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  • #7767
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Mr. LARoberts,

    I hope you don’t mind but there are a few flaws with your “invincable” article (or so you thought) –



    [quote:1pzyccz3]At this point it would seem that the shifting of the conversation to the talking points which have no basis in the authentic interpretation of Sacred Scripture or historical fact (at least until Evangelical Protestant Ministers in the 18th and 19th Centuries re-invented the Church in their own image, making them a religious system that is truly a Tradition of Men,) can not be given an honest replies.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    And just because you say this, does that make what you say right and me wrong?? Lets check out this to see who is right comparing it to Scriptures!
    Boy you sure think you have all of the answers!

    [quote:1pzyccz3]Not because of the 2000 year teaching of Christ Jesus, upheld and maintained by the Catholic Church since it’s founding around 33AD is wrong, but because these Evangelical Traditons of Men are so far removed from what Christ Jesus taught, and simply preach a false Christ invented by Protestant Theologians when they proclaimed themselves to be the authority and denied the Church who had been the guardian of the Truth centuries even back to the Apostles.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Oh yea, and the Mormons think they are right and the JW’s think they’re right and Catholics think they’re right too! We’ve been warned in Scriptures to check everyone out for deceptions and to begin with,”who told you Cathaicism is THE Church?” According to John 3:16 everyone who believes in the work done by Christ is saved and as Ephesians says –
    (Eph 2:19-22) -[color=darkred:1pzyccz3]19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.[/color:1pzyccz3] I don’t see the word Catholic anywhere and even in the early days Catholic meant universal not Roman Catholic as today’s church of your denomination is called

    [quote:1pzyccz3] The untruths proposed by Protestant, most of all Evangelical Protestantism and the “Church Invisible” being so distant from what Christ taught, cannot be reconciled with what Jesus handed down to the Apostles, (Traditio: to hand down or to hand on)[/quote:1pzyccz3]

    Neither are the Traditions of your “church” without some tremendous Scripture twisting on their part. Seems like a lot of circular reasoning is shown on your part – as in We must be right, God is never wrong and says He’ll never let His Church down and We believe we are the Church so what we say must be infallible. We is a mighty big word for only two letters. AS for the untruths of your church, they are there if you look at what God’s word says with an open unbiased mind.

    [quote:1pzyccz3] It is not suprising, as the Man made Traditions of the Protestants have no historical basis before they rejected Christ’s claim that He would remain with us, and that He would send the Holy Ghost to guide and help us, but rather that He abandoned us until they came along to put things back on track.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Another big word- us – as if that meant Jesus referred to Roman Catholicism – I find no Roman Catholicism being mentioned in Scriptures
    by name, so how dld you come up with that? Answer – “that is what they say” is not good enough

    [quote:1pzyccz3]Too bad that according to Protestant “logic” Jesus cannot be taken for his word. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Say what? We are the Sola Scriptura crowd- not the catholic church – or did you forget?

    [quote:1pzyccz3]As the Bible never says that we need to accept Jesus as “Our Lord and Personal Savior,” and that is that. But rather says, we should “Believe and be baptized in Water and the Spirit.”[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Yes it does in John 3:16-18 3:36 – Believe in what? That is the question, notice it says “believe” first and then be baptised – keep things in correct order please

    [quote:1pzyccz3] The same goes for the Eternal Assurance hogwash of the Evangelicals,[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    From your perspective I understand why you don’t believe, you can’t, you never made the connection yet.

    [quote:1pzyccz3]basing their interpretation of Scipture on the King James or other modern language versions of the Scriptures, they tell us that when we “Make our decision for Christ” we are Saved. However the greek word and tense used by St. Paul when he writes about salvation is a transitent form of the verb which means that we are in the process of our salvation, not a completed work, but a work being acted upon us by the work of the passion and death of Christ, and our cooperation with His graces, gained for us by His Cross.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Funny, Jesus said “it was finished” didn’t he? What do you suppose He meant by that? Or don’t you know? ((as obviously you don’t know)

    [quote:1pzyccz3] Too bad the Evangelicals are not taught to read the Scriptures with an understanding of the original languages, but re-cast the original text to conform to their meanings and interpretations. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Where is that a necessity? (Biblically it isn’t or does Jesus not say come to Him as little children?)

    [quote:1pzyccz3]Since the hostility, anger and venom of people who place more stock in Anti-Catholic writers than they do in the Sacred Scriptures, or the 2000 year consistant teaching of the Church which pre-dates the inspired books of the New Testament, making them blind to authentic Christian teaching.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Again you automatically say with a slant that we are “angery?” And what makes you think that the “catholic” teachings are the same when obviously they aren’t? ( I know- “catholics are taught that way”) Nothing personal but we are to “contend for the truth” so now let’s see who is telling the Truth is my goal.

