The Biblical assessment

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  • #8414
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    No what I want is for you to believe what the Bible really says, not the snippets that you choose out of context as the sole teaching of Christ. While Faith is an important aspect in our salvation, it is not the sole aspect as Protestantism falsely teaches. Read here from KJV James 2: 17-26, (The epistle that Luther wanted to expunge from the Bible when he tossed out the Books of the OT that spoke of prayers and sacrifices for the dead, which Jesus did not condemn.)

    [quote:7titxipv]17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.

    18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

    19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
    Gen 15:6 Rom 4:3 Gal 3:6 Isa 41:8

    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

    25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?

    26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.[/quote:7titxipv]

    Point of fact: the only time that “faith” and “alone” appear together in all of Sacred Scripture it is in James 2:24 where we are told, “man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

    While faith is very important, it is not all that Jesus said we need for salvation.

    Mt 19:16-17, Jesus says that to have life we have to keep the commandments.
    Jn 14:21, Jesus says that he who keeps my commandments loves me.
    Rom 2:2-8, Paul says that we gain eternal life by persevering in good works.
    Gal 5:4-6, Paul tells us that nothing counts except faith working through love.
    Eph 2:8-10 Paul says that we are created in Christ for good works.
    Phil 2:12-13 Paul says that he is working out his salvation through fear and trembling (not a one time done and over with event).
    And Jas 2:14-24 that I have already quoted above that specifically says that man is not justified by faith alone.

    So too the Catholic Church in agreement with the Scriptures does not hold that the works are effective when done either in a sinful state or if they are done for our own Glory, (as described with Scripture references and ignored by Ronald on prior postings)

    One of the problems I have pointed out before about Protestant “Proof Texts” is they are given as absolute proof that one misguided and false Protestant doctrine is supported by the Bible, like “Sola Fide” Each book, each chapter, each sentence in the Scriptures is not complete. But the Bible as a whole is. This is what you must look at. If the Bible says 50 times, we are saved by Faith, and mentions but once or twice that we are that Faith without works is dead, that does not mean that works are “outvoted” by more passages that do not mention them, it simply means that the entire doctrine was not fleshed out by the 50 passages. So too when the Bible mentions Faith in one passage, and the commandment to go out and baptize… This is one of the major problems with Protestant arguments and most especially with the Sola crowd. They take the Bible as their own personal playground, and ignore the big picture while searching out what they think proves their own personal opinions. If the Bible is silent on something they either imply that it forbids it, or simply skip over it. Grounded not on what St. Paul and the other Apostles taught, both in Scripture and what their desciples wrote that they where taught, but what they sixteen to twenty-one centuries think they where inspired to write, devoid of anything but their own personal pejudices.

    Now based on the Ronoldian Scripture interpretation method, lets look at more of the Holy Writ. As Ronaldo has told us in reply to the statements of Christ to the Apostles, “Whosoevers sins you forgive…”

    [quote:7titxipv]YEs you are missing something. The facts are that because He spent 3 years teaching them and they know the gospel, they can tell someone if their sins are fogiven or not based upon that individual’s beliefs – [u:7titxipv][b:7titxipv]it doesn’t say “I give you the power to forgive sins” does it!!! [/b:7titxipv][/u:7titxipv][/quote:7titxipv] (Emphasis mine)

    Applying Ronaldism to other texts lets see what they say….

    [quote:7titxipv]16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
    17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. II Tim 3: 16-17[/quote:7titxipv]

    [b:7titxipv]All Scripture is given by inspriation of God.[/b:7titxipv] Well the Catholic Church holds that to be one of the requirements to remain a Catholic in good standing.

    [b:7titxipv]and is profitable for ….. [/b:7titxipv] Does it say, is the only yardstick that you can use in defining doctrine. Does it say, if it ain’t in the Bible then God condemns it. Does it say, anything about being the only means of defining doctrine? Nope, it just says it is prophitable, (KJV) or useful in other Protestant versions. Not that it is the complete manual of all things.

