Salvation part 2

Home Forums Everything Else Salvation part 2

Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 42 total)
  • Author
    Posts
  • #5842
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Uncertaindrummer, You say:
    [quote:1rv5bb98]
    Did you denounce logic sometime in your life, Ron? You are quoting scripture to show us your idea of Scripture.
    [/quote:1rv5bb98]
    It sure beats your mis-interpretation to see what the Bible says (so much for denouncing logic) What part of it don’t you understand?

    [quote:1rv5bb98]
    Let me ask you; How do you know 1 Thssalonians is the inspired word of God? How do you know? The answer: You don’t know. You relied on the Catholic Church’s council to declare it was inspired. Without that, you’ve got nothing.[/quote:1rv5bb98]

    Didn’t you bother to read my last posting stating where Scriptures comes from? Answer – from the disciples whom received it from the Holy Spirit –
    All things considered rather then to argue how we got the Bible, since we agree about the New Testament, why is it you don’t do what the Bible tells us?

    #5843
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Like I said, you have denounced logic. You are taking the assumption that everything the AQpostles wrote was inspired, and THEN you are making the assumption that these books were written by the Apostles, and THEN you aren’t explaining how we know which Old Testament books are inspired because NONE of them were written by the Apostles!

    Sorry Ron, but you don’t have a clue why you believe in the Bible, so why should I even consider swallowing your interpretation of it?

    #5844
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Uncertaindrummer says:

    [quote:6c82pqy0]Like I said, you have denounced logic. You are taking the assumption that everything the AQpostles wrote was inspired, and THEN you are making the assumption that these books were written by the Apostles, and THEN you aren’t explaining how we know which Old Testament books are inspired because NONE of them were written by the Apostles!

    Sorry Ron, but you don’t have a clue why you believe in the Bible, so why should I even consider swallowing your interpretation of it? [/quote:6c82pqy0]

    there you go again assuming what I know and what I believe instead of checking out my beliefs! I don’t think you know what or how one gets saved but you’ll start throwing out these “assumptions” and then to avoid them all together, you decide to Bail out? Why don’t you discuss these issues instead of trying not to face them? Talk about denouncing logic!!!!

    #5845
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    *sigh*

    You are impossible. I KNOW you believe the Bible is inspired, and I KNOW you don’t know why you believe that. You can’t refute that. I wish you would try but you refuse.

    Here’s a good way to start: How do you know 1 Thessalonians is inspired? It is a simple question. You would think it would be easy to answer. If you can’t answer it, then I am vindicated in my belief that you do not know why you believe in the Holy Spirit’s inspiration of the Bible.

    #5846
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Uncertaindrummer – you want to know how we got the Bible?
    This is satisfaction enough for me –

    [u:2e93jzh9][b:2e93jzh9]Who gave us the scriptures?[/b:2e93jzh9][/u:2e93jzh9]
    [quote:2e93jzh9]
    The Roman church says they proclaimed which books were actually inspired and placed them in one volume, so we should all be indebted to the Catholic Church for the New Testament. Actually the Catholic Church in 397 the Council of Carthage had the 27 books considered the canon. However these books were read and distributed as Ccripture for over 300 years by individual Christians and church’s long before their church councils claimed to give us the Bible. The Synod of Antioch in 266 AD. had rejected Paul of Samosata’s teaching (a modalist) as foreign to the ecclesiastical canon. Athanasius, who fought to preserve the Trinity in the council of Nicea in 325 Ad. when the Church was being challenged had all 27 books of the New Testament. When Athanasius argued in his debate against Arius he used much of the New Testament and quoted from almost every book. He said they were the springs of salvation do not add nor take away.

    Almost 40 years later the council of Laodicea in 363 A.D. decreed that only canonized books of the old and new Testament were to be read in the Church’s. None of the councils made any list of what is in or out, the reason being that the majority of the church had accepted and used these books for many years before them. Are we to accept the premise that 300 years passed with confusion and we waited for the church to decide in 397 A.D. what was to be our Scripture? Generations would have come and gone not having the whole Bible. The truth is that we can produce almost the entire Bible we have today from the early church writings in the mid 100’s to 200’s.