    [quote:1pzyccz3] I think the only thing left is to ask our Lady, the Immaculate Heart to join us in petitioning her son, our Lord that the heart’s of rabid anti-Catholics be softened and they rather than blindly condemn the teachings of Christ out of the hatred for the Church He founded, that they come to submit to Christ Jesus and the Church He founded. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Well here is a perfect example – praying to someone other then Jesus- strickly unbiblical – I thought you said your church followed the truth

    [quote:1pzyccz3]So I for one, having Chosen Christ and His teachings, will not be drawn in any further to the false debates of Evangelical Traditions of Men, and will ally myself with the hosts of heaven to pray for the conversion of Evangelical hetrodoxy to the orthodox teachings of Christ preserved in the entire deposit of faith in the Catholic Church, asking Mary, Mother of God, and all the saints to join with me in petitioning the throne of heaven in opening the hearts of the Protestant to the Truths of Christ.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    You are off base thinking that Mary and all the saints are listening – it sure isn’t Biblical

    [quote:1pzyccz3] Or as the televangelists would say, “I rebuke you demons of Protestant mis-interpretation of the Scriptures, and attacks on the authentic Christ and His Church.” [/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Oh yes indeed, and don’t forget the catholic misinterpretations and claims to be the authentic Church – Not!

    [quote:1pzyccz3]For those here who are going to be unfamiliar with the comments I make below to Mr. Ron, I’d suggest you read, Evangelical Is Not Enough, and The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism, both written by former Anti-Catholics who make Mr? Ron look passive in his approach who also converted to the Christ and His Church.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    So why not just include the right ones – http://www.pro-gospel.orghttp://www.GNFC.org – and many other good ones including mine <img loading=” title=”Wink” />

    [quote:1pzyccz3] The difference between the above books and the postings by Mr. Ron here, is the men where trained and had advanced studies at Protestant Universities, where before their converson to the Faith honest and gave readers sources for their points of attack on the Catholic Church, and opened their souls to recieve Christ and become a follower of Christ and be recieved into the Church. There is also Karl Keatings Catholic Answers web-site. Karl also being a former trubador against anything Catholic, who had the scales before his eyes removed, and read history from an honest no biased point of view, and came to the Church. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Ha Ha your whole article is filled with biase viewpoints

    [quote:1pzyccz3]The above is a general note to any Evangelical Anti-Catholic. Now a personal note to Ron K a responso as it was his command to me, Quote:
    Mr. LARoberts – save it. You need it more for yourself! [/quote:1pzyccz3]
    I guess you should post what I was refferring to when I said that (backtrack on this webposting to an earlier post for details)

    [quote:1pzyccz3]I come from a Sephardic home, my father and grandfather led the same congregation for over 60 years. In my late teens as I was being groomed to take over my father’s pulpit, I was infludenced by the Evangelical Free Chruch and one Bart Brewer. Bart had been a Catholic priest, a Carmelite in fact. He “opened the eyes” of many an Evangelical Church by his seminars on the evils of the Catholic Church and the Pope. The problem with Bart and a whole slew of professinal Anti-Catholics is that they are poorly Bible based, (They do throw out a few stock Protestant phrases, much like yourself Mr. Ron) but spend most of the time bashing what they falsely accuse the Catholic Church of being. Bart and his friends made two fatal errors. They started misquoting the Hebrew Scriptures, as well as the Early Church Fathers in order to assert the claims they where making.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Well I’m not that way so now what Mr. LARoberts, ask Mr. Weathers how often I use the Bible to supply answers. (correctly to I might add)

    [quote:1pzyccz3] This got me to study what the actual texts said. I read Josephus, and Philo, early Jewish historians and philosopers, who also wrote with contempt about the early Church, I read other non-catholic sources and anti catholic writings from the first four centuries, and found that rather than wash away the claims of the Catholic Church they confirmed that the practice and teachings of the Early Church where not protestant, but in fact what the Catholic Church teaches today.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Scriptures say that they save us, that we grow by it – which is your biggest error – you read all the “other junk” instead of Scriptures BTW – no one tells me what can compare with the Bible since its God’s word – can you ?

    [quote:1pzyccz3] The second error was to think the sexual sins of their past, would not be found out and the fact they had been expelled from their orders would not come to light if they simply made an angry pre-emtive attack on the Church that had expelled them. As I have mentioned before, Mr. Ron, your anger and your comments are not remarkable, because they are not your own. You have allowed your mind and your soul to be turned over to the Hislops and Bottiners and other Anti-Catholic writers, who’s writings have not only be proved to be false and plagaristic, but your complete trust in them is revealed by the very style of your writing and almost word for word attacks. As Hislop and Bottiner have been proven time and time again to be blithering idiots who simply copied from other people, I for one would rather see some honest fresh arguments.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Well now is that why so many of your priests are child molesters? (You have no right to suggest me of any “sexual misgivings” That is a low blow charge and totally false)

    [quote:1pzyccz3] It was the lies and fabrications of Anti-Catholics who slipped up by retelling old fables that could not be backed up historically combined with the Grace of God that brought me not simply to the door of the Catholic Church, but inside the fold. It was in the Catholic Church that I found the eternal Word of God, (Christ Jesus) as he had been preached from the time of the Apostles, rather than the false traditions of Man Jesus of the Protestants. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
    As I began this reply – that is what they tell you to believe of, course why wouldn’t they?