    [quote:7titxipv]24 This is the disciple which testifieth of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true. 25 And there are also many other things which Jesus did, the which, if they should be written every one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that should be written. Amen.[/quote:7titxipv]

    Ronaldism still claims that all that you need is contained in the Bible, anything else is either unreliable or a lie fabricated by the Catholic Church.
    So either Jesus was doing a standup comedy routine that was not to be recorded in the Gospels, or the Epistles. Or what he said and did that is not recorded is unimportant, and should be forgotten, as when Jesus takes his disciples after his sermons to crowds and the Scriptures tell us that he instructed them further, in which case based on the “if it ain’t in Scripture it ain’t important or true” philosophy then Jesus was instructing them for no good reason. As Catholics we know that since many would misrepresent and misinterpret what Jesus said, He instructed those who would become leaders in the Church He founded, so they could clarify those things that where to later be recorded in Scripture, and to teach what both He and the Holy Ghost guided and directed them to teach.

    Since Ronoldian theology denies what Jesus said and did as illustrated by his above statement, lets give the above Scripture in it’s expanded context.

    [quote:7titxipv]
    21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.[/quote:7titxipv]

    What happened? Here we have an instance where Jesus having risen from the dead appears to the Apostles, and what does He do? He does two very Jewish things, things done when a blessing is bestowed, when priests are ordained for service in the Temple, and when authority is given. He lays hands on the Apostles, and breaths on them, signifying a transmission of some kind of authority. What does he say next. Whosoever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them.

    Now the Catholic Church claims that like the Apostles a priest is given the authority to forgive in the name of Christ Jesus, but He does not simply say, you can forgive in my name, what He says is Whosoever sins [u:7titxipv][b:7titxipv]ye remit[/b:7titxipv][/u:7titxipv]. Despite Ronalds protest that it does not say, I give you the authority, what did Christ “Say and Do” As God having the power to remit sins, He also had the power to delegate that authority to anyone He chose to. Jesus did not say, I’m the only one who will forgive sins. Once again, looking at the Bible as a whole, we see the plan of salvation unfold.

    In the Old Testament we see God is the Creator of everything. Then we see God reveals Himself to Abram, who’s name (like most men who are chosen for important offices) has his name changed to Abraham when God reveals that He alone is the God that is to be worshiped. Then it is revealed to Moses that the Priesthood of Aaron will be established, and the Tribe of Levi will play a role (the Levi and the Cohenem play important roles in the jewish priesthood. Even to this day the Decendants of the Levi give the Levitical Blessing at the end of the services in both Ashkenazi and Sephardic services. I can remember the first time I was asked to give the Levitical Blessing) We see the prophecies of Jesus and of His mother in the OT. We see that Jesus after submitting Himself to the Law, and to Mary and Joseph slowly reveals His true identity to the world, first to His closest desciples, He picks a fallible man, Simon, and like Abram of old changes his name to Kephas, (Petros in Greek, and Peter in English) from Simon to Rock. He tells His desciples to go out to the entire world, and that those who hear them, hear Him. Quite a promise if they have no authoity to speak for Him both before and after the first words of the New Testament are put to papirus and Lamb skin. We don’t see a clear and orderly list in the New Testament, but we see various teachings contained here and there throughout it, in a manner much more random than in the Book of Leviticus, or Duteronomy. Making it all the more important to read and absorb the Scriptures not in “Proof Text” nibbles, but in the context of the whole. Not as the complete manual as the only thing God revealed to us, but as a general manual of some of the most important ideas God wishes to share with us. Now I do know this does not jive with Ronaldsim, but it does with both what the Scriptures tell us, (II Tim 3: 16-17 again) and what we know about the practice and teachings of the Early Church at the time of and just after the death of the Apostles. So which I ask you is correct. What has always been held as true, or what Ronald is telling us that you must believe because he reads it that way, and tells us to ignore what has always been taught as being “what we say is so” and that he knows better?

    #8416
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    you cannot put james against the rest of the Bible as many of your apologist do Mr LARoberts but as you said we must look at the Bible not just your section. BUt we’ll look at those verses that you used to show the rest.

    Mt 19:16-17, Jesus says that to have life we have to keep the commandments.
    Jn 14:21, Jesus says that he who keeps my commandments loves me.
    Can anyone do this perfectlly ? Answer – no Romans 3:10+23 tells us there are none righteous.

    Rom 2:2-8, Paul says that we gain eternal life by persevering in good works.
    Lets see just what they say – [color=red:24u1lc7m]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 [u:24u1lc7m][b:24u1lc7m]not of works, lest anyone should boast[/b:24u1lc7m][/u:24u1lc7m]. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus [u:24u1lc7m][b:24u1lc7m]for good works[/b:24u1lc7m][/u:24u1lc7m], which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them[/color:24u1lc7m]
    Notice it says saved “not of works ” “to do god works” not to get saved by doing them?

