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[quote:1ileqsx1] Concerning Purgatory, the Orthodox do have prayers for the departed, and they do believe in a particular judgment–a foretaste of blessedness or torment before the Final Judgment. However, having said that, we don’t believe that this judgment is a particular place. Catholics teach that after forgiveness, one has to serve a temporal punishment, and should they die without having served it, they have to serve time in purgatory before going to heaven. In the Middle Ages, this temporal punishment was abused as it was suggested it could be expiated by a gift of the Church, an indulgence. Orthodox believe that when you are forgiven, you are forgiven–there are no sub-clauses or residual debts. The penance you do is to retrain the soul’s humility, but it’s not to give satisfaction. God is good to forgive our sins if we confess them. The Orthodox Church cites St. Paul, who prays for the departed Onesiphorus, saying “The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day” (2nd Timothy 1:1Cool. St. Paul never mentions purgatorial fire, legalistic justifications, but offers prayers for God’s mercy, which is what the Orthodox believe and practice.[/quote:1ileqsx1]
If there is no punishment for sin, Why did Daniel get punsihed even after he repented of hsi terrible deed?
There is punishment for sin. “For the wages of sin is Death” Having said that, “For ALL have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.”
Thankfully He came to earth and died for our sins. Taking the sins of the world on His shoulders and paying the debt we could never pay. That is why I believe that there is no levels of forgivness. I believe its one or the other, you are a. Saved or b. Not. This is not to say that God doesnt punish people on earth for their sins, but I do not believe that there is a set place to pay the rest of their due punishment as God forgave them just as much as He did you or I. Its simply in the eye of the beholder to choose wether they accept this wonderfull gift.Siberian
The wages of sin is death, certainly, but in 1 John 5: 17, John says “All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is [i:1cgjqrxa]not deadly[/i:1cgjqrxa]”
In revelation we are told nothing unclean will enter Heaven. So I ask you, Siberian: What happens to those who have undeadly sin on their souls who die? Do they go to Hell even though the sin is not deadly? They certainly can’t go to Heaven because nothing unclean shall enter it.
So I ask you where they go.
Also, read 1 Corinthians 3: 15. I think you will find it enlightening.
Either way, my point about Daniel having to pay for his sin even though he had been forgiven is this: Even once God forgave his sins, he [i:1cgjqrxa]still had to suffer for them[/i:1cgjqrxa]. Even if our sins are forgiven, we may still have temporal punishment left to pay.
There’s a pretty good article on this somewhere…hmmm…let me think…oh yeah: http://www.aboutcatholics.com/life_in_c … purgatory/
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[quote:29tdixvw]
Either way, my point about Daniel having to pay for his sin even though he had been forgiven is this: Even once God forgave his sins, he [i:29tdixvw]still had to suffer for them[/i:29tdixvw]. Even if our sins are forgiven, we may still have temporal punishment left to pay.[/quote:29tdixvw]
That sounds a lot like the concept of “karma” that I see on the Yogananda boards.
So? I don’t care where else you might think it resembles. It is what the Bible says.
[quote:y1c3obvr]So? I don’t care where else you might think it resembles. It is what the Bible says.[/quote:y1c3obvr]
I’m sorry Uncertaindrummer. I did not mean to offend you in my reply. I was just surprised with the similarities and never heard it stated like that by a Christain.
” title=”Confused” /> Interesting………
GEEZ!!! People think I get offended so easily! I was not offended! I have enjoyed the discussion…
Sorry if I [i:27exjftd]seemed[/i:27exjftd] to be offended, lol!
I’m truly happy that I did not offend you. That is not a reason I would want to come to a board like this. It is often difficult to know how someone’s emotions are when they reply. That is why I like to use the “Emoticons” on the left.
” title=”Very Happy” />May God bless you.
Yeah, ok. From now on let’s read our posts [b:1jlc58ia]before[/b:1jlc58ia] we hit the submit button (that’s why there is a preview button) from the other person’s perspective so that a clear, respecting message is communicated.
