Sola Scriptura

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  • #8096
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [color=red:a9psze5b]We do it once a month so that it doesn’t become just a meaningless ritual [/color:a9psze5b](YOUR QUOTE)

    :cry:[color=blue:a9psze5b] Ron,I really feel sad for you if you think celebrating the Eucharist daily or weekly is “meaningless” the ONLY reason to go to Church is to receive the Body and Blood of Christ. I don’t know or care what you do at your “worship” service,but if you don’t receive the Eucharist your missing the whole idea of the meeting.I will keep you in my prayers and hope you repent and see the true meaning of going to Church.[/color:a9psze5b]

    #8100
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Mr. Weathers

    [quote:3a8prt1p]
    Ron,I really feel sad for you if you think celebrating the Eucharist daily or weekly is “meaningless” the ONLY reason to go to Church is to receive the Body and Blood of Christ. I don’t know or care what you do at your “worship” service,but if you don’t receive the Eucharist your missing the whole idea of the meeting.I will keep you in my prayers and hope you repent and see the true meaning of going to Church.[/quote:3a8prt1p]

    The eucharist points back as a memorial to the only important achievement that matters – Jesus crucifixction – which means nothing to you because you believe in Purgatory and sacramental cleansing so don’t pray for me, I’m saved already – you are in need of salvation and by repenting of your foolish beliefs would be a good start!

    #8108
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:3urraawr]Here is my article on Sola Scriptura:

    Gospel Light Ministries

    Article #43 – Sola Scriptura is indeed Biblical [/quote:3urraawr]

    Sola Scriptura is a man-made myth of Luther….as he lacked a teaching authority.

    Ron, the first thing that you need to do is obtain a copy of the Bible. The Bible is a Catholic book…..we wrote it, and we defined it. It was defined by the Decree of Pope St. Damasus I in 382 A.D., and it includes the deutercanonicals.

    Read the following….it summarizes the fallacy of the fabrication of Sola Scriptura:

    [b:3urraawr]Scripture Alone? Is Half the Story Sufficient?[/b:3urraawr][url:3urraawr]http://www.call2holiness.org/ScriptureAlone/ScriptureAlone.htm[/url:3urraawr]

    (Please read the footnotes in the writing above as well. I am referring to the one about 2 Tim. 3:16-17 in particular.)

    Protestants would have us believe that Holy Scripture represents 100% of the Faith. We are supposed to believe that Catholic Tradition is false because they claim that it is not Scriptural, but when it comes to Sola Scriptura it is acceptable that Sola Scriptura can not be found anywhere within Holy Scripture? That is, Sola Scriptura is non-Scriptural…..but that is acceptable, because it makes them feel good. If it feels good, it must be true; if it feels bad, it must be false.

    And then there is Sola Fides (‘Faith Alone’)………another patently false notion created by Luther. He even admitted boldly to adding the word “alone” to Romans 3:28.

    Rom 3:28 For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law.

    Further, he removed 7 books from the Bible, because they got in his way. He claimed that he was justified in removing them because a Jewish council (the Council of Jamnia) convened in 90-95 A.D. (about 60 or so years AFTER the death of Christ) removed them. The Jews removed them because they feared the rising strength of Christianity, and wanted to defeat the Church which made use of them. Protestants perpetuate this fraud to this day in their KJV. This begs the question: Are Protestants Christian, or Jewish?

    Now, Luther did both of these things in spite of the Scriptural admonitions against adding to or taking away from the Word of God…..and the Protestants continue such practice to this day:

    “Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar.” (Prov 30:5-6)

    (See also, Deu 4:2, Gal. 1:8, 2 Pet 3:15-16, Rev. 22: 18-19)

    What happened to the rule of Sola Scriptura? Seven books are removed from the Bible, and words are added in spite of the Scriptural admonitions against doing so?!

    As one can see, Protestants have no problem ignoring their fabricated Sola Scriptura when it comes to ignoring Biblical verses or complete books that make them feel uneasy. And they do not have any problem in adding words that are not there, if it makes them feel good.

    It’s all about feelings.

    It is the will of God that we seek the truth…..not comfort our feelings.