    Gal 5:4-6, Paul tells us that nothing counts except faith working through love.
    [color=red:24u1lc7m]4 You have become estranged from Christ, [u:24u1lc7m][b:24u1lc7m]you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace.[/b:24u1lc7m][/u:24u1lc7m] 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.[/color:24u1lc7m]
    notice the underlined? even Paul says (saved By) faith (okay to do) working though love – No problem there

    Eph 2:8-10 Paul says that we are created in Christ for good works.
    as noted above – for good works not to get saved by the works

    Phil 2:12-13 Paul says that he is working out his salvation through fear and trembling (not a one time done and over with event).
    of course like James says faith without works is dead, a person
    gets saved (The one and done part -see Ephesians 1:13,14) and must have the evidence showing in His life by fighting off Satans temptations and our own flesh – nothing wrong here

    And Jas 2:14-24 that I have already quoted above that specifically says that man is not justified by faith alone.
    yet Galations 2:16 tells us -[color=red:24u1lc7m] knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law but by faith in Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we might be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law; for by the works of the law no flesh shall be justified[/color:24u1lc7m]
    Paul tells us in Romans 3:27+28 -[color=red:24u1lc7m] 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.[/color:24u1lc7m]

    can the gospel be both? No if by works then not grace if by grace not works as Romans 11:6 says

    then we’ll look for an example – the thief in the cross ad no time to get baptised or do any good works, yet he got saved and

    Romans 4:3 to 6 tells us – [color=red:24u1lc7m] 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.”[b:24u1lc7m] 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt 5 But [u:24u1lc7m]to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness[/b:24u1lc7m][/u:24u1lc7m], 6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works[/color:24u1lc7m]
    please note the highlighted part

    Well Mr LARoberts since the Biblical God has a gospel of grace – your works only reflect a believer faith – saved by faith to do good works –

    so now you know we are saved by faith (alone) in what Jesus did (alone)

    #8417

    Ron, the whole message of works of the law vs. faith was to help the Hebrew people see that one is not justified by simply going through the prescribed motions of the laws written in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, but that it requires a true conversion of heart to God.

    You have yet to reconcile what the book of James says with your beliefs. You only say that [quote:1ms44ggz]you cannot put james against the rest of the Bible[/quote:1ms44ggz]
    So, Ron, if James says something completely different than what you interpret the rest of the Bible to say, and the Scriptures are inerrant, and James is part of the Scriptures, then isn’t it quite possible that your interpretation of the other passages is incorrect?

    How do you reconcile the plain language of James with the rest of the Scriptures without contorting the context and the subjects of which they speak?

    #8418
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:8nnyfibm]so now you know we are saved by faith (alone) in what Jesus did (alone)[/quote:8nnyfibm]

    Alone added to the Bible by Ron.

    James always a problem for Protestants who wish it would just go away.

    #8420
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I’ explained it as in Ephesians 2:8+9 then verse ten comes naturally

    Verses 8 + 9 says – [color=red:u7lp274d]For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. [/color:u7lp274d]

    Verse 10 then says: [color=red:u7lp274d]For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them [/color:u7lp274d]

    No twisting of any Scriptures, just quoting them. Note it says to do good works nothing about getting saved by them here or in Titus 2:14 [color=red:u7lp274d]who gave Himself for us, that [u:u7lp274d][b:u7lp274d]He might redeem us [/b:u7lp274d][/u:u7lp274d]from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, [u:u7lp274d][b:u7lp274d]zealous for good works.[/[/b:u7lp274d][/u:u7lp274d]color]

    [u:u7lp274d][i:u7lp274d][b:u7lp274d] How do you explain Scriptures being a Gospel of grace but then saying you can work for it?[/b:u7lp274d][/i:u7lp274d][/u:u7lp274d] When Romans 11;6 tells us – And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work[/color:u7lp274d].
    and it is even illustrated shortly before in Romans 9:30-32 – 30 [color=red:u7lp274d]What shall we say then? That Gentiles, who did not pursue righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness of faith; 31 but Israel, pursuing the law of righteousness, has not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Why? Because they did not seek it by faith, but as it were, by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumbling stone[/color:u7lp274d]
    and verses Romans 10:2 +4- 2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and seeking to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted to the righteousness of God. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes
    and as Romans 4:3 explains – [color=red:u7lp274d]3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.” 4 Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt.[/color:u7lp274d]

    Note Mr LARoberts I just quoted each verse? so much for your garbage of
    [quote:u7lp274d]Alone added to the Bible by Ron.