    In 397 Ad. the council of Carthage put their approval on the canon that was already read by and throughout the church. It then became a fixed canon for the western church as it was for the eastern.

    The word canon means rule of faith, the standard in which we measure and evaluate something is true or right and from god. The word for canonicity comes from the Greek word Kanon which is found in Gal.6:16 Peace and mercy to all who follow this rule. How did the church determine what was to be scripture and what was to be rejected. The Roman Catholic church states they gave us the Bible, is this true?

    First they determined was it authoritative- did it come as thus saith the Lord, did they recognize God’s voice in it. Did it have the life transforming power of God when it was applied.

    Was the author an apostle or was he connected to an apostle (known as a apostolic legate). An example of this is Mark wrote under Peters authority and Luke wrote his Gospel and book of Acts under Paul’s authority. Was it accepted and received by the other apostles who were eye witnesses. such as when Peter stated that Pauls writings were considered Scripture as they were being written ( 2 Pt.3:15-16).

    Was it accepted by the overall church. Did the people bear witness of it by the Holy Spirit and did it not conflict with the already revealed body of Scripture. The Church was able to reject false books and this would insure the right ones were accepted because it would delay their recognition. At that time and even hundreds of years afterwards, there were numerous false letters and forgeries circulating, they identified them as false by putting them alongside the apostles teachings already delivered. They have the content that was consistent with the already accepted writings.

    Did the books have the quality and inspiration that was consistent with the word of God. It was for this reason the Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha were rejected by not meeting the criteria.

    So the test was by the eye witnesses or by Scripture itself. In the same way today we would reject the book of Mormon, we don’t need to have to have a church council and have bishops test it, each of us can apply the scriptural test as we are encouraged to do in 1 Thess.5, “test all things.” So if these letters taught doctrine contrary to what was already delivered or contradict practices of Christian living already given it was rejected. Also if they lacked the prophetic and had inaccuracies historically it was refused.

    There originally was no church council to decide what books were to be included in the canon. They were recognized by the consensus of the entire body of the church not by a council of bishops. The books were written under the inspiration of God, they were canonical the moment they were written. A council was not necessary to affirm what was already true. No book became canonical by the action of a church council in the same way the Old Testamnet books were not decided upon by the Sanhedrin. What the council did was to determine which books did not meet the tests for canonicity. There were no books written from 30-45 A.D. because believers had access to the apostles who were living eyewitnesses. Christ’s return was imminent. So there was no immediate concern to write it down. The New Testament started to penned down approximately 15-20 years after the ascension. Since many of the apostles were alive there was no reason to write, they also thought Christ’s return was imminent so it was not necessary. When the church had its first martyr Stephen, then they were persecuted and scattered, it then became necessary to pen down the teachings. It was from this event that letters were copied and circulated so that the teachings would not be lost or changed. As the apostles went out they shared the writings and commanded them to be passed on to others. The apostles put their writings into circulation through the church. “I charge you by the Lord that this epistle be read to all the holy brethren.” (1 Cor. 1:2 and Eph.1:1) We have examples of letters to be read to all in scripture 1 Thess.5:27, “to be read to all the church’s” Col.4:16, “read to the church of Colosse and the Laodiceans” Gal.1:21, “to the church’s of Galatia.” Jesus tells John the apostle in Rev 1:11saying, “I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,” and, “What you see, write in a book and send it to the seven churches which are in Asia: to Ephesus, to Smyrna, to Pergamos, to Thyatira, to Sardis, to Philadelphia, and to Laodicea.”

