Luther Admitted that the Catholic Church is the True Church

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  • #8185
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:1qjqxvuf]Can we then say Luther was not infallible when he proclaimed scripture alone or faith alone?[/quote:1qjqxvuf]

    [color=darkblue:1qjqxvuf]Face it Ronald, you put yourself in checkmate yet again, with this question because you walked right into it when you said,[i:1qjqxvuf] “just shows he[Luther] wasn’t infallible either”.[/i:1qjqxvuf] You are running in circles within your own little box yet again. Your cover has been blown numerous times now, you are a hater, and you have obviously tripped head-first into a state of denial ever since you have been here. By the way, I have shown family members(majority of them are protestant) this website, and they have all said to me that they do not agree with the way you ignore questions and bounce to something else, your rude comments towards other people, and overall your lack of respect for other people here in the forum. Go ahead and do your justifying. [/color:1qjqxvuf]

    #8187
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Wow you guys are incredible! You say I blew it and totally ignored the meat of my message:

    [quote:2dqq0wpq]As for faith and Scriptures, I again simply ask you to show me one book or passage that carries the ohmp that the Word of God has, just one, but know that there isn’t anything like it. In regards to Faith alone, our Salvation cannot be earned, it is a free gift through the grace of our Lord and what He did 2000 years ago at Calvary to pay for our sins. Any attempt to merit it nullifies grace[/quote:2dqq0wpq]
    with no comment!

    As for what St. James said:
    [quote:2dqq0wpq]You are trying to prove your point by your own personal point of view.

    You are are explaining the Bible by your own authority. [/quote:2dqq0wpq]

    simple opinion or whatever, nothing proven unbiblical or you would have used it! Here”s what you said:
    [quote:2dqq0wpq]So then it is Grace plus Faith

    Then read v10- ” For we are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus to do good works…”

    So then it is Grace plus Faith = Good Works. [/quote:2dqq0wpq]
    What does it say God’s grace + our faith = to do good works
    notice it says grace (certainly not our grace) plus faith (In what Jesus did not what we do) to do good works (not to get saved by works, by many Scriptures)

    Bernardine when are you going to pay attention? I haven’t been going in circles, you just have everything going over your head because you don’t have the foggiest idea what’s going on. But since much of your family isn’t Catholic, maybe there is hope for you yet.

    BTW- the game isn’t over and no need to justify myself, Jesus already took care of me. When will you get justified?

    #8188
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [color=darkblue:xy37rsru]…….need I say more. Thank you for proving my point Ronald. [/color:xy37rsru]

    #8189
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    No problem on this end – you’re welcome <img loading=” title=”Smile” />

    and you’ve proven mine as well.

    #8190
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    RonK,

    You are still not getting it.

    You are making decisions of what to believe in based on your own preferences. You will believe Martin Luther in grace and faith alone but not regarding the sacraments.

    Please understand this: you believe in Scripture alone because Martin Luther said it. This is actually a teaching tradition handed down generation by
    generation. Baptist teaching is tradition handed down the same way.

    Ron, I can see the way you conduct yourself. You haven’t realized that your argument was lost a while ago. Instead of honestly admitting this and facing reality, you will constantly do anything to come out on top.

    But that’s not what is happening. Instead of coming out on top you end up digging a hole for yourself and you are constantly looking up without realizing it.

    It is a sad thing when this happens. The key is not to justify yourself, the key is to humble yourself. This has great weight with God.

    You need to ask yourself what are you trying to accomplish here. Is it motivated by love towards those you are communicating with, or are you expressing yourself with hatred?

    I have been on this forum for a very short time and I already know you are not convincing anyone. You have no credibility. And I have to say there are times you really don’t make any sense.

    I am not saying this to hurt you. I really do care for you and I am praying for you.

    Instead of all your fighting and attacking folks Christ wants you to speak the truth in love.

    First, you need to know His love. His love is on the Cross. He wants you to come with Him to be crucified with Him to ” share in His sufferings”.
    To hide in the wounds of the Crucified One is the safest place to be. Rest in His love, take time to become like Him.

