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- This topic has 1 reply, 6 voices, and was last updated 18 years, 11 months ago by Anonymous.
July 24, 2004 at 6:59 pm #3159AnonymousInactive
The biggest deficiency in the pro-choice use of “freedom of conscience” is that they do not understand what it means or how it is exercised. In order to justify an action by freedom of conscience, one must first correctly form his conscience. In any matter which the Church has addressed in the manner it has abortion, there is no freedom of conscience to countermand the decrees of God through the Church because the conscience (God’s little voice) can never advise something in direct opposition to the Church’s teaching (God’s big voice).July 25, 2004 at 5:43 pm #3173AnonymousInactive
[quote:1qu0wu4d]The biggest deficiency in the pro-choice use of “freedom of conscience” is that they do not understand what it means or how it is exercised. In order to justify an action by freedom of conscience, one must first correctly form his conscience. In any matter which the Church has addressed in the manner it has abortion, there is no freedom of conscience to countermand the decrees of God through the Church because the conscience (God’s little voice) can never advise something in direct opposition to the Church’s teaching (God’s big voice).[/quote:1qu0wu4d]
well saidSeptember 29, 2004 at 5:55 pm #3395AnonymousInactive
[quote:5zfzqciu]I agree with you about the human life issue- I believe that at the moment of conception, a life has been formed. And I ask myself, and I’m sure others do to.. if you believe that a life has been formed at conception, why are you pro-choice?
I think I have misrepresented myself here. I am upset about the Bishops decision to deny me and many others like me communion. I see where people are coming from, I believe I really do. I’m not defending abortion and I would never chose it.
God gives us many choices. My choice is to defend a womans right. My reasons for this choice are reasons some don’t agree with. I’m thinking about the huge amount of people in our society who don’t see this issue from the same light as many Catholics do. I’m thinking about the women and girls who would go to any extreme to have an abortion, whether illegal or not. No matter how unsafe. I’m thinking about the women whose lives are severly threatented by childbirth. What about in their case? Some people may not think it is a ‘right’ of a woman to make this choice, but I do.
I’m not trying to change anyones mind here, I’m just trying to explain myself a little better.
Pamela said it very well. Childbearing is a very emotional issue. In my case, it is not childbearing personally, but- anything that has to do with this-is very emotional.[/quote:5zfzqciu]
Peace be with you Jackie,
True enough God does give us the gift of “free will” that which you call choice. But there are wise ways to use this gift. If you believe that at the moment of conception life occurs then pro-choice cannot be your choice.
I don’t presume to say you are wrong for that would be judging you and I am not of authority to do so and so I must concede that you are correct in that it is between you and God. Matthew 7 1:5
“Do not judge, so that you may not be judged. 2 For with the judgment you make you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get. 3 Why do you see the speck in your neighbor’s eye, but do not notice the log in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your neighbor, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ while the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your neighbor’s eye.
But, I can offer some scripture to support what I believe to be important to this discussion.
First we all agree that life begins a conception and to murder (kill with forethought and malice) is a mortal sin Exodus 20:13
13 You shall not murder. (Or kill depending on your translation of Greek)
So to “choose ” to abort an unborn child is murder and/or killing. This is for those who “choose” to abort.
Now what about those who “choose” to support them? Matthew 5 27:30
27 “You have heard that it was said, ‘You shall not commit adultery.’ 28 But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away; it is better for you to lose one of your members than for your whole body to go into hell.
So threw you thought and support of the Pro-Choice issue you are in fact committing the abortion and Christ demonstrates above.
As to the Bishop’s statement on denial of communion well we have to see if he has the authority to do so and in a round about way John 20 21:23
21 Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, so I send you.” 22 When he had said this, he breathed on them and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”
This is how a Priest is ordained and given his authority to “tend to his flock” as it were. Further, this is where a Priest’s authority to hear and forgive sin in confession comes from.
So now that we have the whole authority issue resolved can the Bishop advice on denial of communion. Simply, yes. Not only does he have the authority to do so our Cannon and Catechism states;
” If, then, grace and truth came by Jesus Christ, they must surely be poured into the soul which receives with purity and holiness Him who said of Himself: He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me and I in him. Those who receive this Sacrament piously and fervently must, beyond all doubt, so receive the Son of God into their souls as to be ingrafted as living members on His body. For it is written: He that eateth me, the same also shall live by me; also: The bread which I will give is my flesh for the life of the world.” page 395 of the Catechism.
What this means and is key is tat you must be in a state f “Grace” when you receive communion, “Those who receive this Sacrament piously and fervently,” this means without sin. And as we both agree life begins at conception, hence to abort is to kill, a violation of God’s law and a mortal sin, and that to think it or support an act that is sinful in nature is the same as committing the sin, then we cannot be in a state of Grace to receive communion. Further more, the Bishop derives his authority in a line of succession give to the Apostles by Christ.
I hope in some way this helps to make the issue more clear. I would be glad to help in anyway possible if I can.
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