    All the New Testament books were written between 45-75 A.D excluding the apostle Johns writings, which occurred later in 80-95 A.D. There were schools of Scribes (scholia) that copied the Ccripture by hearing, also lecture rooms were people would copy down what they heard. From the beginning the church copied and shared the original documents to circulate the apostles writings. By 170 A.D. most of the Bible had already been approved and read by the church and the term New Tetstamet was in use. This was long before any council. To protect the writings from being lost they were copied for distribution. First were the Pauline epistles next were the 4 gospels in one work, then Acts 1 Pt., 1 Jn., Revelation all these were accepted in both the East and the West (these were called Homologumena= all books accepted by the entire church). Their was James and Jude, 2nd and 3rd John, 2nd Peter, Hebrews which were disputed books because they were not familiar with them, these 6 books were accepted later (these are called Antilogumena= books accepted by some of the church). Their were also false books circulating by authors who claimed to be an apostle or penned an apostles name. They were considered false because it contradicted the writings previously delivered, Ex. The 1st miracle of Jesus was that he did miracles as a boy not change the water to wine (these were called Notha = writings claiming inspiration but were false). Some of these ended up being in the Koran. By the 2nd century we find the expression the New Testament. If all the Gospels were the same it would be a clear case of collusion we would then have a question of their validity.

    Many of the church fathers (bishops, pastors) quote the New Testament. Such as Polycarp (69-155 A.D.), quoting much of the New Testament (Matt., Acts, Hebrews, 1 Pt. And 10 of Paul’s letters) his letter to the Philippians. Justin Martyr (100-160 A.D.) quotes all 4 Gospels, Acts and the epistles of Paul and Revelation. Portions of the gospels were read every Sunday in church. Clement, of Alexandria (165-220 AD) names all the books of the New Testament except Philemon, James, 2 Peter and 3 John. Irenaeus (135-210 A.D.) quotes from all the New Testament books except Philemon, Jude, James and 3 John. Origen 185-254 names all the books of both the Old and New Testaments. 160-240. In 300 A.D. Athanasius referred to all 27 books of the New Testament represented in the eastern church. He said “they were the springs of salvation do not add nor take away,” so he had already decided what was truly the Scripture. Tertullian who was a contemporary of both Origen and Clement mentions all the New Testament books minus James, 2 Peter and 2 John. Eusebius gave explanations and quotations from all the canonical books. They had their authority from the primary authority found in the writings of the apostles which made up the Bible.

    We can produce almost all the New Testament from the church fathers writings and quotations before the year 150 A.D. proving that there was no church government to approve of what was in or out. The Scripture is God breathed, its origin is with God, it is not man given (2 Pt.1:21). The churches commission is to protect and promote the word as she is the pillar and ground of truth. Jesus said he was the truth and his word was truth to abandon this source puts one outside being called the church.

    Jesus said my sheep hear my voice, they will flee from the voice of stranger. Jn.17:8, “I have given them your words you have given me.” John 8:47, “He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.” When Jesus was questioned by Pilate he was asked what is truth. He said ‘everyone who hears my voice is of the truth.” His voice is found in the Scriptures delivered to us today.

    John 8:30-32 ” As He spoke these words, many believed in Him. Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. “And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” In Jn.17:7, Jesus said His word is truth” because it was spoken from Him, truth incarnate.

    John 14:24-26, “He who does not love Me does not keep My words; and the word which you hear is not Mine but the Father’s who sent Me. “These things I have spoken to you while being present with you. “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you.” The purpose of the Spirit is to bear witness to Jesus and His words

    John 16:12-14 “I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. “However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. “He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you.” The Spirit guides us and only speaks what Christ says. He does not teach new doctrine!

    Jn2:20-21 “But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you know all things. I have not written to you because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and that no lie is of the truth. The spirit is given to teach us and lead us to truth this is not found in any man today but the God/man who already came.

    I Jn. 3:2 ” Now he who keeps His commandments abides in Him, and He in him. And by this we know that He abides in us, by the Spirit whom He has given us.” There is no Christian without the inner witness which bears witness to the word as our guide. It is the Spirit that is the teaching authority of the church not the Pope or any anointed man. the spirit was sent into the world to convince of sin righteousness and judgment. He is another just like Jesus.