    Second, pray that you love others the way Christ loves them. You love people that are different than you, you even love your enemies. You do consider us your enemy don’t you?

    Third, realize Christ loves you. I think this is a key for you. You are constantly trying to lift yourself up by putting others down. You can never be wrong. This of course is pride, but with you I think that it is much more.

    I might be wrong, (and I don’t want to be a therapist here) but I do think your are always trying to prove yourself worthy to earn the love first of your earthly father, then of your Heavenly Father. Now I know you know that you are not able to earn salvation, but we must also realize that we are unable to earn His love.

    He does love you Ron. He wants you to love Him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength: not just faith for salvation. To love Christ is to be like Him. Read the Gospels, fall in love with Him.

    Afterward, let Christ lead you to speak the truth in love, the love that led Christ to the Cross for me and for you.

    I’ve struggled with trying to earn His love, now I pursue to know His love. Will you pray for me?

    #8191
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [color=darkblue:3hijbw71]I’ll be dedicating all my Rosaries this month to you Ron, whether you like it or not. [/color:3hijbw71] <img loading=” title=”Smile” />

    #8201
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    St James says:
    [quote:1v0ey76o]
    You are still not getting it. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    Not getting it ? I’ve gotten it already.

    [quote:1v0ey76o]You are making decisions of what to believe in based on your own preferences. You will believe Martin Luther in grace and faith alone but not regarding the sacraments.

    Please understand this: you believe in Scripture alone because Martin Luther said it. This is actually a teaching tradition handed down generation by
    generation. Baptist teaching is tradition handed down the same way. [/quote:1v0ey76o]

    What is it that you seem to think I misunderstand? I’ve told you I don’t follow Martin Luther. I’ve told you that we are saved by faith (alone) in what Jesus did at Calvary (Alone) and as Titus 3:5 says “Not by any righteous deed we do” There is nothing hard to understand that
    [quote:1v0ey76o]Ron, I can see the way you conduct yourself. You haven’t realized that. your argument was lost a while ago. Instead of honestly admitting this and facing reality, you will constantly do anything to come out on top. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    I sure don’t feel that I lost anything by quoting Scriptures.

    [quote:1v0ey76o]But that’s not what is happening. Instead of coming out on top you end up digging a hole for yourself and you are constantly looking up without realizing it. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    If I’m looking up its at Jesus, not you guys down there.

    [quote:1v0ey76o]It is a sad thing when this happens. The key is not to justify yourself, the key is to humble yourself. This has great weight with God. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    No the KEY is where you place your faith in to attain Heaven

    [quote:1v0ey76o]You need to ask yourself what are you trying to accomplish here. Is it motivated by love towards those you are communicating with, or are you expressing yourself with hatred? [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    Love for the lost

    [quote:1v0ey76o]I have been on this forum for a very short time and I already know you are not convincing anyone. You have no credibility. And I have to say there are times you really don’t make any sense. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    you don’t understand and I can clearly see that, but how do you know if I make a difference or not? Can you read their mind?

    [quote:1v0ey76o]I am not saying this to hurt you. I really do care for you and I am praying for you. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    But I’m not hurting. Thanks for the prayer but I really think you need to get saved before your prayers will do any good.

    [quote:1v0ey76o]Instead of all your fighting and attacking folks Christ wants you to speak the truth in love. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    Which is what I’m doing

    [quote:1v0ey76o]First, you need to know His love. His love is on the Cross. He wants you to come with Him to be crucified with Him to ” share in His sufferings”.
    To hide in the wounds of the Crucified One is the safest place to be. Rest in His love, take time to become like Him. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    I agree – that’s why purgatory is a joke, praying to Mary, sacramentalism and so much more is unbiblical.

    [quote:1v0ey76o]Second, pray that you love others the way Christ loves them. You love people that are different than you, you even love your enemies. You do consider us your enemy don’t you? [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    I consider you lost, not the enemy, that’s why I’m here.

    [quote:1v0ey76o]Third, realize Christ loves you. I think this is a key for you. You are constantly trying to lift yourself up by putting others down. You can never be wrong. This of course is pride, but with you I think that it is much more. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    Of course I know that Jesus loves me and why I believe in Him and follow His word…..no pride about it.