    [quote:1pzyccz3]Now I am not making any implication that Mr. Ron has any sexual pecadillos he is hiding,[/quote:1pzyccz3]
    You already have – I think an apology from or repremand from a manager of this board would be in order!

    [quote:1pzyccz3] but I do assert that none of the ideas or calumnies he asserts against the Chruch are his own, none of them are inspired by the Spirit of Lite, but rather copied from men who have fallen into the Spirits of Anger and deception. Most of all that Mr. Ron’s eyes and soul seem to be shut tight, based on his knee jerk anti-catholic predigested, comments and his attempts to inject venom rather than to share the Good News of the authentic Christ Jesus. Mr. Ron reminds me of Saul before he converted and was baptized, (but Ron would put less importance on baptism than St. Paul who sought out the Sacrament after his eyes where opened) in Acts Chapter 8 Quote:
    Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples [/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Well there is no changing your biased opinions with the truth! At least you shared your “opinions” now when are you going to inject the truth?

    [quote:1pzyccz3]I for one pray that like Saul he can become a Paul, Mr Ron will one day submit himself to the authentic Christ, and abandon his man made invention of the Protestant Christ. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
    Your Prayer has been answered, now when will you do likewise?

    #7771
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    As usual your venom has totally overlooked the facts and you have twisted them into your own private misrepresentations. If I suspend hope that you will one day open your heart to the Authentic Jesus, who around AD 33 founded the Church on Simon, who He re-named Peter, I know that our Lord and His Mother will not give up hope in your eventual return to the Faith. Otherwise your anger, and continued twisting of the truth is not worth my time.

    [quote:3cpy0fxr]and many other good ones including mine
    [/quote:3cpy0fxr]

    I’ve read them, and your web page, filled with poorly written gibberish, based not on the authentic nor historical facts, nor on a proper understanding of history or the scriptures. You decry Catholic History as being brainwashing, the tripe you offer is a waste of the paper it is written on.

    You are a sad and angry man. So full of hate. Very sad, very sad indeed.

    However I’ll still remember the intention of your soul when I pray my rosary tonight. I may not know what to do with you, but you can bet our Lady will.

    #7772
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Mr. Roberts says
    [quote:20yots8g]
    As usual your venom has totally overlooked the facts and you have twisted them into your own private misrepresentations.[/quote:20yots8g]
    How and where do I misrepresent or twist any of these? I know they don’t match your beliefs, but who is doing the twists, me or you? And as far as venom, I only have that towards the deceptions against the way of the Lord, so are you saying Jesus was wrong in Matthew 23 too?

    [quote:20yots8g] If I suspend hope that you will one day open your heart to the Authentic Jesus, who around AD 33 founded the Church on Simon, who He re-named Peter, I know that our Lord and His Mother will not give up hope in your eventual return to the Faith.[/quote:20yots8g]
    As I’ve said in the past, He saved me by His blood, not with anything that I can do. Why is that so hard for you to understand? And Mary has nothing to do about it as she simply said, “Whatever He says to you, do it.”

    [quote:20yots8g] Otherwise your anger, and continued twisting of the truth is not worth my time.

    Quote:
    and many other good ones including mine
    [/quote:20yots8g]

    I think one day you will know that what I’ve been telling you is not any “wasting of your time”

    [quote:20yots8g]I’ve read them, and your web page, filled with poorly written gibberish, based not on the authentic nor historical facts, nor on a proper understanding of history or the scriptures. You decry Catholic History as being brainwashing, the tripe you offer is a waste of the paper it is written on. [/quote:20yots8g]
    Funny how you can write these things and yet say next that I’m the angry one, full of hate?

    [quote:20yots8g]You are a sad and angry man. So full of hate. Very sad, very sad indeed. [/quote:20yots8g]
    Why? Because I point out accurately the short-comings of Catholicism?

    [quote:20yots8g]However I’ll still remember the intention of your soul when I pray my rosary tonight.[/quote:20yots8g]
    That is very religious but not Biblically acceptable either.

    [quote:20yots8g] I may not know what to do with you, but you can bet our Lady will.[/quote:20yots8g]
    [color=red:20yots8g]Acts 4:12 – Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.”[/color:20yots8g]
    Neither your’s nor my salvation is about Mary.