    “This is good and pleasing to God our savior, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.” (1 Timothy 2:3-4)

    Sin is defined as interference with the Will of God.

    #8110
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hello the Cub;

    You write:
    [quote:7jxwgpd0]
    Sola Scriptura is a man-made myth of Luther….as he lacked a teaching authority[/quote:7jxwgpd0].
    Sorry but you need to tell me what other book or commentary carries the
    word of God like the Bible does for there is nothing out there like the Bible – it is God’s word! Did you read my article?
    [quote:7jxwgpd0]
    Ron, the first thing that you need to do is obtain a copy of the Bible. The Bible is a Catholic book…..we wrote it, and we defined it. It was defined by the Decree of Pope St. Damasus I in 382 A.D., and it includes the deutercanonicals. [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    2 points – first I’ve got a Bible and second I’ve checked for myself what is in there, as opposed to what your church claims to be in there! Thank you!

    [quote:7jxwgpd0]Read the following….it summarizes the fallacy of the fabrication of Sola Scriptura:

    Scripture Alone? Is Half the Story Sufficient?http://www.call2holiness.org/ScriptureAlone/ScriptureAlone.htm [/quote:7jxwgpd0][quote:7jxwgpd0]
    (Please read the footnotes in the writing above as well. I am referring to the one about 2 Tim. 3:16-17 in particular.) [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    Okay I’ll read it
    [quote:7jxwgpd0]
    Protestants would have us believe that Holy Scripture represents 100% of the Faith. We are supposed to believe that Catholic Tradition is false because they claim that it is not Scriptural, but when it comes to Sola Scriptura it is acceptable that Sola Scriptura can not be found anywhere within Holy Scripture? That is, Sola Scriptura is non-Scriptural[/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    2 Timothy isn’t the only reason to believe it is Biblical to believe in Sola-Scriptura – Paul wriites in Colossians 1:25-28- [color=red:7jxwgpd0]25 of which I became a minister according to the stewardship from God which was given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God, 26 the mystery which has been hidden from ages and from generations, but now has been revealed to His saints. 27 To them God willed to make known what are the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles: which is Christ in you, the hope of glory. 28 Him we preach, warning every man and teaching every man in all wisdom, that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus[/color:7jxwgpd0]
    notice the word [u:7jxwgpd0][b:7jxwgpd0]ALL[/b:7jxwgpd0][/u:7jxwgpd0] translated all means All.

    [quote:7jxwgpd0]…..but that is acceptable, because it makes them feel good. If it feels good, it must be true; if it feels bad, it must be false. [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    such as catholicism?

    [quote:7jxwgpd0]And then there is Sola Fides (‘Faith Alone’)………another patently false notion created by Luther. He even admitted boldly to adding the word “alone” to Romans 3:28. [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    If He did it was to emphasize it so you’d see it.

    [quote:7jxwgpd0]Rom 3:28 For we hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of law. [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    so much for “works” that your church adds.

    [quote:7jxwgpd0]Further, he removed 7 books from the Bible, because they got in his way. [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    I have an article on this as well.
    Article #40 – Are the Apocrypha Books Scripture?
    perhaps you should read it.

    [quote:7jxwgpd0]He claimed that he was justified in removing them because a Jewish council (the Council of Jamnia) convened in 90-95 A.D. (about 60 or so years AFTER the death of Christ) removed them. The Jews removed them because they feared the rising strength of Christianity, and wanted to defeat the Church which made use of them. Protestants perpetuate this fraud to this day in their KJV. This begs the question: Are Protestants Christian, or Jewish? [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    No the question is who is telling the truth? It isn’t Rome.

    [quote:7jxwgpd0]Now, Luther did both of these things in spite of the Scriptural admonitions against adding to or taking away from the Word of God…..and the Protestants continue such practice to this day: [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    so say the Catholics

    [quote:7jxwgpd0]”Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar.” (Prov 30:5-6)

    (See also, Deu 4:2, Gal. 1:8, 2 Pet 3:15-16, Rev. 22: 18-19) [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    [quote:7jxwgpd0]
    What happened to the rule of Sola Scriptura? Seven books are removed from the Bible, and words are added in spite of the Scriptural admonitions against doing so?! [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    Not to mention the cutting of Scriptures as your church has done

    [quote:7jxwgpd0]As one can see, Protestants have no problem ignoring their fabricated Sola Scriptura when it comes to ignoring Biblical verses or complete books that make them feel uneasy. And they do not have any problem in adding words that are not there, if it makes them feel good.