    The church did not give us the Bible the apostles did, and they began the church that Jesus founded. The Bible can exist where there is no church building or assembly but the church cannot exist where there is no Bible.

    The Holy Spirit wrote it all down so there would be no mistakes. The Holy Spirit is the source of Scripture and all believers are given him to interpret what he wrote. What better guide and teacher can we have than the same one who inspired the apostles to write Scriptures.[/quote:2e93jzh9]

    [b:2e93jzh9]If this isn’t good enough for you then try this one out -[/b:2e93jzh9]

    [color=darkred:2e93jzh9]http://www.catholic.com/library/proving_inspiration.asp[/color:2e93jzh9]

    [color=red:2e93jzh9][u:2e93jzh9][b:2e93jzh9]NOW can we continue to look at what is inside???[/b:2e93jzh9][/u:2e93jzh9][/color:2e93jzh9]

    #5847
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Ron, I already read that.

    It doesn’t prove anything.

    You can’t even show me why ONE book of the Bible is inspired by God much less the whole thing, so why should I bother talking about books which you aren’t even sure of?

    #5848
    Anonymous
    Inactive


    [quote:24dp7923]Ron, I already read that.

    It doesn’t prove anything.

    You can’t even show me why ONE book of the Bible is inspired by God much less the whole thing, so why should I bother talking about books which you aren’t even sure of? [/quote:24dp7923]

    [b:24dp7923][i:24dp7923]Simply because it is your salvation depending upon it! Why should I “bother” if you don’t care?[/i:24dp7923][/b:24dp7923]

    #5849
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [color=darkred:3cykrrez]Ok fellas, let’s get back on topic.

    [b:3cykrrez]From the Purgatory thread Ron said:[/b:3cykrrez][/color:3cykrrez]
    [quote:3cykrrez]I’ve explained that nothing we do except believing in what Jesus did at Calvary nearly 2000 years ago, will get them into Heaven, no amount of anything we do can help get anyone into Heaven, that works comes after the faith part just as Ephesians 2:10 follows verses 8+9, faith alone saves.
    The works just reflect what one believes. For instance, to believe in a place such as Purgatory proves that you don’t believe Jesus took care of your sins. [/quote:3cykrrez]

    [color=darkred:3cykrrez]Let’s see if I understand you correctly.
    -The only thing one must DO is believe in what Jesus Christ did at Calvary.

    You do not have to believe:
    1. The ten commandments
    2. In the Trinity
    3. In Heaven and Hell
    And a list of other things that most all Christians believe. Surely you believe in these things Ron? I’m quite certain you do. Your simplisitic faith of “Believe in Jesus” is a loaded statement that if I was to push you would see a list of things YOU MUST believe. But we can’t have a list right Ron? Cause if you do, your going to be just like them lost Catholics. :rolleyes:

    I await your clarification.[/color:3cykrrez]

    #5850
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Look Victor, this is not a Game,

    Salvation is a free gift for all who believe in Jesus (Romans 6:23)

    Believe what about Jesus? That He took our sins to the cross and gave us His righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21) We aren’t going before the Father on judgment day resting in how righteous we got because our righteousness is as filty rags (Isaiah 64:6)

    Do we get it by works? not ours but His (John 6:28,29) You can’t believe that we will be judged upon our degree of attaining righteousness because we’d be like the Isrealites of Romans 9:31,32 and 10:2+3 Furthermore if we have to earn it then it isn’t a gift, nor free but a wage. God is in the grace department

    If you defend Purgatory, you are proving then that His work at Calvary wasn’t good enought.

    Is this to hard to understand?