    #7938
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I’m not sure what is meant by the gospel light ministries.

    #7939
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Or Gospel Lite, is standard anti-Catholic rantings. With difficient Sola Scriptura arguments that reject 1500 years of Christian teaching and history.

    #7940
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:2xa0s4xl]I’m not sure what is meant by the gospel light ministries.[/quote:2xa0s4xl]

    [color=darkblue:2xa0s4xl]I suggest not wasting your time looking into it. [/color:2xa0s4xl]

    #7941
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    LARoberts, you can say whatever you wish but that won’t change the facts about your “religion.”

    John 3:16 says that “whosoever believes will be saved.”

    On my website home page, I list all the verses that show Jesus bought, redeemed, purged, cleansed and did it all with His blood but your church says we need purgatory to take care of sins, or we must merit our salvation through our good works!

    The Bible tells us not to go to the dead on behalf of the living that there’s no other mediator between God and man but for Jesus but your church tells you to pray tio Mary!

    James 2:10 says that if you commit one sin you are guilty of all and Rev 21:27 tells us that no sin will get into Heaven – but your church tells us not to worry about venial sins

    I could continue but you get my point – What is it about Jesus that you actually believe in? That’s what I’d like to know.

    #7943
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Ron.What is your role at the “meeting place” you attend?are you the headmaster or the pastor,also I asked this question before but I don’t recall a answer,but how often is communion given?.Does your gathering people believe in the transubstantiation?.

    #7944
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Yawn….

    #7945
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Why do you ask this? (although I have nothing to hide, are you just curious or what?)

    As far as transubstantiation, no of course not. John 6 does not teach that either. As far as the Gospel accounts – Jesus held up the bread and said This is my body given up for you (He didn’t make bread to have you eat your way to Heaven) do this (now He is referring to the bread) in remembrance of me.

    Same as in Mattrhew’s account where they were repremanded by the Pharisees – for picking up and eating the grain – Jesus said that the food enters and gos through to the other end – it has no bearing in defiling anyone. It is from within that does that. So do you think that food which cannot defile a person can then make him, more righteous? NO!

    #7949
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    So then what I gather from your last post you don’t celebrate the Eucharist at your place cause if you don’t believe in transubstantiation all you would be eating is human bread and human wine.

    #7951
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    It is much more simple to toss out things that are hard to believe, (as Jesus said in the Scriptures) to ignore the original languages and the culture, and context of the times. To edit out what we don’t want to see. To simply make life easy by rejecting anything that does not suit us, and brand it as brainwashing and non-biblical pagan influenced hogwash. To make myself as the only and ultimate authority, and reject anything I find does not suit myself, even the interpretation of other “Bible Believers” because I now have the God given authority to pronounce them as posing as Christians and not really be saved, based on my own personal relationship with Jesus. Wow I now feel free enough to say that you are not a Bible Christian in the manner God showed me when I was flipping through the Bible last night so I could come into your livingroom and start trashing you and your family. By the way, God reveled to me via the Scriptures last night that there is no authorization in the Bible for the use of Elecrical devices, computers, automobiles, or photographs. Your photograph must be removed from your webpage. Any family photos you have must be burned, as they are a violation of the making of any images of anything found in the heavens or on earth, and the midi device used on the web page is not a musical insturment mentioned in the Bible, so it is a non-Biblical tool of the Devil. Now all you have to do is change all your Bible beliefs to match the ones I have discovered through my self search through the Bible last night, and follow the way I interepret the Bible, or your soul will be damned forever, because you are not a Christian as the Bible alone told me. Oh yeah, God also told me to have you correct the inconsistancies on your webpage before you delete it as it is non-Biblical to have a web page.

    Now that I have returned from going off the Bible Only Deep end, I’ll return to sanity and reaffirm Christ Jesus and His Church.

    #7952
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Mr. Weathers say:

    [quote:2p2h374j]So then what I gather from your last post you don’t celebrate the Eucharist at your place cause if you don’t believe in transubstantiation all you would be eating is human bread and human wine.[/quote:2p2h374j]

    No that is not what I said. I said we are to take communion as a memorial service to reflect upon what Jesus did the next day at Calvary – The Isaiah 53:5 part “By His strips we are healed” so that as a result we now have a 2 Corinthians 5:21 – [color=red:2p2h374j][b:2p2h374j]For He made Him who knew no sin to be sin for us, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.[/b:2p2h374j][/color:2p2h374j]
    We do it once a month so that it doesn’t become just a meaningless ritual

    LARoberts – take a good deep breath – your anger is so revealing and doesn’t accomplish a thing anyways.