    It’s all about feelings.

    It is the will of God that we seek the truth…..not comfort our feelings. [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    [quote:7jxwgpd0]”This is good and pleasing to God our savior, who wills everyone to be saved and to come to knowledge of the truth.” (1 Timothy 2:3-4)

    Sin is defined as interference with the Will of God.

    [/quote:7jxwgpd0]
    No its about which way is God’s way, not feelings! [color=red:7jxwgpd0]
    John 8:31+32 – Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed [u:7jxwgpd0][b:7jxwgpd0]And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”[/b:7jxwgpd0][/u:7jxwgpd0] [/color:7jxwgpd0]

    #8112
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    .
    Ron,

    What you have typed above are non-responses. These are typical Protestant word gymnastics in a vain attempt to justify opposing the Will of God in His Church.

    There are over 40,000 Protestant ecclesial communities who can’t agree on anything but hatred for Christ’s Church….and all of them claim to be guided by the same one Holy Spirit. What does that tell you? What reasonable and prudent man could possibly believe that Christ intended for such chaos?

    Did you read this?

    Scripture Alone? Is Half the Story Sufficient?
    [url:3bgql017]http://www.call2holiness.org/ScriptureAlone/ScriptureAlone.htm[/url:3bgql017]

    How can you expect us to take your comments seriously when you ignore ours? Surely, you know that we have heard the tired old assertions repeatedly before.

    Sure Holy Scripture is the word of God……all of it, including the deuters, which you have removed contrary to the word of God. You claim to believe in the word of God, yet you do this following a Jewish council AFTER the death of Jesus; and you do it in spite of the fact that Scripture tells us not to do it? Are Protestants Christian or Jewish?

    Sure Holy Scripture is the word of God……but it is incomplete and your abuse of 2 Tim 3:16-17 taken out of context does not make it complete. It is a non sequitor. Holy Scripture tells us itself that it is incomplete. Sure Scripture is useful for teaching, that is why we wrote it…..but it is incomplete.

    Nowhere in Holy Scripture do we see Jesus telling His disciples to write anything down……if that was His intent He would have seen that word processors and fax machines existed in such time….He told them to preach……orally. He sent them off without any pencils or tablets.

    If Sola Scriptura was the rule he would have seen that the printing press would have been discovered while He was on Earth, not during the 15th century. How did the Faith survive without the printing press and the general population being literate? The answer is by Tradition. Tradition is as much a part of the Faith now, as it was then.

    The fact is: Nowhere in Holy Scripture is either the term or the concept of Sola Scriptura to be found. Luther fabricated it, because He lacked a teaching authority guided by the Holy Spirit. It is his attempt to justify rebelling against the Church, which St. Paul tells us is the mystical ‘Body of Christ’.

    If Sola Scriptura is the rule, then please show me where in Holy Scripture it grants one the right to start a ecclesial community in contrast with and competition with the Apostolic Church founded by Jesus Christ?

    If Sola Scriptura is the rule, then please show me where in Holy Scripture it grants one the right to delete whole books from the Bible? There are many citations in the NT referring to the deuters, what does that tell you?

    [url:3bgql017]http://scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html[/url:3bgql017]

    St. Paul taught from the Septuagint which includes, and included, the deuters, what does that tell you? The fact is Luther removed them, because they got in his way. Certain passages in there address Purgatory, and he couldn’t have them laying around interfering with his fabricated Sole Fide.

    He wasn’t bold enough to delete the several other books which refer to the need for good works e.g.:

    “;So also [b:3bgql017]faith of itself, if it does not have works, is dead[/b:3bgql017];;..You believe that God is one. You do well. Even the demons believe that and tremble. Do you want proof, you ignoramus, that faith without works is useless? Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar? You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was completed by the works;”(Cf. James 3:14-26)

    If you were driven by the need to learn the truth (as Holy Scripture tells us to do) you find Luther’s adding the word ‘alone’ Rom 3:28 repugnant.

