grace, but we need to become as they are — the beloved and blameless children of God, who know only heaven as their future home.

  22. Danielmary Ridan

    Sir Jon, I have read your articles concerning limbo and purgatory. Please I dont know if it pleases you for me to do an extract in the article and put them into writting, all my own is to see that i take the church to the highest level. Am By name bro. Daniel of age 16. Please looking forward for your reply sir

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