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November 1, 2011 at 12:11 am #10154AnonymousInactive"Yarelis":3l9upweb wrote:MEN ARE NOT PERFECT AND MEN ARE ABLE TO LIE. only god is perfect so how on earth are [u:3l9upweb]priest and bishops able to say they on unfallable … when there have been many times where unfallable men of the catholic church corrected unfallable men…. even unfallable leaders of the catholic church corrected themselves[/u:3l9upweb]. … [u:3l9upweb]a priest was asked why they do the eucharist and is it infact a sacraficing ritual… and he said that catholics would say that the eucharist infact IS the sacrafice of JESUS ON THE CALVARY.. that ITS NOT A SEPERATE SACRAFICE FROM THE ONE JESUS DID ON THE CROSS BUT ITS ACTUALLY THE SACRAFICE ITSELF[/u:3l9upweb]. (youtube: Catholicism; Crisis of Faith) I am totally scratching my head at this. this totally goes against scripture… [u:3l9upweb]jesus was the one time sacrafice and it says in the bible there was no need for anymore sacrafice … so what was said by this PRIEST is in fact incorrect… this proves he is not unfallable. For priest believe that the leaders of the church get devine answers from god and what they say goes.. they cant make mistakes…. [/u:3l9upweb]so if I were catholic i would have to believe what he just said was correct…. = / … childish[/quote:3l9upweb]
I have to take exception here to some statements made. Emphasis added.
I wrote some where else on here about the Mass or taking of the Eucharist. I will repeat what I said before:
Luke 22:19; 1 Corinthians 11:24, 25 says: “Do this in remembrance of me.” The Greek word is [i:3l9upweb]anamnesis[/i:3l9upweb] which means remembering or recollection. It also means “memory.” I recall that the Mass is a recreation of the Last Supper whereby Christ sacrifices the bread and wine and destroys it and changes it into His body and blood. He also anoints his apostles as priests. No blood is shed until the next day — Good Friday. The mass is a commemoration of these two events — the Last Supper and Crucifixion.
The only person who is infallible is the Pope when he speaks [i:3l9upweb]Ex Cathedra[/i:3l9upweb]. I do not know that priests and bishops are able to claim infallibility.
Please correct me if I am wrong, as a Catholic.November 1, 2011 at 6:32 am #10156AnonymousInactive
You bring up some good points. To expand on the idea of anmensis, and the Last Supper. People who have been here for a long time know that I was raised in a Jewish home, and my family escaped the Shoah because of the intervention of Pope Pius XII, and Cardinal Rancolli, (later Pope John XIII). As part of that intervention my grandparents and other relatives were not required or in any way encouraged to convert to the Catholic Faith, except by the example of Christ’s love. So when I was first presented with the Eucharist and the truth that it is Jesus Himself, and not just a symbol or memorial it was not at all hard to believe.
Jesus chose (and I believe that He did so for a very important reason) the feast of Passover for the insitution of the Last Supper, and for His sacrifice on the cross.
At the Seder we are taught that we are to make Anmensis, of the Exodus. Now don’t forget that at the time of Jesus, many Jews living outside of Israel did not speak much Hebrew. The situation was such that the Septuagent a Greek translation of the OT and several of the books of the OT (Tobit, Sirach, Maccabees (I and II) and a few others were originally written in Greek. At the Seder, the ritual meal eaten at Passover all Jews are taught as part of the rite that “We do not say that God did these wonders at that place, or for those people.” We are taught by the Rabbis, and Jesus and His Apostles in following the ritual understood that by participating in the rite we too should consider that we came out of the land of Egypt, that we participate in the Exodus. Now this was not a symbolic Exodus, but by participating in the Seder, by God’s power we mytically, and in a real sense must consider that we are participating in the Exodus. Anmensis is not just a recalling of a past event, but making an event present again.
So too with the Mass, God, in the second person of the Trinity makes the effects of Calvary present, and transends time to be on the altar with us. We don’t simply symbolically stand at Calvary, but Calvary and all the graces Jesus gives us are made present by Him through the ministry of His priest. The priest acts in person Christi, because Jesus works through the Ministry of the priesthood which Jesus shares with the Church by Apostolic Succession to individual priests. It is Jesus’ priesthood that He shares with us, and it is Jesus who through the ministry of His priests that supplies all the Graces that Jesus Himself imparts through those same Sacraments that He instituted.November 1, 2011 at 3:31 pm #10157AnonymousInactive
What an incredible story and thanks for the explanation. I’m sorry that events existed that took you on a journey — a journey with a happy ending.
Yes, I do understand that the Last Supper was the Passover Seder, but to hear you explain it is much clearer — making the event present again.
I was trying to unravel Yarelis’ earlier post, and it seems I got tangled up myself in semantics.
I find the many disputes over Scripture and Church teachings (Magisterium) to be puzzling and surprising. A non-denominational fundamentalist Christian said her family’s objection to Catholicism is that we believe we are saved by faith alone. I was taken aback.
I guess I have a lot to learn.
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