    #5851
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:12m2dnqc]Look Victor, this is not a Game,[/quote:12m2dnqc]

    [color=darkred:12m2dnqc]Where in my post am I suggesting that it is?[/color:12m2dnqc]

    [quote:12m2dnqc]Salvation is a free gift for all who believe in Jesus (Romans 6:23)[/quote:12m2dnqc]

    [color=darkred:12m2dnqc]Amen![/color:12m2dnqc]

    [quote:12m2dnqc]Believe what about Jesus? That He took our sins to the cross and gave us His righteousness (2 Corinthians 5:21) We aren’t going before the Father on judgment day resting in how righteous we got because our righteousness is as filty rags (Isaiah 64:6)[/quote:12m2dnqc]

    [color=darkred:12m2dnqc]I gave specific examples:
    1. The ten commandments
    2. In the Trinity
    3. In Heaven and Hell
    You have chosen to go down your own path as always. Please answer my question. I’m not going to go down this road with you again. Do you have to believe in what I noted and other essential beliefs to be saved? [/color:12m2dnqc]

    [quote:12m2dnqc]Do we get it by works? not ours but His (John 6:28,29) You can’t believe that we will be judged upon our degree of attaining righteousness because we’d be like the Isrealites of Romans 9:31,32 and 10:2+3 Furthermore if we have to earn it then it isn’t a gift, nor free but a wage. God is in the grace department.[/quote:12m2dnqc]

    [color=darkred:12m2dnqc]Ron, you have to remember that most issues discussed in regards to works is talking about Judaic Law. Or as I told you before works done outside of Grace. Works done in Grace are perfectly acceptable to God. The only time someone asks Christ what they must do to be saved
    the rich young man asking Our Lord, “What must I do to be saved?” is answered the same today: “Obey the commandments”, i.e., Love of God, love of neighbor. So when we do works it is only a response to God’s Will. A crucial question that I would like to get your thoughts on is if a person does not produce any works, do they go to heaven?[/color:12m2dnqc]

    [quote:12m2dnqc]If you defend Purgatory, you are proving then that His work at Calvary wasn’t good enougth. [/quote:12m2dnqc]

    [color=darkred:12m2dnqc]Hogwash! That is not because Christ’s work is not enough. It’s rather the application of the work of Jesus Christ. Purgatory is not a second chance either. Understand this and we can move forward.[/color:12m2dnqc]

    [quote:12m2dnqc]Is this to hard to understand?[/quote:12m2dnqc]

    [color=darkred:12m2dnqc]Not at all. <img loading=” title=”Smile” /> [/color:12m2dnqc]

    #5852
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Victor said

    [quote:1sje3ppp]
    I gave specific examples:
    1. The ten commandments
    2. In the Trinity
    3. In Heaven and Hell
    You have chosen to go down your own path as always. Please answer my question. I’m not going to go down this road with you again. Do you have to believe in what I noted and other essential beliefs to be saved?[/quote:1sje3ppp]

    Not really likely that anyone would believe one way without knowing the others…. but No, not really – example the thief on the cross or any deathbed type conversions

    [quote:1sje3ppp]
    Ron, you have to remember that most issues discussed in regards to works is talking about Judaic Law. Or as I told you before works done outside of Grace. [/quote:1sje3ppp]
    Where does it say only Judaic law – or did we forget Romans 11:6?

    [quote:1sje3ppp]The only time someone asks Christ what they must do to be saved
    the rich young man asking Our Lord, “What must I do to be saved?” is answered the same today: “Obey the commandments”, i.e., Love of God, love of neighbor. So when we do works it is only a response to God’s Will[/quote:1sje3ppp]

    do you know anyone that can keep these laws PERFECTLY? I don’t think so
    and since Jesus is the only one, don’t you think we should submit to His ways? What works that you list will remove even one sin? [color=red:1sje3ppp][b:1sje3ppp]NONE[/b:1sje3ppp][/color:1sje3ppp]

    [quote:1sje3ppp]A crucial question that I would like to get your thoughts on is if a person does not produce any works, do they go to heaven? [/quote:1sje3ppp]

    Like the thief, there are some that will yes as in deathbed conversions If a person doesn’t have works over some time I’d question his faith but understand that works are a result or evidence about one’s saved or not, they do not remove sin.

