Infant Baptism discussion

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This topic contains 5 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Joxios 3 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #676

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    Share your thoughts about Why Infant Baptism http://www.aboutcatholics.com/beliefs/why-infant-baptism/

    #9239

    werasm
    Member

    Hi, I’ve read the article. In general I can agree, but one of the things bothering me is the use of the scripture:

    John 3:5:

    “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” [KJ]

    The author states that “This clearly refers to baptism”.

    I don’t understand the scripture in that way – to me, clearly this refers to birth and not “Infant Baptism”, for all are borne of water, but not all are of spirit. The other tidbits about the history of infant baptism is certainly interesting, but we read John 3:5 differently. If the Catholic church’s basis for infant baptism is John 3:5, then it does not seem so clear to me anymore. On the other hand, I have to admit that the bible does not anywhere condemn infant baptism.

    With all respect.

    Werner

    #9248

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    Thank you for your thoughtful response. I should probably update many of the articles on the website so they are more comprehensive. Infant baptism stems primarily from custom, it is not based solely in Scripture.

    This is the thing with printed word – people can read it any number of ways and get several different meanings from it. As such, we have hundreds of different denominations running around claiming variances on the same subjects. Fortunately, we can trace the Catholic Church back to the Apostles, which, to me, suggests it can more faithfully interpret the Scriptures.

    #10169

    Resurrecting this thread
    John 3:5:

    “Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” [KJ]

    The author states that “This clearly refers to baptism”.

    I don’t understand the scripture in that way – to me, clearly this refers to birth and not “Infant Baptism”, for all are borne of water, but not all are of spirit.

    I have heard this many times. If it is referring to the amniotic fluid, then Jesus’ words would have no meaning whatsoever and everybody from the cannibals in New Guinea to the natives in the Amazon would automatically be considered “born again” since I don’t know of any case where a mother carried a baby in her womb and there was no “water”.

    The thing is that in the early days of the Church, infant baptism was the norm. No need here to quote the ECF’s as there are tons of quotes. But no where do we find the Church condemning infant baptism. The only question was as to how early the newborn should be baptized. Also in the bible it speaks about “all in the household” being baptized and never does it state “except infants” and it would be ludicrous to say that simply because the words “Baptize infants” does not appear in the bible, that “all in household” didn’t include them. Remember back then, more than one family lived in a household and they sure didn’t practice the one household one child policy.

    #10170

    [quote:1mjx0c8g]Fortunately, we can trace the Catholic Church back to the Apostles, which, to me, suggests it can more faithfully interpret the Scriptures.[/quote:1mjx0c8g]
    Definitely… Here is what St. Augustine had to say about this with emphasis mine [quote:1mjx0c8g]”What the universal Church holds, [b:1mjx0c8g]not as instituted [invented] by councils[/b:1mjx0c8g] but as something always held, [b:1mjx0c8g]is most correctly believed to have been handed down by apostolic authority[/b:1mjx0c8g]. Since others respond for children, so that the celebration of the sacrament may be complete for them, it is certainly availing to them for their consecration, because they themselves are not able to respond”[/quote:1mjx0c8g]

    #10314

    Joxios
    Member
    "AboutCatholics":4qjx9wov wrote:
    Share your thoughts about [b:4qjx9wov]Why Infant Baptism?[/b:4qjx9wov]

    [quote:4qjx9wov][url:4qjx9wov]http://www.aboutcatholics.com/viewpage.php?story=51[/url:4qjx9wov][/quote:4qjx9wov]
    [/quote:4qjx9wov]
    Hello,
    This URL no longer available! then I noticed this post was from 2003!

    As far as baptism:

    Why not? why delay?

    [u:4qjx9wov]Act 16:33[/u:4qjx9wov] And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their wounds, and [b:4qjx9wov]he was baptized at once, with all his family[/b:4qjx9wov].

    [u:4qjx9wov]Act 8:36[/u:4qjx9wov] And as they went along the road they came to some water, and the eunuch said, “[b:4qjx9wov]See, here is water! What is to prevent my being baptized?[/b:4qjx9wov]

    Water is essential for life.

    Before we are formed in the womb God knows us Jer 1:5,

    As the Hebrews welcomed their 8 day old sons into the nation of Israel.. so do we through baptism welcome our children into the body of Christ and his Church. We both are called to raise our children in the faith:

    Deu 6:7 ‘and you shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.”

    1Ti 4:11 Command and teach these things.

    2Ti 2:2 and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

    As far as amniotic fluid, [Post by TCWITPAFOT1T315] there’s nothing pure about that!

    Baptism is the ‘cleansing water’ of rebirth, by the power of the living Word.

    Water is symbolic of the Holy Spirit, the rock of Horeb supplied “living water” a symbol of God’s Divine help and spirit.

    The hebrews of Jesus day took baptism very seriously Jhn 1:24,25

    The prophets had already described the Spirit in terms of water in their promises concerning the last days. and Jesus takes up this image – in this case not one of immersion by stepping into water but rather water being poured onto people:

    Eze 39:29, Isa 44:3

    Jesus is the Lord of Water exercised by His Divine power over Water.
    His voice is like the sound of many waters.

    Jhn 7:38- 39 “He who believes in me, as the scripture has said, ‘Out of his heart shall flow rivers of living water.'”
    Now this he said about the Spirit, which those who believed in him were to receive; ..”

    In the celebration of baptism, the parents, god- parents, the congregation al publicly ask for the Child to be baptized.

    After baptism it is the the responsibility of the parents to assist the child to know God, whose adopted Child he/ she has become.

    it is the duty of he priest to prepare families for the baptism of the Child.

    My guess is that protestants outside of Lutheranism, believe Justification is granted to all who have faith, and baptism is a profession of that faith.

    Whereas there are biblical instances where children have been healed by the faith of the parents or head of household Matt 15:28; Mark 8;13;

    God bless,
    John

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