    #7954
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Protestants reject transubstantiation, and so do many Catholic scholars. The average Catholic is vague concerning the nature of the Eucharistic presence of Christ, and one can sympathize with him, in view of the lack of clear teaching about the Most Blessed Sacrament.

    The basic objection to the Catholic doctrine of the real presence is not that it is against Scripture, but that it is against reason. The words of Jesus seem plain enough. “This is my body.” This is my blood.” “Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink his blood, you do not have life in you.” “My flesh is real food, my blood is real drink.” When some of his disciples complained, “This is a hard saying; who can accept it?”, he didn’t explain that he had not been speaking literally in saying he would give his body to eat and his blood to drink. Instead he let them go. As St. John tells us, many left him because they would not accept this teaching.

    Our Lord’s words are not interpreted non-literally because that is the obvious way to interpret them, but because a literal interpretation seems to be repugnant to reason. The conservative Protestant theologian Louis Berkhof, in his famous work Systematic Theology, insists that the Roman teaching “. . . violates the human senses, where it asks us to believe that what tastes and looks like bread and wine, is really flesh and blood; and human reason, where it requires belief in the separation of a substance and its properties and in the presence of a material body in several places at the same time, both of which are contrary to reason.”1

    Among Catholics firmly committed to all that the Church teaches, one finds much confusion and various misunderstandings regarding Christ’s Eucharistic presence. Take these questions: Do we receive (for instance) Christ’s head and arms and feet? If the accidents of bread were removed, would we see the substance of his body, as though a curtain had been drawn back? Are the bread and wine converted into his soul and divinity? Attempted answers to these questions show up the confusion existing in the minds of most Catholics.

    Then there is the grave situation of those Catholics who think transubstantiation is against reason. Common sense and science, they believe, demand its rejection. It is an impossible theory based on the erroneous natural science of Aristotle.

    This denial is extremely serious, for the Church teaches infallibly that Christ is present through transubstantiation. As the Council of Trent says, and the Catechism of the Catholic Church repeats: “. . . by the consecration of the bread and wine there takes place a change of the whole substance of the bread into the substance of the body of Christ our Lord and of the whole substance of the wine into the substance of his blood. This change the holy Catholic Church has fittingly and properly called transubstantiation.”2 Trent pronounces an anathema against those who deny transubstantiation.3

    #7959
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Mr Weathers you are very wrong when you say that
    [quote:1ix0bb53]
    The basic objection to the Catholic doctrine of the real presence is not that it is against Scripture, but that it is against reason[/quote:1ix0bb53]

    Do you think that what goes into the mouth matters? Then explain this from MAtthew 15:11-17:
    [color=red:1ix0bb53] 11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man.”
    12 Then His disciples came and said to Him, “Do You know that the Pharisees were offended when they heard this saying?”
    13 But He answered and said, “Every plant which My heavenly Father has not planted will be uprooted. 14 Let them alone. They are blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch.”
    15 Then Peter answered and said to Him, “Explain this parable to us.”
    16 So Jesus said, “Are you also still without understanding? 17 Do you not yet understand that whatever enters the mouth goes into the stomach and is eliminated?[/color:1ix0bb53]
    And then look at John 6:
    [i:1ix0bb53][color=red:1ix0bb53]35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.

    YOU’d claim literal? Yet today people still hunger and thirst [/color:1ix0bb53]

    41 The Jews then complained about Him, because He said, “I am the bread which came down from heaven.” 42 And they said, “Is not this Jesus, the son of Joseph, whose father and mother we know? How is it then that He says, ‘I have come down from heaven’?”
    43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.'[e]Therefore everyone who has heard and learned[f] from the Father comes to Me. 46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father. 47 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me has everlasting life. 48 I am the bread of life. 49 Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and are dead. 50 This is the bread which comes down from heaven, that one may eat of it and not die. [b:1ix0bb53]51 I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” [/b:1ix0bb53]
    [[color=black:1ix0bb53]color=black]But people still are dying every day[/color:1ix0bb53]![/color]

    [color=red:1ix0bb53]52 The Jews therefore quarreled among themselves, saying, “How can this Man give us His flesh to eat?”
    53 Then Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Whoever eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day. 55 For My flesh is food indeed,[h] and My blood is drink indeed. 56 He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood abides in Me, and I in him. 57 As the living Father sent Me, and I live because of the Father, so he who feeds on Me will live because of Me. 58 This is the bread which came down from heaven not as your fathers ate the manna, and are dead. He who eats this bread will live forever.” [/color:1ix0bb53]
    Yet they still die – check your obituaries
    they still hungeer and thirst daily as well

    [color=red:1ix0bb53]59 These things He said in the synagogue as He taught in Capernaum.
    Many Disciples Turn Away