    [quote:1sje3ppp]Hogwash! That is not because Christ’s work is not enough. It’s rather the application of the work of Jesus Christ. Purgatory is not a second chance either. Understand this and we can move forward. [/quote:1sje3ppp]
    I understand that Purgatory is not there and is NOT in the Bible!
    It is simply “Hogwash” indeed!

    [quote:1sje3ppp]Not at all. [/quote:1sje3ppp]

    Then why don’t you????

    #5853
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:1augh6jq]Not really likely that anyone would believe one way without knowing the others…. but No, not really – example the thief on the cross or any deathbed type conversions.[/quote:1augh6jq]
    [color=darkred:1augh6jq]You have to be kidding Ron? Essential beliefs in Christianity is exactly what’s being debated every day. One can in fact believe Christ died for your sins and deny the Trinity for example. Your claim has no basis in reality.[/color:1augh6jq]
    [quote:1augh6jq]Where does it say only Judaic law – or did we forget Romans 11:6?[/quote:1augh6jq]
    [color=darkred:1augh6jq]Paul specifically begins Chaper 11 by noting his ancestry in the Tribe of Benjamin. The context is there for you to see it’s relationship with Judaic Law.[/color:1augh6jq]
    [quote:1augh6jq]do you know anyone that can keep these laws PERFECTLY?[/quote:1augh6jq]
    [color=darkred:1augh6jq]Nope. But I don’t see it as an impossibility though. [/color:1augh6jq]
    [quote:1augh6jq]I don’t think so and since Jesus is the only one, don’t you think we should submit to His ways?[/quote:1augh6jq]
    [color=darkred:1augh6jq]No I do not. Cause according to you all you have to do is believe. Submission is not part of the deal according to you. :mrgreen:
    Of course you have to submit to his ways!![/color:1augh6jq]
    [quote:1augh6jq]What works that you list will remove even one sin? [b:1augh6jq]NONE[/b:1augh6jq][/quote:1augh6jq]
    [color=darkred:1augh6jq]Outside of Christ, none.[/color:1augh6jq]
    [quote:1augh6jq]Like the thief, there are some that will yes as in deathbed conversions If a person doesn’t have works over some time I’d question his faith but understand that works are a result or evidence about one’s saved or not, they do not remove sin. [/quote:1augh6jq]
    [color=darkred:1augh6jq]So the normative means of salvation is that they should produce works? If they don’t and aren’t dieing in a bed or cross then you would question their faith. Are works [b:1augh6jq]guranteed[/b:1augh6jq] in true believers?[/color:1augh6jq]
    [quote:1augh6jq]I understand that Purgatory is not there and is NOT in the Bible! It is simply “Hogwash” indeed![/quote:1augh6jq]
    [color=darkred:1augh6jq]Childish babble from someone who has shown not to understand Catholicism. I hardly think anyone that knows the difference takes you serious.[/color:1augh6jq]
    [quote:1augh6jq]Then why don’t you????[/quote:1augh6jq]
    [color=darkred:1augh6jq]Point out where I have misunderstood you. <img loading=:” title=”Question” /> [/color:1augh6jq]

    #5854
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [i:1lx0m475][b:1lx0m475]Victor you said:[/b:1lx0m475][/i:1lx0m475]
    [quote:1lx0m475]You have to be kidding Ron? Essential beliefs in Christianity is exactly what’s being debated every day. One can in fact believe Christ died for your sins and deny the Trinity for example. Your claim has no basis in reality. [/quote:1lx0m475]

    [i:1lx0m475][b:1lx0m475]I gave you two examples – who’s kiddng there[/b:1lx0m475][/i:1lx0m475]?