    Scripture is clear:

    1Ti 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is [color=red:3bgql017][b:3bgql017]the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. [/b:3bgql017] [/color:3bgql017]

    [b:3bgql017](n.b. he did not say that the Bible was the pillar and bulwark of the truth…..but the Church who wrote the Bible.[emphasis added])[/b:3bgql017]

    #8113
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Cub:

    Good references, all I would add to the article you link is that when the first printing press with movable type was invented by Guttenburg the first Bibles printed where Catholic Bibles. (Just up the street from me at the Huntington Library we have the great fortune of having two copies which are on display so I can go and read from them at will) So much for the Catholic Church trying to supress the Scriptures.

    While on the subject, (and I’ll make this quick so I can have time to get ready for Mass) If the Catholic Church was so hell bent on supressing the Bible, why would Catholic Monks have copied the Scriptures by hand over so many centuries. Why would the Catholic Liturgical Rites, from the Mass, Breviary, Rites for dispensing the Sacraments be composed primarily of Scripture or require that portions of both the Old and New Testaments be used on a daily basis? Catholic Liturgical life is filled with Scripture, not as a dead letter, but as a living source of our Worship of God. Why where there approved Catholic versions of the Bible in the languages of the People before the first word of the KJV or Luther’s Translation where not simply written down, but before either man was born? And last but not least, (for now) Why was the first book printed on movable type a printing of several hundred copies of the Catholic Edition of the Bible.

    So much for the Protestants who say the Church tried to supress the BIBLE. Now to go and make ready myself for Mass, adding to my spiritual prep this week thanksgiving to God that as a Catholic I can live the Bible, through it’s living use in the Liturgy.

    #8115
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    LAR,

    It is sad that so many falsehoods have been spread, and are continuing to be spread about the Apostolic Church. Satan never sleeps.

    You are correct. Never has the Church suppressed Holy Scripture. Why would she, we wrote it for a reason. We read three readings from it and include a responsorial reading from the psalms at each daily Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Liturgy of the Word is indeed a major component of each Holy Mass.

    [url:3imoi7dh]http://www.usccb.org/nab/index.shtml[/url:3imoi7dh]

    [b:3imoi7dh]Furthermore, such readings are on a 3 year cycle, such that every three years we cover the complete Bible[/b:3imoi7dh] (with the exception of certain proverbs, all of the historical begatting, and certain historical accounts of the Davidic kings).

    BTW: Note the first reading for today’s Mass 4/29/07:

    Reading 1
    Acts 13:14, 43-52

    Paul and Barnabas continued on from Perga
    and reached Antioch in Pisidia.
    On the sabbath they entered the synagogue and took their seats.
    Many Jews and worshipers who were converts to Judaism
    followed Paul and Barnabas, who [color=red:3imoi7dh]spoke[/color:3imoi7dh] to them
    and urged them to remain faithful to the grace of God.

    On the following sabbath almost the whole city gathered
    to [color=red:3imoi7dh]hear[/color:3imoi7dh] the word of the Lord.
    When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy
    and with violent abuse contradicted[color=red:3imoi7dh] what Paul said.[/color:3imoi7dh]Both Paul and Barnabas [color=red:3imoi7dh]spoke out boldly and said,[/color:3imoi7dh]
    “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first,
    but since you reject it
    and condemn yourselves as unworthy of eternal life,
    we now turn to the Gentiles.
    For so the Lord has commanded us,
    I have made you a light to the Gentiles,
    that you may be an instrument of salvation
    to the ends of the earth.”

    The Gentiles were delighted when they [color=red:3imoi7dh]heard [/color:3imoi7dh]this
    and glorified the word of the Lord.
    All who were destined for eternal life came to believe,
    and [color=red:3imoi7dh]the word of the Lord continued to spread[/color:3imoi7dh] [color=blue:3imoi7dh][How was it spread at such time? By mass mailings of the written Word? Or by Tradition — the handing down of the Faith?][/color:3imoi7dh]through the whole region.

    The Jews, however, incited the women of prominence who were worshipers
    and the leading men of the city,
    stirred up a persecution against Paul and Barnabas,
    and expelled them from their territory.
    So they shook the dust from their feet in protest against them,
    and went to Iconium.
    The disciples were filled with joy and the Holy Spirit.