    [quote:1v0ey76o]I might be wrong, (and I don’t want to be a therapist here) but I do think your are always trying to prove yourself worthy to earn the love first of your earthly father, then of your Heavenly Father. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    You are wrong

    [quote:1v0ey76o]Now I know you know that you are not able to earn salvation, but we must also realize that we are unable to earn His love. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    You say this yet your church says one should try to merit their salvation through works, sacraments purgatory etc…etc …

    [quote:1v0ey76o]He does love you Ron. He wants you to love Him with all your heart, soul, mind and strength: not just faith for salvation. To love Christ is to be like Him. Read the Gospels, fall in love with Him. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    I know that and He loves you as well.. Been there, done that,that’s why I’m here!

    [quote:1v0ey76o]Afterward, let Christ lead you to speak the truth in love, the love that led Christ to the Cross for me and for you. [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    got it! But only those who trust in THAT will be saved, so one cannot say they believe in the finished work of Christ and remain a fervent catholic – there are two separate Gospels

    [quote:1v0ey76o]I’ve struggled with trying to earn His love, now I pursue to know His love. Will you pray for me? [/quote:1v0ey76o]
    I’ll pray for your conversion.

    Bernardine – praying to Mary won’t help me or you so why do that?

    #8204
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    RonK,

    It is interesting that you did not respond to this:

    “I have been on this forum for a very short time and I already know you are not convincing anyone. You have no credibility. And I have to say there are times you really don’t make any sense. “

    Ron you need to understand this. Whereas people will care for you and respect your dignity, you are not taken seriously and your words and arguments do not command respect.

    Ron, there are players and then there are haters(I used to coach basketball) and my friend you are a hater.

    But I will not hate you.

    My question is this: how do you deal with knowing that you are not convincing anyone, and that your arguments are not taken seriously?

    #8206
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    St. James:

    I think you hit the nail on the head when you said,

    [quote:275ntale]My question is this: how do you deal with knowing that you are not convincing anyone, and that your arguments are not taken seriously?[/quote:275ntale]

    Most of all the statement, your arguments…. As they are proported to be his arguments, (A cursory knowledge of the history of the Protestant sects is all one needs to know in order to see that they are really not his own, but a direct submission of his will to the writings of Baptist and Seventh Day Adventist hate mongers) If he was able to come up with one authentic insight that was not lifted from the pages of a Hislop inspired anti-Catholic, I could give some credence to his rantings.

    #8208
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Sant James says:

    [quote:1zcguz9h]It is interesting that you did not respond to this: [/quote:1zcguz9h]
    I thought I’ve responded, what do you want me to do – Lie?
    [quote:1zcguz9h]
    “I have been on this forum for a very short time and I already know you are not convincing anyone. You have no credibility. And I have to say there are times you really don’t make any sense. ” [/quote:1zcguz9h]
    Oh I make sense to those of whom are Born again believers. Its just in these circles where most reject what I say ecause they don’t make sense out of this.
    [quote:1zcguz9h]
    Ron you need to understand this. Whereas people will care for you and respect your dignity, you are not taken seriously and your words and arguments do not command respect. [/quote:1zcguz9h]
    They told Jesus the same type stuff when He spoke to them before killing Him – He said “if they persecute me they’ll persecute you as well.”

    [quote:1zcguz9h]Ron, there are players and then there are haters(I used to coach basketball) and my friend you are a hater. [/quote:1zcguz9h]
    Why because I don’t speak the same lingo?

    [quote:1zcguz9h]But I will not hate you.[/quote:1zcguz9h]
    nor will you consider what I’ve said

    [quote:1zcguz9h]My question is this: how do you deal with knowing that you are not convincing anyone, and that your arguments are not taken seriously?[/quote:1zcguz9h]
    The point is that there are others of whom neither you nor I know that watch and may realize what am saying is the truth!

    #8209
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    RonK,

    But that’s the point. You are not convincing, nor being taken seriously by more people than you can imagine.

    #8232
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I also heard another reason Luther broke away from the Church is because he wanted to marry a nun,and of course the Pope rejected that idea.Has anyone else heard that?

