Is it all or nothing?

Home Forums All Things Catholic Is it all or nothing?

This topic contains 22 replies, has 7 voices, and was last updated by  Fred 10 years, 9 months ago.

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 23 total)
  • Author
  • #862

    Jackie O

    Lately in my local newspaper there has been a lot of publicity about the Catholic church and its views on abortion. The Bishop in my diocese has made a statment published in the Catholic newspaper in our state and my local newspapers, as well as others around my town as well, that says that Catholic Church should deny communion to those who are in support of abortion.

    Now, I have heard all of the arguements about pro choice, pro life, all of the what-ifs surrounding aborted pregnancies, women’s rights views, and many others. When it comes down to election time, and I’m on the side for pro-choice, am I ‘in defiance of our fundamental moral principles?’ Should I be denied communion?

    I am afraid that my feminine side has won out. No matter how wrong I feel abortion is, I believe a woman should be able to vote on the rights of her own body and still recieve communion at the same time.

    Frankly, I’m very discouraged that the leaders of my faith are so adamant about these views that they would go to the extent of denying me something as important as Communion.

    Is it really all or nothing?



    Yes, in that way it is all or nothing.

    James 2:10 – For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

    (Unlike many of St. Paul’s epistles, St. James is not speaking of the Mosaic Law but the 2nd of the great commandments, love your neighbor (and your unborn child) as yourself.)

    Actually, that short passage is pretty good altogether.

    [quote:1r3kle2b]If you really keep the royal law found in Scripture, “Love your neighbor as yourself,” you are doing right. But if you show favoritism, you sin and are convicted by the law as lawbreakers. For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it. For he who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” If you do not commit adultery but do commit murder, you have become a lawbreaker. Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment![/quote:1r3kle2b]


    A home owner has a right to privacy.
    However, if they are holding a person, in their home, against that person’s will, the captive person’s right trumps. in other words, the right to freedom trumps the right to privacy.

    In the same way, the Right to life, trumps the right to choose.

    This isn’t about [i:1cv09z7u]denying[/i:1cv09z7u] a woman’s right, but [i:1cv09z7u]defending[/i:1cv09z7u] the child’s more basic right.

    I am absolutely of the opinion that an informed, meditatated vote for a pro-abort candidate is a mortal sin


    Jackie O

    Thank you for responding, I appreciate your opinions.

    I understand where people are coming from when they say that pro-choice is a sin. I feel that whether or not I am pro-choice or pro-life, my decision is between me and God. God knows how I feel and the circumstances for my decision, and it is He only who truly understands because of the spiritual relationship I have with Him.

    The main reason that I feel upset about the latest discussion on this topic in the media (and the reason why I posted in the first place) is that I feel that the Bishop-or whoever, for that matter, should not make it his choice that I should be denied Communion because of my decision.


    Andres Ortiz

    Here’s something – the way Steph puts it is that it is a choice to kill. The issue for the pro-life people is that the baby is not given its proper respect in that it is a human being in a very early stage and has the right to life whereas the pro-choice people just want the woman to be able to choose if she can have an abortion or not – to kill the human living inside her.

    What the bishop is saying is that people who support the choice to kill innocent people should not be allowed communion because the Catholic faith does not believe in killing the innocent.

    Essentially a person does not have the “right” to choose to murder another because that person can no longer deal with or doesn’t want that person around. It’s just ludicrous.

    Also, no offence, but I do not understand how it is feminine to want to have the choice to kill your unborn child.



    Jackie- thank you for posting your question. You are right, that is if I read you correctly, childbearing is a very emotional issue. It is an issue so personal that many people feel it is no one else’s business but one’s own.

    In the 1970’s and 80’s I have personally known at least 3 people who had abortions. I wish again and again that I could have influenced their ‘choices’ to be different. In the cases where I spoke out, in love, that this was definitely not good with our God the persons thought that I was judging them and not compassionate with them. You are correct-only God can judge what is in a person’s heart. The point that most pro-life people try to make however is that God not only [i:1k2dt2ke]can [/i:1k2dt2ke]He [i:1k2dt2ke]will[/i:1k2dt2ke]judge. I saw a t-shirt this weekend, it said,”Friends don’t let friends go to hell’. As much as the slogan trys to be clever it does express why Christians don’t always ‘mind their own business’

    Choosing to abort life is a very very personal choice. It is a personal choice that affects more that one person. As you can see by my talk above about the 70’s and 80’s persons who make a choice to kill affect more than one person (themselves) for a long long time to come.

    It is very possible that our Creator has sent us someone to help us solve this reproductive dilemna, just as He may have sent us the persons to solve the AIDs epidemic, or the terrorist problem. What is frightening is the thought that God indeed does send help—-but in relying on our own intelligence we may have destroyed those who could save us while they were yet in their mother’s womb.


    doesn’t exist because no [i:3le6slst]right[/i:3le6slst] can exist that denies a fundamental basic right of another human. The only issue here is whether the baby is [i:3le6slst]a life[/i:3le6slst]. Since people, through modern technology, have found it more and more difficult to deny that it is, they have tried to reframe the conversation.