    [quote:1lx0m475]Paul specifically begins Chaper 11 by noting his ancestry in the Tribe of Benjamin. The context is there for you to see it’s relationship with Judaic Law. [/quote:1lx0m475]

    [i:1lx0m475][b:1lx0m475]The Bible does not make that distinction – Paul notes his ancestry but those are two different lines of thought – works of any kind are still works and that is clearly against grace![/b:1lx0m475][/i:1lx0m475]

    [quote:1lx0m475]Nope. But I don’t see it as an impossibility though[/quote:1lx0m475]

    [i:1lx0m475][b:1lx0m475]good luck finding one – the Bible says that the righteous man sins seven times daily and that the heart of man is desperately wicked[/b:1lx0m475][/i:1lx0m475]

    [quote:1lx0m475]according to you all you have to do is believe[/quote:1lx0m475]

    [i:1lx0m475][b:1lx0m475]Have you ever read Romans 4:4-6? or John 6:28-29? or how about Romans 6:23 (The second half?)[/b:1lx0m475][/i:1lx0m475]

    [quote:1lx0m475]Outside of Christ, none.[/quote:1lx0m475]

    [i:1lx0m475][b:1lx0m475]Until you believe you will remain outside of Christ[/b:1lx0m475][/i:1lx0m475]

    [quote:1lx0m475]Are works guranteed in true believers? [/quote:1lx0m475]

    [i:1lx0m475][b:1lx0m475]How is that verse oh yes….faith without works is dead[/b:1lx0m475][/i:1lx0m475]

    [quote:1lx0m475]Childish babble from someone who has shown not to understand Catholicism. I hardly think anyone that knows the difference takes you serious. [/quote:1lx0m475]

    [i:1lx0m475][b:1lx0m475]This is one area that you don’t get for sure or you won’t talk so foolish[/b:1lx0m475][/i:1lx0m475]

    [quote:1lx0m475]Point out where I have misunderstood you.[/quote:1lx0m475]

    [i:1lx0m475][b:1lx0m475]Salvation, and on and on and on …….[/b:1lx0m475][/i:1lx0m475]

    #5855
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I’m done with you Ron. You can have the victory or security or whatever it is you were seeking in coming to a Catholic forum. Understanding was certainly not an intention you came here for. That is blatantly obvious by now.

    Peace be with you
    ~Victor

    #5856
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Victory? Why because I can answer you with some intellegence? You turning away doesn’t make me win anything any more then those that simply don’t talk about it. You are still a Catholic under deception. Please continue to read my articles as they try to explain the deceptions that bind Catholics. I have one on your “mass” soon. You can find me at http://www.freewebs.com/gospellightmin/
    Peace Victor Peace

    #5857

    You know, I’m not so sure the 4 of us are actually arguing anything. It seems like we’re just slinging things around and not really trying to address anything specific.

    Ron’s asking about purgatory, then all of the sudden it’s about the authenticity of the Bible and interpretations of certain verses, then a few personal attacks.

    It’s getting a little out of hand and I’m pretty close to locking this thread because it’s going nowhere. <img loading=” title=”Sad” />

    #5858
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:3897ko8v]a few personal attacks[/quote:3897ko8v]

    Where did I attack anyone? I just ask questions and answer them.

    #5859

    [quote:37xgx56x]Where did I attack anyone? I just ask questions and answer them.[/quote:37xgx56x]
    You just want to debate everything, don’t you? :x

    It wasn’t specifically directed at you. It’s a message to all involved. Maybe you did, maybe you didn’t. I’m not going to go back through each post and point out who said what.

    #5860
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:3qryat8k]You just want to debate everything, don’t you? [/quote:3qryat8k]

    Well yes! You are still Catholic and isn’t that the purpose of you having a website such as this?

    #5861

    No, actually it’s not. The purpose of this website is to inform people of Catholic beliefs and people can [b:2n6dr2px]discuss[/b:2n6dr2px] them in the forums, not debate. It’s Rule # 3[/url:2n6dr2px].

Viewing 20 posts - 21 through 40 (of 42 total)
  • You must be logged in to reply to this topic.