    #8233
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    In 1523, the first Protestant martyrs were burned at Brussels. In 1524, peasants revolted citing Luther’s teachings and demanding more just economic conditions. Luther also stopped wearing the religious habit. In 1525, Martin Luther wrote Against the Murderous and Thieving Hordes of Peasants. At the Battle of Frankenhausen, 50,000 peasant lives were lost. By the time the uprising was quelled, nearly 100,000 lives were lost. The peasants believed Luther had betrayed them.

    [color=red:2y8998ge]This same year, Martin Luther married former nun Katherine von Bora. They took up residence at Black Cloister, the former Augustinian monastery in Wittenberg. [/color:2y8998ge]
    Church Leadership and Old Age: Though married late at nearly age 42, Martin Luther clearly enjoyed family life. Over the next 9 years, Katherine gave birth to 6 children ‚Äì two of whom would die before their father. His love for family is an on-going legacy ‚Äì reflected in the Christmas tree tradition begun for Martin’s family. And he composed the most basic of the Christmas carols “Away in a Manger.”

    #8236
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Reading the life of Martin Luther was a big step for me in coming back to the Church.

    This was one of the issues that grieved me the most seeing Martin breaking his vows made before Almighty God. A man trusted to minister the Eucharist will reinterpret the Eucharist, a man trusted to minister the Word of God will become lord over it.

    Another was the chaos of everyone a priest in their own eyes and everyone interpreting Scripture as they saw fit.

    It reminded me of the last verse of the book of Judges, “and everyone did what was right in their own eyes”.

    One thing to realize that in the Evangelical world Martin’s biography will be sanitized to avoid such things as culpability concerning the Peasants Rebellion.

    #8282
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:b3shhea5]Luther’s original intention was not to break away from the Church, but to reform it. He was excommunicated.

    Some of the other reformers wanted a total break. The term “Lutheran” might not even come from Luther himself but from other rogue followers that didn’t quite get that he didn’t want to break away.[/quote:b3shhea5]

    [color=darkblue:b3shhea5]Does anyone know of a good book that explains just this? I would love to read it and then give it to my family who are mostly all Lutheran.[/color:b3shhea5]

    #9272
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    "Bernardine":kxnfgqfc wrote:
    [color=darkblue:kxnfgqfc]Does anyone know of a good book that explains just this? I would love to read it and then give it to my family who are mostly all Lutheran.[/color:kxnfgqfc][/quote:kxnfgqfc]
    If they do not have it, I would suggest The Book of Concord.
    #9275

    Was the Book of Concord written before or after his excommunication?

    #9277
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [u:1p5or2vu]Additional Information About the Book of Concord:[/u:1p5or2vu]

    -The Book of Concord contains the Apostle’s Creed, the Nicene Creed, and the Athanasian Creed. All of these creeds have been written between the 2nd-8th Century A.D

    -The Book of Concord also contains the Augsburg Confession, the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, the Smalcald Articles, the Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope, Luther’s Small and Large Catechisms, and the Formula of Concord.

    -The Small and Large Catechisms and the Smalcald Articles were written by Martin Luther. The Augsburg Confession, the Apology of the Augsburg Confession, and the Treatise on the Power and Primacy of the Pope were written by Philip Melanchthon.
    The Formula of Concord was given its final form chiefly by Jacob Andreae, Martin Chemnitz, and Nickolaus Selnecker.

    (all information from http://bookofconcord.org/intro.php)

    Martin Luther was excommunicated in the year 1521. The Small Catechism was written in 1529.

    "Jon":1p5or2vu wrote:
    Was the Book of Concord written before or after his excommunication?[/quote:1p5or2vu]
    To answer your question: Yes. The Book of Concord was written at different times after Luther’s excommunication.
    #9310
    Anonymous
    Inactive
    "weather":3b38faym wrote:
    I also heard another reason Luther broke away from the Church is because he wanted to marry a nun,and of course the Pope rejected that idea.Has anyone else heard that?[/quote:3b38faym]
    Yes I have. I heard it from the local priest when we went on a walk together.
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