    Since a baby is a human life, it’s right’s are (to use the words of our founder’s) inalienable- that is, cannot be denied.

    It matters not if the child is 2 months before birth or 2 months after birth.


    Jackie O

    I agree with you about the human life issue- I believe that at the moment of conception, a life has been formed. And I ask myself, and I’m sure others do to.. if you believe that a life has been formed at conception, why are you pro-choice?

    I think I have misrepresented myself here. I am upset about the Bishops decision to deny me and many others like me communion. I see where people are coming from, I believe I really do. I’m not defending abortion and I would never chose it.

    God gives us many choices. My choice is to defend a womans right. My reasons for this choice are reasons some don’t agree with. I’m thinking about the huge amount of people in our society who don’t see this issue from the same light as many Catholics do. I’m thinking about the women and girls who would go to any extreme to have an abortion, whether illegal or not. No matter how unsafe. I’m thinking about the women whose lives are severly threatented by childbirth. What about in their case? Some people may not think it is a ‘right’ of a woman to make this choice, but I do.

    I’m not trying to change anyones mind here, I’m just trying to explain myself a little better.

    Pamela said it very well. Childbearing is a very emotional issue. In my case, it is not childbearing personally, but- anything that has to do with this-is very emotional.



    I have thought about that before and I came to this:

    Those women we worry about are going to do something whether abortion is legal or not. There are hundreds or thousands more who will be swayed to the wrong choice if abortion is legal. We owe it to both kinds of women to save lives and help them however we can.


    Andres Ortiz

    Thanks for the clarification, Jackie <img src=” title=”Smile” />

    [quote:10g11yhe]I have thought about that before and I came to this:

    Those women we worry about are going to do something whether abortion is legal or not. There are hundreds or thousands more who will be swayed to the wrong choice if abortion is legal. We owe it to both kinds of women to save lives and help them however we can.[/quote:10g11yhe]

    So then what is your solution?



    I vote against abortion and I support groups that help mothers who feel like they have no other option (like Feminists for Life). I also work against the appearance of the women’s center at my college because every poster I have seen there supports abortion but there are no posters supporting groups who help young mothers in other ways (although I do believe the information is available). I even left several such posters in the suggestion box and none of them were displayed.


    Andres Ortiz

    That’s kind of like Planned Parenthood – they have other material available, but they are so well-known for abortions and promoting abortion that not too many know of their other family planning stuff.

    Speaking of feminists, isn’t feminism essentially standing up for those that are marginalized or don’t have a voice? So, by definition, wouldn’t it be feminist to be pro-life?


    Padre Pio was famous for many miracles.

    Once, a woman in the cofessional, was repetedly pressed by this devout, holy man that she hadn’t confessed all her sins….

    after she repeatedly was unable to recount, he asks her to close her eyes and tell him what she saw….

    She claimed to see a Pope dressed in white….
    yes, he stated, that was to be your son…the one you aborted.

    Only God knows the destiny of each child. A woman can [b:3bgd9eaf]never[/b:3bgd9eaf] have the right to choose to murder her son.
    This is not a lack of compassion for a potential mother’s difficulties but a basic defense of the most defensless.



    Jon – That is what Feminists for Life preaches. It is a crime against women to tolerate, let alone promote, the crime of abortion.


    Andres Ortiz

    Anyone have a good link or something to what the Vatican has said about abortion and communion?


    Andres Ortiz

    The Vatican has said nothing last I heard.



    I heard that Cardinals Ratzinger and Arinze both made statements backing the decision by US Bishops to deny communion to pro-abortion politicians.


    Andres Ortiz

    They may have said something as individuals, but they do not comprise “The Vatican” in terms of making a statement.



    Thank you for bringing up Feminists for Life.,

    I like what they say: Women deserve a better choice than abortion. The mission statement at the beginning of the site quotes pro-life words of Susan B. Anthony.

    The site is like this one

    you don’t have to read it all at once to learn something—-instead it is a welcome and informative diversion no matter when or how much time you have to read it.

    Thanks for bringing it up.

    BTW-the FFL movement onto our campuses seems to be a real good thing.


    Andres Ortiz

    I guess I just want to add something else to this discussion.

    I understand and recognize (as does the Catholic Church) the freedom of conscience and the free will that God gave us which is what I think some pro-choice people are trying to say (that God gave us free will so we should be able to use it).

    However, in regard to abortion, if you are Catholic and you believe that life starts at conception then an abortion would be murder. Neither the law nor our Catholic faith permits murder of a non-aggressive person (like if the person was threatening your life in a violent way).

Viewing 20 posts - 1 through 20 (of 23 total)

You must be logged in to reply to this topic.