    James always a problem for Protestants who wish it would just go away.[/quote:u7lp274d]
    [b:u7lp274d]No problem[/b:u7lp274d] -the words were added for your benefit

    And now Jon – you must explain your own point of
    [quote:u7lp274d]How do you reconcile the plain language of James with the rest of the Scriptures without contorting the context and the subjects of which they speak?[/quote:u7lp274d]

    #8421
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:vgcwgy1e]No problem -the words were added for your benefit [/quote:vgcwgy1e]

    In typical Protestant duplicity, Ronnie has given us the same silliness that abandoning the Faith and Authority that Jesus gave to Peter as Vicar, and Shephard of His flock, and making himself, (Ron) his own Pope.

    I guess it is forbidden (by Ron) that Catholics should be able to use the same ideas exlained by Jesus to the Apostles, and that we should not be able to rely on what the Apostles taught the early Church and the Fathers, men who either 1 Heard Jesus directly, or where desciples of those men, or early desciples of them(for that would be adding to the Bible!). But it is OK for Ron to add words to the Bible, to modify it in order to make his own point, and re-define what Protestantism decided they wanted the Bible to say, 1500 years later for the benefit of stupid Catholics who could not get with the changes that Ronaldites of the world wanted the Scriptures to say. But Ronnie has told us that before that we are stupid and don’t understand what Jesus plainly told us, so I guess he being chosen to modify the Scriptures so we can now finally after all these centuries understand what it was the Jesus really wanted to say, rather than what He did say, and has been believed until Ronnie and his pals finally came along to correct the text for us.

    Well round two of Chemo today, so I’ll hopefully I’ll take a few days away from replying to the Scriptural slight of hand Ron is bound to post while I go through the cloudiness that follows a dose of the agents my doctor feels will give me more time to watch with amusement the contortions of Scripture before Ron’s eventual return to the barque of Peter. Keep grasping at straws Ronald, I need something to look forward to.

    #8423
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [b:2izygrz1]And your response is the normal rhetoric of “Ronnie bashing”

    Get over it – I answered Jon’s question plainly and biblically! [/size][/b:2izygrz1]

    #8424
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Not bashing Ronnie, but the evil errors and twisting of Scripture that will lead souls away from the Authentic teachings of Christ to the man made teachings of Protestantism. This would be a parallel to what you say when you call Catholics stupid, and duped by the Unchanging teachings of the Catholic Church handed down from Christ Jesus to the Apostles. The concern here is not making Ronnie wrong, but brining him into the light, and returning him home to true doctrine out of the tangled web of deciet that occurs when one abandons Jesus and His Church.

    #8425
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    LARoberts says:
    [quote:m0hcnfph]Not bashing Ronnie, but the evil errors and twisting of Scripture that will lead souls away from the Authentic teachings of Christ to the man made teachings of Protestantism. This would be a parallel to what you say when you call Catholics stupid, and duped by the Unchanging teachings of the Catholic Church handed down from Christ Jesus to the Apostles. The concern here is not making Ronnie wrong, but brining him into the light, and returning him home to true doctrine out of the tangled web of deciet that occurs when one abandons Jesus and His Church.[/quote:m0hcnfph]

    But who showed who the unchanged Scriptures? Just compare your post full of vial and nothing scriptural about it – They speak for themselves !!!!

    I rest my case!!! <img loading=” title=”Very Happy” />

    #8427
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I warned LARobert about the names in the other thread so I am going to give you a tip here, Ron.

    LARobert pointing out your misunderstanding and lack of understanding of Catholic teaching is not calumny. What your posts state and imply about Catholicism can be and have been shown to be objectively wrong.