    60 Therefore many of His disciples, when they heard this, said, “This is a hard saying; who can understand it?”
    61 When Jesus knew in Himself that His disciples complained about this, He said to them, “Does this offend you? 62 What then if you should see the Son of Man ascend where He was before? 63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.”[/color:1ix0bb53] [/color][/i:1ix0bb53]
    Verse 6:63 tells us clearly that the words are spirtual – not flesh

    or go back to John 4:31-34 – Was Jesus saying that he actually had a hambuger under his robe? (below)

    [color=red:1ix0bb53]31 In the meantime His disciples urged Him, saying, “Rabbi, eat.”
    32 But He said to them, “I have food to eat of which you do not know.”
    33 Therefore the disciples said to one another, “Has anyone brought Him anything to eat?”
    34 Jesus said to them, “My food is to do the will of Him who sent Me, and to finish His work[/color:1ix0bb53]
    [b:1ix0bb53]

    It just more deception by your church!

    [/b:1ix0bb53]

    #7961
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:d74m54ss]LARoberts – take a good deep breath – your anger is so revealing and doesn’t accomplish a thing anyways.[/quote:d74m54ss]

    Ronald, I know you will be unable to see this, as your myopia gets the best of you, but I was simply aping your behavior here and on other boards where I have read and observed the same shameless behavior.

    By the way, in the break before your next attacks at logic, history and rational thought. Not to mention the unbroken interpretation of Sacred Scripture from the Church which Christ promised not to abandon. You may want to review your webpage first with Spellcheck and then for the glaring inconsistancies in your dualing “Testamonies”.

    #7962
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    LARoberts tells me
    [quote:weckydfz]Ronald, I know you will be unable to see this, as your myopia gets the best of you, but I was simply aping your behavior here and on other boards where I have read and observed the same shameless behavior.

    By the way, in the break before your next attacks at logic, history and rational thought. Not to mention the unbroken interpretation of Sacred Scripture from the Church which Christ promised not to abandon. You may want to review your webpage first with Spellcheck and then for the glaring inconsistancies in your dualing “Testamonies”.[/quote:weckydfz]

    MY myopia? I simply point out your attacks are not very “christian” like. As for me? – I’m trying to show you that what your beliefs are in the reality of how they do NOT match up with the Bible, despite your claims and “evidences” that you so proudly like to declare.

    I’m glad my web page says the same as the others — at least you read them and they are consistent. God doesn’t care about my mispelling as much as He does about you ignoring what the message says. Time for you to get your house in order Mr. LARoberts!

    #7963
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I can just imagine him in a dress and wig, like the guy who played the “Church Lady” on the old Saturday Night Live. I was never up late enough to watch the entire program, but I have seen tapes of the Church Lady… Smug, always ignoring the whole picture and distorting what others said. Much the same Ronald distorts my suggestion that he look over his webpage for contradictory statements he makes and wanders off into an entirely different universe talking about how his content agrees with those of other diluded Anti-Catholics.

    At least as Catholics we can use humor, and parody, be it Rabid Anti-Catholics, or ourselves. One of the main reasons for this is the Protestant mind, as it gets closer to Calvin and the Puritan Movements, has no room for humor. Unlike Catholics who believe in a God who loves us because we are His creation, and reaches out to us out of Love, and because He sees in us the potential to be elevated to what He intended for mankind before the fall, (when we attain the Beatific Vision).

    The Protestant looks at the world from the point of being of no value to God, a total reprobate, unworthy of God’s mercy. Lutheran Theology describes mankind and our souls as being dung hills. God tricks Himself and looks away, ignoring our reprobate souls and covers us in grace despite our unworthiness. However as Catholics God sees us as sons and daughters who have fallen into error, and calls us back to Him because He as our Creator sees what we can become, rather than looking only at our rejection of Him.

    Catholics we believe that God is merciful, and deals with each soul based on the knowledge they have of Him. In the case of an Aboriginal man who has never heard the Good News, or been baptized God will deal with Him according to His mercy. We do not know, even though theologians have speculated; After death God may give this pagan full knowledge of the truth and allow him to choose God or reject Him. He may give the soul of a just pagan who has never been evangelized a place of perfect happiness, (Limbo). The Church has never defined what the disposition of that soul is, because it has not been revealed to us.

    In the case of lapsed Catholics who take the Rabid Anti-Catholic stance of people like Ron. God will not stop sending grace even though Ron may for the present time refuse it and continue to blind himself to historical facts, and any point of view that does not concur with his own authority, and his own interpretation, which when it disagrees with the other people who write in the “Christian” newspaper he “writes” for, he rejects and condemns as Non-Biblical*. The Church teaches that we cannot do as he does, and proclaim them to be damned, or “not saved” as he by his limiting of God an His mercy does. Ron, at least at the present time appears to be suffering from Invincible Ignorance. Invincible Ignorance is a state in which someone cannot hear the Truth of God and the Message of Christ Jesus which He gave to His Church in order to spread the message of salvation to the ends of the world. In Ron’s case, it would appear that he is so vested in his errors, and so prejudiced against the Church, that he cannot or refuses to accept what she teaches, and has held since being commissioned by Christ. As Catholics we cannot dismiss Ronald or anyone else to hellfire, we must depend on God to make that final determination. Thus as individual Catholics we are relieved of the burden of making Judgements for God, and condemning others based on our own determination of how someone’s soul will be judged by God.

