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Peace be with you,
Hey, I stumbled across this website[/url:2wargdtb]. I was impressed with the details, prayers, etc… But on a closer exam I discovered this:
[url:2wargdtb]http://www.truecatholic.org/grpage.htm[/url:2wargdtb]
And this:
[url:2wargdtb]http://www.truecatholic.org/pope/[/url:2wargdtb]
Has anyone heard of these “secret / true” Catholics before? I think this could make for an interesting thread of discussion! And let me offer this too; we need to pray hard for these lost brothers and sisters. Read what they have to say and their “Pope” and I see schizoid – paranoia!
Fred,
I’ll respond more in-depth later because I need to go to work now, but this group looks like some of those traditionalists that reject pretty much everything the Catholic Church has done starting with Vatican II and beyond. It’s very ridiculous.
I believe Mel Gibson is a part of one of these traditionalist groups if I am not mistaken.
I just yesterday joined a discussion board for traditionalist Catholics. They take a mostly if not wholly negative view of “modernist/neo-Catholicism” and some even go so far as to embrace sedevacantism to justify their views.
Peace be with you Jon and Benedict,
[quote:6f33zjhy]some even go so far as to embrace sedevacantism to justify their views.[/quote:6f33zjhy]
Jon,
You beat me to the punch! lol I’m was not sure on that one either. I found this explanation[/url:6f33zjhy].
In fairness here[/url:6f33zjhy] is the decenting view.
Benedict,
You are a well of knowledge that I’m moving my chair next to! lol I’m going to The Catholic Distance University[/url:6f33zjhy] and haven’t gotten’ that far yet.
” title=”Smile” />What concerns me is that with all that we Catholics have to leave and defend, most of the time, you come upon this and they try to miss lead the faithful by claiming falsely that they are the true Church. Yet they hide themselves and openly attack that which they were part of. The weaker members of the flock could be swayed, sheep stealing, and then they are lost to Christ.
How does one go about preventing this without judging or attacking in the same method the use on you?
Fred,
[quote:cqdyco2u]How does one go about preventing this without judging or attacking in the same method the use on you?[/quote:cqdyco2u]
I was guilty of using their same methods when I first started defending the Catholic faith, but I have since decided to not respond in a manner which expresses emotion, but systematically answers the charge leveled against the Church.So if someone were to say “Catholics are all going to hell because they worship Mary” I would simply explain the Church’s teaching on the Communion of Saints and Mary’s role in God’s plan.
I try not to engage in banter. I don’t like heated exchanges either. That’s one reason for the no debate rule on my website.
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Peace be with you Jon,
What helps me with the emotional response is touching my Rosary I carry in my pocket. I know that sounds silly, but it reminds me of who I am defending and why.
” title=”Very Happy” />Fred
For anyone who does not want to read the articles, sedevacantists (which means empty chair) believe that the office of Pope is currently empty. Nearly every sedevacantist believes this vacancy predated and continued through the reign Pope Paul VI.
It is an untenable position, a justification after the fact because of disagreements with Paul VI and those after him.
Boy, I feel kind of silly now. I kept reading it as “sedevaticanist”. I guess I was reading it too quickly.
[quote:1zn5h8cr]Nearly every sedevacantist believes this vacancy predated and continued through the reign Pope Paul VI. [/quote:1zn5h8cr]
If it predated Paul VI, then when did it start?
Definitely after Pope St. Pius X. Whether Blessed John XXIII was Pope is up for debate.
Peace be with you Jon and Benedict,
From what I’ve been able to read, this started after 1958 with Pius the XII death. The spur to all of this was Vatican II.
I find it hard to except anything they state. Especially since they are secret about where they are and who makes up the College of Cardinals and so fourth. Sounds like a few mad fallen Catholics in a basement trying to read the bible and forgetting their Prozac.
” title=”Smile” />I know unchristian, but they say we are decided by Satan and that he sits as Pope in Rome now. Very hard for me to except!
Fred,
Most are much friendlier in “person” (over a message board) but the fact remains that they cannot consider us anything but dupes of Satan and the false leaders of the hierarchy.
Many believe that the Novus Ordo consecration is invalid because of a trivial word change (the words of consecration espoused by our Lord and the Church throughout Her 2000 years remain), so to them we would be nothing less than idolaters in receiving the Eucharist and participating in Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament.
For the most part, radical Traditionalists do not have much to stand on concerning their views in light of Church teaching. So, we get sedevacantists – Church teaching is not true Church teaching.
This kind of thing ranks right up there with the people who preach how wonderful it is that the Catholic Church has the magisterium to keep it straight, but yet when the magisterium says something they disagree with then the bishops are all wrong.
[quote:1srviybk]so to them we would be nothing less than idolaters in receiving the Eucharist and participating in Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. [/quote:1srviybk]
Not much different than Fundamentalists or Evangelicals… :what:
Peace be with you Jon and Benedict,
[i:sljpp9no][quote:sljpp9no]This kind of thing ranks right up there with the people who preach how wonderful it is that the Catholic Church has the magisterium to keep it straight, but yet when the magisterium says something they disagree with then the bishops are all wrong.[/quote:sljpp9no][/i:sljpp9no]
So true. They want their “cake and eat it too”.
[i:sljpp9no][quote:sljpp9no]Many believe that the Novus Ordo consecration is invalid because of a trivial word change (the words of consecration espoused by our Lord and the Church throughout Her 2000 years remain), so to them we would be nothing less than idolaters in receiving the Eucharist and participating in Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament. [/quote:sljpp9no][/i:sljpp9no]
So this change occurred be cause of a word change? This whole thing smells vaguely of Martin Luther.” title=”Sad” />Fred,
I think there must be a distiction between “traditionalist” catholics and the catholics mentioned in this discussion.
There is for example an order called the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter who celebrate a latin mass and are still in line with the Pope. These priests should not be confused with the priests who have elected thier own pope.
This order has been granted permission from the Pope and acknowledge him as our true pope.
I wouldn’t tag Mel Gibson’s name to the order that has broken from the church. As far as I know, he is involved with the order that celebrates the latin mass and is obediant to Pope John Paul.
For more info on the Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter visit http://www.unavoce.org
[quote:2nxg33lw]I think there must be a distiction between “traditionalist” catholics and the catholics mentioned in this discussion.[/quote:2nxg33lw]
Good point!” title=”Smile” />The traditionalist Catholics in this discussion are the ones that could more accurately be classified as Catholic Fundamentalists. Kind of an oxymoron in one sense.
I thought I read from several sources that Mel was one of the splinter group Catholics, but I could be wrong.
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” title=”Very Happy” />
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