    #8116
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:3opagkdi]The first thing that they say is that the words “the Bible alone” is not found in Scripture and they are right. But things like the Trinity are never by word mentioned, yet we see the Trinity is taught and is very Biblical. So this cannot be used as an argument because there are many reasons to which it clearly teaches that it’s very Biblical to use Scriptures as the authoritative item when seeking answers to our problems. [/quote:3opagkdi]

    This is a non sequitor.

    As far as the Trinity not being contained within Holy Scripture consider the following:

    1Jo 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, Jesus Christ: not by water only but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit which testifieth that Christ is the truth.
    1Jo 5:7 [color=blue:3opagkdi]And there are Three who give testimony in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.[/color:3opagkdi]
    Joh 14:26 But the Paraclete, the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring all things to your mind, whatsoever I shall have said to you.

    Joh 15:26 But when the Paraclete cometh, whom I will send you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceedeth from the Father, he shall give testimony of me.

    1Pe 1:2 According to the foreknowledge of God the Father, unto the sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ. Grace unto you and peace be multiplied.

    Jud 1:20 But you, my beloved, building yourselves upon your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
    Jud 1:21 Keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ, unto life everlasting.

    Mat 28:19 Going therefore, teach ye all nations: [color=blue:3opagkdi]baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. [/color:3opagkdi]
    Mat 28:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world.

    2Co 13:13 (13:12) All the saints salute you.
    2Co 13:14 (13:13) The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ and the charity of God and the communication of the Holy Ghost be with you all. Amen.

    In contrast, neither the words ‘sola scriptura’ nor the concept is to be found anywhere in Holy Scripture, Catholic Tradition, or the teachings of the Church. What is found is just the opposite.

    [quote:3opagkdi]Doesn’t Jesus, Himself, tell us this when He said that, “…It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God?” (Luke 4:4)[/quote:3opagkdi]

    Yes, and the operative word is[color=red:3opagkdi] “every”. [/color:3opagkdi]Live by EVERY word of God. That includes the written as well as that handed down by Tradition, as well as that taught by the Church guided by the Holy Spirit.

    [b:3opagkdi]Your argument has just shot down sola scriptura[/b:3opagkdi].

    Note that He also said the following:

    To the Apostles (the first Catholic Bishops) he said: “He who [color=red:3opagkdi]hears[/color:3opagkdi] you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me, and he who rejects me rejects him who sent me.” (Cf. Luke 10:16).

    Once again, we see the use of the word “hear”. Clearly, if Jesus had established Protestanism’s fabrication of sola scriptura, He would have said: “He who reads your writings, reads My words.”.

    God said the following also:

    “You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it; that you may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.” (Deu 4:2)

    “Every word of God proves true; he is a shield to those who take refuge in him. Do not add to his words, lest he rebuke you, and you be found a liar.” (Prov 30:5-6)

    “But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed. ” (Gal. 1: 8 )

    “And count the forbearance of our Lord as salvation. So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures.” (2 Peter 3:15-16)

    “I warn every one who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if any one adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book, and if any one takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.” (Rev. 22: 18-19)

    These citations are not to be ignored. Clearly, Luther ignored them.

    #8118
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Cub, Good reply, however I think the point was the word Trinity is not in the Bible, but was defined, and the term coined by a Council of the Catholic Church. “Additions” to the faith, as Protestants would term them are due to poor scholarship. Yes we can find the Term Trinity, or Transubstantiation or the label Sacrament come up later in the history of the Church, but not the concept. What Protestants fail to recognize is that these only become an issue when someone like themselves or other early heretical movements question or deny what has always been held by the Church. It is at that point that they are defined de fide.

    An example in the secular world would be the Narcotics laws in the USA. Before Heroin became a major problem there where no laws against it or other narcotics. Does that mean that narcotic analgesics did not exist until the law banning them was inacted, does that mean the narcotics on the list did not have pain killing qualities or had been previously free from addictive qualities. Only a fool would say yes.