    #8429
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Benedict
    you claim:
    [quote:vmj5ptqv]
    What your posts state and imply about Catholicism can be and have been shown to be objectively wrong.[/quote:vmj5ptqv]

    but nobody has yet, sure it is different then your beliefs, but mine match Scriptures as I’ve shown on that other site (about praying to the dead)

    #9577
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I am sixty six years old and have pondered the many issues all of you have touched on. I too have felt as if someone is persecuting my stronly held beliefs… and fired back trying to prove them wrong. Such is human nature and our fears of different view points that we think diminish us in some way.
    If we each stay focused on the truth in God’s word (all of God’s word) and remember that His love through the Holy Spirit and through fellow follower’s of Christ Jesus is part of our spiritual journey and growth we will be the better for it. John 10:9- I am the door: by me if any man enterin, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. It does not say that you must be a baptist, a methodist, a lutheran or a catholic… Christ says, “I am the door:” Listen to our Lord and Savior. Jesus said,I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. John 14:6. And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter, that he may abide withy you for ever; Even the Spirit of truthe; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. John 14:16-17 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembeance, whatsover I have said unto you. John14:26 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. John 4;23-24 And the spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said let their be light: and there was lightl Gensis 1;2b-3 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction. Proverbs 1:7 I guess what I am trying to say is that I believe God ahead of all of men and women’s interpretations of what he is saying to us through His word and through experiences in truth in our lives. We each have learned some things about God and Christ and His purpose and our part in that through our family’s beliefs, through our church’s beliefs (founded on others struggles, learnings,and beliefs), and through life experiences of our own, but God is the only God and no church has the right to say….Hear…!!! Here…! if you don’t believe the way we do you are surely going to hell and you are a heretic!!! We are free to say what ever we want…does that really help anyone on their journey to God? If you must know who is right…and how could their possibly more than one mortal who is right about these issuses?!!! If you don’t find out in this life, God will let you know in the next life…and you can try to argue with him…and you will not be able to block his words out with your own rendiction. I decided not to waste my time doing so…life is too short. Where ever we each are, on our spiritual journey, may God’s Holy Spirit teach us, train us, and guide us to live for Him the way He wants us to… and for each of us to leave behind any previously held beliefs, if we find that they do not match up with the whole of God’s word or just admit humbly that we just didn’t understand God’s Spirits truth at that time in our life. The Lord hath appeared of old unto me, saying, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee. Jeremiah 31:3 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, to to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ. Galatians 3:16, And if ye be Christ’s then are ye Abraham’s see, and heirs according to the promise. Galatians 3:29 May God each of us on our journey to Him.

    #9580
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    While I have no problem stating that I think, even hope that Lutherans, Methodists and others outside of formal union with the Catholic Church, are there because they truly beleive that the entire Word of God is preached there, I also have to be honest and say that I don’t believe that it is. Having been raised in a jewish home, and evaluated Christianity learning what many of the several thousand different Protestant Sects teach, it was through anti-Catholic rhetoric that I started to study the teachings of the Catholic Church.

    In the authentic teachings of the Catholic Church I found the fullness of God’s word, not an edited version. In the Catholic Church I found that the Anmensis that Jesus commanded in the Last Supper does take place, and in Protestantism I found a His words to be questioned, and watered down. It is for that reason that while I can pray with and for my Protestant brothers, that they may one day enter into a full relationship with Jesus, and have richer life with Him that I can’t endorse all sects being equal with the One Church Jesus founded, and promised to remain with until the end of time. The only Church I have found that does not in it’s official Moral or Dogmatic teachings compromise with what Jesus taught is the Catholic Church. While like anywhere on earth it is composed of sinners, it has not officially taught anything contrary to scripture, which I cannot say about any other Church.

    One thing that saddens me is the misrepresentation that has been done against the Catholic Church. For instance, I have seen many a Protestant parrot anti-Catholic writers by saying the Church condemned them to hell for their beliefs. Some go so far as to quote the Anathemas that one coucil or another promulgated. They fail to understand, because they believe that their Pastor, or article they read has not misled them, that an Anathema is not a condemnation to hell, nor Has the Catholic Church ever declared or pronounced that any individual person is in hell. Calvin did, and the polemics between the various founders of Protestant Churches did against each other. But the Catholic Church has not declared anyone unsaved, or in hell. Only the belief systems they may hold. One’s salvation is dependent of God’s Grace, and the extent that we knew the truth and accepted it. For someone who misunderstands of has never heard the honest truth about the Catholic Faith, God Himself, (as with all Catholics too) will determine the state of our souls, and we seeing the truth of our lives, and God will clearly understand the Justice of His Decision.

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