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Benedict this is my Bible dictionary definition for justification:
The process by which sinful human beings are made acceptable to a holy God.
Justification by Grace. Christianity is unique because of its teaching of justification by grace <Rom. 3:24>. Justification is God’s declaration that the demands of His Law have been fulfilled in the righteousness of His Son. The basis for this justification is the death of Christ. Paul tells us that “God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not imputing their trespasses to them” <2 Cor. 5:19>. This reconciliation covers all sin: “For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified” <Heb. 10:14>. Justification, then, is based on the work of Christ, accomplished through His blood <Rom. 5:9> and brought to His people through His resurrection <Rom. 4:25>.
When God justifies, He charges the sin of man to Christ and credits the righteousness of Christ to the believer <2 Cor. 5:21>. Thus, “through one Man’s righteous act, the free gift came to all men, resulting in justification of life” <Rom. 5:18>. Because this righteousness is “the righteousness of God” which is “apart from the law” <Rom. 3:21>, it is thorough; a believer is “justified from all things” <Acts 13:39>. God is “just” because His holy standard of perfect righteousness has been fulfilled in Christ, and He is the “justifier,” because this righteousness is freely given to the believer <Rom. 3:26; 5:16>.
Justification by Faith. Although the Lord Jesus has paid the price for our justification, it is through our faith that He is received and His righteousness is experienced and enjoyed <Rom. 3:25-30>. Faith is considered righteousness <Rom. 4:3,9>, not as the work of man <Rom. 4:5>, but as the gift and work of God <John 6:28-29; Phil. 1:29>.
The New Testament sometimes seems to speak of justification by works. For example, Jesus spoke of justification (and condemnation) “by your words” <Matt. 12:37>. Paul said, “the doers of the law will be justified” <Rom. 2:13>. And James concluded that “a man is justified by works, and not by faith only” <James 2:24>.
These statements seem to conflict with Paul’s many warnings that “by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight” <Rom. 3:20>, and that the attempt to be justified through law is equivalent to being “estranged from Christ” and “fallen from grace” <Gal. 5:4>.
The solution to this problem lies in the distinction between the works of the flesh and the fruit of the Spirit <Gal. 5:16-25>. Not only is Christ’s righteousness legally accounted to the believer, but Christ also dwells in the believer through the Holy Spirit <Rom. 8:10>, creating works of faith <Eph. 2:10>. Certainly God’s works may be declared righteous <Is. 26:12>. If this is true, then the order of events in justification is grace, faith, and works; or, in other words, by grace, through faith, resulting in works <Eph. 2:8-10>.
The Results of Justification. The negative result of justification is what we are saved from: “Having now been justified… we shall be saved from wrath” <Rom. 5:9>. The positive result is what we are saved to: “Whom He justified, these He also glorified” <Rom. 8:30>.
Paul also notes “peace with God” <Rom. 5:1> and access to God’s grace <Rom. 5:2> as positive benefits. The believer in Christ may look forward to the redemption of his body <Rom. 8:23> and an eternal inheritance <Rom. 8:17; 1 Pet. 1:4>.
(from Nelson’s Illustrated Bible Dictionary)
(Copyright (C) 1986, Thomas Nelson Publishers)
As you can see, I do not stand only upon my thoughts but before the thoughts comes resources that a person can depend upon for reliability- truthful, neutral reliability not biase opinions.
[quote:3upoozvt]I was not talking out both sides of my mouth, Ron. Just because we will be beset by sin does not mean we do not possess the means to overcome it. Temptation abounds in our damaged world but in the resurrection and the new heaven and earth there will be none. My statements are in harmony. [/quote:3upoozvt]
what kind of answer is that? You haven’t made it there yet, we are still considering how one gets there first!
Irrelevant quotes. These verses address idolatry. Praying for the dead is, as I have already mentioned, praying to God on their behalf. [/quote:3upoozvt]
Why are they irrelvant? If you treat them (people that have died) as if they have “god-like”abilities- isn’t that the same sin of idolatry?
[quote:3upoozvt]And this is the exact opposite of what I addressed in my earlier post. Once again, prayer to God for those who have died. [/quote:3upoozvt]
No we’re talking about your tradition of praying to people that have died- something that the Bible forbids!
[quote:3upoozvt]With an easy conscience. As we just saw above, you quoted four verses both out of context and irrelevant to my post. The last is even the exact opposite of what we were discussing. You are trying to argue against the communion of saints from Revelation 5:8 (those in heaven offering our prayers to God) when we are discussing prayer in another direction. [/quote:3upoozvt]
as I said, they are very relevant – and those in Rev. 5:8 aren’t answering or even interceding on behalf specifc prayers of those on earth aside from passing on praise and worship in this scenario
So I again ask you – Where do you get this garbage from?
Nothing imperfect can enter heaven.
We are probably not perfect when we die.
Therefore, we must be perfected sometime between dying and entering heaven[/quote:3upoozvt]
once a person dies, there is no place to get purified. The Bible states
nce to die, then judgment – and we are judged according to how we lived THAT is why when you say purgatory, you are rejecting the finished work already done at Calvary’s cross by what Jesus did, not our abilities to earn salvation.[/quote]