    Protestants deny Transubstantiation because in part they say that it was not a belief of the Church until as late as the 1500’s. In the usual non-historical blur that they create, they omit that it was not until the 1500’s that Protestantism was created by men who denied among other things the real presence of our Lord for the first time in history. In response, what did the Church do? When the Council of Trent was promulgated those who held and circulated these novel man made traditions such as Luther and Consubsantiation and other Protestants where inivited to the Council, with a guarentee of safe passage to and from, in order to explain their positions. They refused, so the Council based on their writings reviewed them found them lacking in truth condemned them, but did not stop there. In order to uphold the truth which had been preached and taught from the very beginning of the Church in 33AD when founded by Christ, they defined the belief so there would be no question as to what the Church had always believed. The research and prayers that went into the defining of the dogma included a look into what had always been taught based on the Sacred Scriptures and the writings of the Early Fathers, and Saints. The term to define what the belief was and was not was given in order to not confuse the dogma with the errors of the Protestants. Eastern Catholic and Orthodox, who hold to the same beliefs never required a term because in the East they never faced the novel inventions of the Protestants and nobody in the Eastern Churches ever denied that Christ is physically present in the consecrated elements.

    Which brings up one minor pesky little point. Most Latin Rite Catholics are either unaware of or forget about our Eastern Rite Catholic Brothers. Eastern Rite Catholics have a different set of rites that surround the Mass, (in the East primarily called the Divine Liturgy) These Catholics are 100% in communion with the Pope, (unlike the Orthodox Churches) and any Catholic in a state of grace may recieve communion or go to confession in their churches. The Scriptures read in the Liturgy follow a different cycle however. I would encourage any Latin Rite Catholic to assist Mass from time to time in an Eastern Catholic parish if they have one near them, to see the true universality of the Church. I myself attend Mass at an Armenian Catholic Church, and sometimes, (when I wake up late) a Coptic Catholic Church, (Coptics are an ancient rite from Egypt) When travelling I sometimes attend Ukranian, Melekite (Jordianian and Syrian Rites) or even the Traditional Latin Mass where it is offered with the permission of the local bishop. All this shows the broad spiritual heritage of the Church even where the ritual developed differently but the Faith remained the same.

    #8121
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hey cubbie
    about your comments:

    [quote:3flzjd1r]What you have typed above are non-responses. These are typical Protestant word gymnastics in a vain attempt to justify opposing the Will of God in His Church.

    There are over 40,000 Protestant ecclesial communities who can’t agree on anything but hatred for Christ’s Church….and all of them claim to be guided by the same one Holy Spirit. What does that tell you? What reasonable and prudent man could possibly believe that Christ intended for such chaos? [/quote:3flzjd1r]
    Typically my thought out answers are considered and ignored by Catholics
    that then just ramble on without any Scriptures to back them up, just the normal rhetoric about there being so many other churhes as if yours is The Church.” But without twisting Scriptures or supposed history, you’d have nothing!
    [quote:3flzjd1r]
    Did you read this?

    Scripture Alone? Is Half the Story Sufficient?
    http://www.call2holiness.org/ScriptureA … eAlone.htm [/quote:3flzjd1r]
    Yes – what changed there? – its all the same twists as usual. Do you want me to show you where?

    [quote:3flzjd1r]How can you expect us to take your comments seriously when you ignore ours? Surely, you know that we have heard the tired old assertions repeatedly before. [/quote:3flzjd1r]
    Talk about a kettle calling me black! Ditto cubbie, just plain ditto!

    More of the same below:

    Such as this is worth pointing out – you quoted this:

    [quote:3flzjd1r]On the following sabbath almost the whole city gathered
    to hear the word of the Lord.
    When the Jews saw the crowds, they were filled with jealousy
    and with violent abuse contradicted what Paul said.Both Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly and said,
    “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken to you first, [/quote:3flzjd1r]
    But notice what was beinig heared? THE Word of God – The Bible – the same gospel! SO what was different? So what if it was spoken or written, its the same message or else iit isn’t Biblical which then makes it of no good. BTW – you still haven’t given us one thing that is like the Bible because there isn’t anything like it <img loading=” title=”Very Happy” />

    You also added
    [quote:3flzjd1r]Yes, and the operative word is “every”. Live by EVERY word of God. That includes the written as well as that handed down by Tradition, as well as that taught by the Church guided by the Holy Spirit. [/quote:3flzjd1r]
    So what traditions were handed down that are acceptable that aren’t in the Bible? Tell me your catholic traditions and I’ll point out how they go against Scriptures!
    AS for all of those verses you quoted, whichi ones mention that Paul was referring them to mean Catholic? None! I think you are very deceptive much like Mr.LARoberts!