” title=”Smile” />Thanks.
Hmm… I try to do that.
And yet people STILL seem to think I am offended. I guess you guys jsut don’t understand how easy-going of a guy I am… lol
Well,
[quote:ukgbf954]So? I don’t care where else you might think it resembles.[/quote:ukgbf954]
conveys a snippy attitude and since people don’t know us personally, we all have to be a little more careful in our choice of words on an internet forum.” title=”Smile” />
[quote:1lkzqoqd] Concerning Purgatory, the Orthodox do have prayers for the departed, and they do believe in a particular judgment–a foretaste of blessedness or torment before the Final Judgment. However, having said that, we don’t believe that this judgment is a particular place. Catholics teach that after forgiveness, one has to serve a temporal punishment, and should they die without having served it, they have to serve time in purgatory before going to heaven. In the Middle Ages, this temporal punishment was abused as it was suggested it could be expiated by a gift of the Church, an indulgence. Orthodox believe that when you are forgiven, you are forgiven–there are no sub-clauses or residual debts. The penance you do is to retrain the soul’s humility, but it’s not to give satisfaction. God is good to forgive our sins if we confess them. The Orthodox Church cites St. Paul, who prays for the departed Onesiphorus, saying “The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day” (2nd Timothy 1:1Cool. St. Paul never mentions purgatorial fire, legalistic justifications, but offers prayers for God’s mercy, which is what the Orthodox believe and practice.[/quote:1lkzqoqd]
[quote:1xzglakr]Instead of copying other websites (even though it may be your own) why not just link to it?[/quote:1xzglakr]
Oh really, thanks for the advice…..
Hmmm… to try and keep this from getting too nasty, I will use a quote I heard a while back that describes purgatory beautifully:
“Purgatory is where God’s jsutice and God’s mercy meet”.
It makes so much sense.
[quote:2j68uhw1][quote:2j68uhw1] Concerning Purgatory, the Orthodox do have prayers for the departed, and they do believe in a particular judgment–a foretaste of blessedness or torment before the Final Judgment. However, having said that, we don’t believe that this judgment is a particular place. Catholics teach that after forgiveness, one has to serve a temporal punishment, and should they die without having served it, they have to serve time in purgatory before going to heaven. In the Middle Ages, this temporal punishment was abused as it was suggested it could be expiated by a gift of the Church, an indulgence. Orthodox believe that when you are forgiven, you are forgiven–there are no sub-clauses or residual debts. The penance you do is to retrain the soul’s humility, but it’s not to give satisfaction. God is good to forgive our sins if we confess them. The Orthodox Church cites St. Paul, who prays for the departed Onesiphorus, saying “The Lord grant to him that he may find mercy from the Lord in that Day” (2nd Timothy 1:1Cool. St. Paul never mentions purgatorial fire, legalistic justifications, but offers prayers for God’s mercy, which is what the Orthodox believe and practice.[/quote:2j68uhw1]
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/sh … hp?t=13415[/quote:2j68uhw1]
SOGFPP,
Thank you for posting that web address.
IDF,
Ardent Listener
Surprise, surprise…I don’t believe in purgatory. I don’t believe in a juridical understanding of salvation, which is the only framework in which I can make the concept of purgatory even make sense. Sorry.
The Orthodox doctrine of salvation is known as [i:1p17apod]theosis[/i:1p17apod], which is a process of becoming one with God – by grace, but not in essence, we can become what He is. This leads us to concepts of heaven and hell that are quite different to the traditional western ones and which leave no room for purgatory.
In my belief, God is loving and all-forgiving – He simply does not punish us for minor wrongdoings that we might have had no opportunity to repent of while alive. Our prayers for the dead are prayers that they might be one with God, not that their stay in purgatory might be shortened.
I’m happy to discuss this further if people want to.
James
If one dies with a venial sin on their soul, how does one get into Heaven?
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” title=”Confused” /> Interesting………
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