    *Having read copies of the paper online, it would appear that most anyone can submit an article and have it published if they live in the area, and claim to be a Christian. Some of the writers have even included Catholics and Catholic Ritual and Tradition as a valid Christian alternative. Seems odd that Ronald would be a part of such an evil paper as one that accepts the Catholic faith, (at least on the part of some article submissions). Run, don’t walk away from your paper Ron, you may learn tact and tollerance for others, (which does not imply acceptance of their viewpoints.)

    #7966
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    According to Ron, all we have to do is

    [quote:ik2uvlsm]LARoberts, you can say whatever you wish but that won’t change the facts about your “religion.”

    John 3:16 says that “whosoever believes will be saved.”

    [/quote:ik2uvlsm]

    Well, among the first requirements of the Catholic Church is to believe on Christ Jesus. So based on the minimalist logic of the Fundie Evangelicals, Catholics as they Believe are “Saved”

    Lets just set aside for a moment the fact that Ronism ingores the many instances in sacred scripture where we read that you must be born of water and the spirit, and that the Ethiopian after hearing the message of Christ wishes to be baptized without any delay. We don’t want to get into the entire families and crowds who hear the message and want to be baptized, where the scriptures do not support Ronism by saying, “Except Babies and Children.”

    Oops, almost forgot to say, no offence Ron, just trying to educate you about the historical teachings of the Church that existed long before your beliefs where invented by men in the 16th Century, and even before the New Testament was written. Guess these folks where not saved either, as they held the same faith as the Catholic Church continues to hold, and they did not have ol King James and his mandated translation to misquote.
    Then again, according to Ron’s actions, he is not held accountable. Ron can rant and rave that only he knows the truth and must thump us with his interpretation of the Bible, as only he knows the truth. I almost forgot for a moment that he is a “Bible Believer” so he can’t err, not is he held to the same standards as everyone else. He can judge us, but we can’t respond or we are brainwashed. He can yell at us, (in a cyber manner) but when we use the same tactics as he does, we are being mean and angry. Ronism gets quite a chuckle from those I’ve shared his rants with.

    #7970
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    LARoberts Has a few words to express:

    [quote:223cuqrv]Well, among the first requirements of the Catholic Church is to believe on Christ Jesus. So based on the minimalist logic of the Fundie Evangelicals, Catholics as they Believe are “Saved” [/quote:223cuqrv]

    Are you really saved as a Catholic? His word tells us that He did everything (It is finished) to save us with His Blood but your church talks of Purgatory as a place to get sins purged, of faith PLUS your works as being needed, that we can go to Mary and others with prayers, that sacraments are the means to merit salvation. Tell me LARoberts what is it that you believe Jesus did at Calvary since you deny what the Bible tells us so you can believe in those things????

    [quote:223cuqrv]Lets just set aside for a moment the fact that Ronism ingores the many instances in sacred scripture where we read that you must be born of water and the spirit, and that the Ethiopian after hearing the message of Christ wishes to be baptized without any delay. We don’t want to get into the entire families and crowds who hear the message and want to be baptized, where the scriptures do not support Ronism by saying, “Except Babies and Children.”[/quote:223cuqrv]
    Yes the Bible says believe and be baptised, note that the salvation is dealt with first in believing then the Baptising. But you show your faith is twisted by thinking that Baptism does it.

    [quote:223cuqrv]Oops, almost forgot to say, no offence Ron, just trying to educate you about the historical teachings of the Church that existed long before your beliefs where invented by men in the 16th Century, and even before the New Testament was written. [/quote:223cuqrv]
    Not so as Jesus said every thing in Scriptures will happen, that the Word will happen – guaranteed – This was before the Bible was even written so my beliefs go back to Jesus not your so-called church history

    [quote:223cuqrv]Guess these folks where not saved either, as they held the same faith as the Catholic Church continues to hold, and they did not have ol King James and his mandated translation to misquote. [/quote:223cuqrv]
    If they believe as today’s Catholic then you are right, I guess these folks were not saved either.
    [quote:223cuqrv]
    Then again, according to Ron’s actions, he is not held accountable. Ron can rant and rave that only he knows the truth and must thump us with his interpretation of the Bible, as only he knows the truth. I almost forgot for a moment that he is a “Bible Believer” so he can’t err, not is he held to the same standards as everyone else. He can judge us, but we can’t respond or we are brainwashed. He can yell at us, (in a cyber manner) but when we use the same tactics as he does, we are being mean and angry. Ronism gets quite a chuckle from those I’ve shared his rants with. [/quote:223cuqrv]
    You forgot the word sarcastic at the end too! <img loading=” title=”Smile” />