    So Sola Scriptura is withiout a doubt the authoritive means Alone!

    #8124
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Sola Scriptura: Justify the truth of your lie; do not expect us to justify the Truth using your lie.

    Scripture is clear:

    1Ti 3:15 if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is [color=red:25xasqyx][b:25xasqyx]the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth. [/b:25xasqyx][/color:25xasqyx]

    (n.b. he did not say that the Bible was the pillar and bulwark of the truth…..but the Church who wrote the Bible.)

    #8125
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Hey Cubbie – you want me to justify the truth?

    Just what does that Church that you refer to follow for a guideline?

    1 its whims or
    2 popularity voting
    3 or Scriptures

    And who wrote the Book? The Holy Spirit not anyone of any special denomination or do you forget verses like
    2 Peter 1:20?
    [color=red:12xo3ljx]knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation,[/color:12xo3ljx]

    #8127
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Cubbie,

    I agree with you that it is “the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”

    I think that it was Augustine that said that when there is the church there is Christ, and when there is Christ there is the Church.

    Christ cannot be separated from His Body.

    And so it is with Scripture. It cannot be separated from Christ which also means that it cannot be separated from His body the Church.

    Scripture was never meant to be alone.

    #8129
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    SAint James says:
    [quote:3ipl8oop]
    I agree with you that it is “the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”

    I think that it was Augustine that said that when there is the church there is Christ, and when there is Christ there is the Church.

    Christ cannot be separated from His Body.

    And so it is with Scripture. It cannot be separated from Christ which also means that it cannot be separated from His body the Church [/quote:3ipl8oop]

    these words are correct but define the meaning of church (Bibically)

    (remember Matthew 7:13+14)
    If you say the catholic church then are you saying every catholic is saved?
    No body else?

    #8133
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Thank you for saying that this post was correct.
    But please note the line you left out:

    Scripture was never meant to be alone.

    #8137
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    You are welcomed but don’t misunderstand me when you say

    [quote:21hk9jmw]Thank you for saying that this post was correct.
    But please note the line you left out:

    Scripture was never meant to be alone.[/quote:21hk9jmw]

    I left it out because it alone is [u:21hk9jmw][b:21hk9jmw]THE Authoritive [/b:21hk9jmw][/u:21hk9jmw]means for man (including the Church) to follow, above all else!

    #8140
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Above Christ?

    #8150
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    You haven’t answered the question –

    You quoted this verse – it is “the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.”

    [quote:3di6rzze] Define what you mean by “the Church”[/quote:3di6rzze]

    [quote:3di6rzze]
    If you say the catholic church then are you saying every catholic is saved?
    No body else?
    [/quote:3di6rzze]

    #8157
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Ronk,

    If you look at the progression here your statement “I left it out because it alone is THE Authoritive means for man (including the Church) to follow, above all else!” was the last statement.

    My question was: Above Christ?

    I know you are avoiding the question.

    Of course the Church is the Body of Christ, called out by God as a people for His own. All are made to drink of the Holy Spirit to make us one.This Body will consist of Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, and other groups.

    Not all Catholics will be faithful to the grace bestowed at Baptism, and of course we know that not all Baptists are Christians.

    But please, answer this question: Above Christ?

    #8160
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    And when you say:

    [quote:1tmjhobq]This Body will consist of Catholics, Orthodox, Protestants, and other groups. [/quote:1tmjhobq]

    knowing that Matthew 7:13+14 says – [color=red:1tmjhobq]Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way Because[a] narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it. that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. [/color:1tmjhobq]
    who are the ones or what determines which group makes or misses this groupof narrow but saved people?

    Answer – Above Christ? — The word became flesh – the word is from Christ not above or below but the same as you words are you.

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