    [b:223cuqrv]You also posted this:[/b:223cuqrv]

    [quote:223cuqrv]I can just imagine him in a dress and wig, like the guy who played the “Church Lady” on the old Saturday Night Live. I was never up late enough to watch the entire program, but I have seen tapes of the Church Lady… Smug, always ignoring the whole picture and distorting what others said. Much the same Ronald distorts my suggestion that he look over his webpage for contradictory statements he makes and wanders off into an entirely different universe talking about how his content agrees with those of other diluded Anti-Catholics. [/quote:223cuqrv]

    I think your words were
    [quote:223cuqrv]on other boards where I have read and observed the same shameless behavior[/quote:223cuqrv]
    yet you say that I distorted them?????

    [quote:223cuqrv]At least as Catholics we can use humor, and parody, be it Rabid Anti-Catholics, or ourselves. One of the main reasons for this is the Protestant mind, as it gets closer to Calvin and the Puritan Movements, has no room for humor. Unlike Catholics who believe in a God who loves us because we are His creation, and reaches out to us out of Love, and because He sees in us the potential to be elevated to what He intended for mankind before the fall, (when we attain the Beatific Vision).

    The Protestant looks at the world from the point of being of no value to God, a total reprobate, unworthy of God’s mercy. Lutheran Theology describes mankind and our souls as being dung hills. God tricks Himself and looks away, ignoring our reprobate souls and covers us in grace despite our unworthiness. However as Catholics God sees us as sons and daughters who have fallen into error, and calls us back to Him because He as our Creator sees what we can become, rather than looking only at our rejection of Him. [/quote:223cuqrv]
    Sees what you’ve become? my oh my LARoberts I’m sure you really are making an impression on Christ – NOT read Isaiah 64:6 for your proper perpective or Luke 18:10-13 for you are sounding much like the Pharisee.
    Ever hear about humility?

    [quote:223cuqrv]Catholics we believe that God is merciful, and deals with each soul based on the knowledge they have of Him. In the case of an Aboriginal man who has never heard the Good News, or been baptized God will deal with Him according to His mercy. We do not know, even though theologians have speculated; After death God may give this pagan full knowledge of the truth and allow him to choose God or reject Him. He may give the soul of a just pagan who has never been evangelized a place of perfect happiness, (Limbo). The Church has never defined what the disposition of that soul is, because it has not been revealed to us. [/quote:223cuqrv]

    Lets just say it the way Jesus did in Matthew 22:29 – you error not knowing Scriptures

    [quote:223cuqrv]In the case of lapsed Catholics who take the Rabid Anti-Catholic stance of people like Ron. God will not stop sending grace even though Ron may for the present time refuse it and continue to blind himself to historical facts, and any point of view that does not concur with his own authority, and his own interpretation, which when it disagrees with the other people who write in the “Christian” newspaper he “writes” for, he rejects and condemns as Non-Biblical*. The Church teaches that we cannot do as he does, and proclaim them to be damned, or “not saved” as he by his limiting of God an His mercy does. [/quote:223cuqrv]
    I think you mean YOUR church, not THE Church

    [quote:223cuqrv]Ron, at least at the present time appears to be suffering from Invincible Ignorance. Invincible Ignorance is a state in which someone cannot hear the Truth of God and the Message of Christ Jesus which He gave to His Church in order to spread the message of salvation to the ends of the world. In Ron’s case, it would appear that he is so vested in his errors, and so prejudiced against the Church, that he cannot or refuses to accept what she teaches, and has held since being commissioned by Christ. As Catholics we cannot dismiss Ronald or anyone else to hellfire, we must depend on God to make that final determination. Thus as individual Catholics we are relieved of the burden of making Judgements for God, and condemning others based on our own determination of how someone’s soul will be judged by God. [/quote:223cuqrv]
    Boy this one has it all – mean, angry, and sarcastic WOW

    [quote:223cuqrv]*Having read copies of the paper online, it would appear that most anyone can submit an article and have it published if they live in the area, and claim to be a Christian. Some of the writers have even included Catholics and Catholic Ritual and Tradition as a valid Christian alternative. Seems odd that Ronald would be a part of such an evil paper as one that accepts the Catholic faith, (at least on the part of some article submissions). Run, don’t walk away from your paper Ron, you may learn tact and tollerance for others, (which does not imply acceptance of their viewpoints.)
    [/quote:223cuqrv]
    Well at least you are reading something that might help you <img loading=” title=”Smile” />

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