[quote:36qgqb6r]Without intimacy in marriage there is no life (technically).[/quote:36qgqb6r]

True, but here are your options:

1. You continue being intimate and risk that she may get pregnant and both she and the baby may die (for sure she will, the baby is questionable).
2. You use contraceptives.
3. You both make the decision to not be intimate due to the circumstance.

Which one would you choose?

~Victor

Uncertaindrummer, wouldn’t that be kinda like putting God in a position where He has to choose. Kinda when satan asked him to jump off a building? He didn’t take to kindly to that. Is this any different?
Technically he can CHOOSE at any moment in time to end a life. Would it be any different if I wanted to committ suicide, and said “if he wants me to live, then he will stop me or cause something to happen”. The point being is that God doesn’t like us to put Him on the spot. Just like satan did on top of the building.

~Victor

[quote:19brt6yg]True, but we aren’t. We aren’t telling Him to pick and give us a big green or red light.[/quote:19brt6yg]

Your choice to continue to be intimate would do exactly that Uncertaindrummer. You said:

[quote:19brt6yg]I choose to be intimate like God intended, andlet God decide whether or not my wife/baby dies. If He wants them, He will get them. If He thinks thye still belong on Earth, they will. [/quote:19brt6yg]

Is that not telling God to pick?

[quote:19brt6yg]Jus doing what He TOLD us to do. As long as the act is inherantly good, it can’t be evil unless you intend for some evil to come out of it. The more I argue in favor of this, the more I convince myself.[/quote:19brt6yg]

Of course God wants a man and women to be intimate. It’s one of the greatest gifts given to us. But that doesn’t mean he “TOLD” you to continue regardless of the consequences. A situation can change your decision. A good example is God telling us that lying is wrong. Although true, certain situations can justify a lie. Like telling the Gestapo that there are no Jews in your house. Would you lie to save a life? Or would you not lie because God TOLD you not to? See my point?

~Victor

Not sure if this situation per se is in the Cathecism. But I did have a very similar convo with Tim Staples. He is the one that helped me come to this conclusion. Sorry if I upset you man. Wasn’t trying to do that. Your comment of:

[quote:1vp5qola]However, if the teaching of the Church is that it WOULD be wrong, I would change my opinion and fully support that.[/quote:1vp5qola]

That is good enough for me. ” title=”Wink” />

By the way my statement was based on my understanding of what the Church would say about this particular situation. My opinions and feelings may sway me in a different direction. That is why it’s so wonderful to be catholic!!! Cause if we disagree we can always say “what does the Church teach?” You gotta love that.

~Victor

[quote:42sq6s99]Not sure if this situation per se is in the Cathecism. But I did have a very similar convo with Tim Staples. He is the one that helped me come to this conclusion. Sorry if I upset you man. Wasn’t trying to do that. Your comment of:

[quote:42sq6s99]However, if the teaching of the Church is that it WOULD be wrong, I would change my opinion and fully support that.[/quote:42sq6s99]

That is good enough for me. ” title=”Wink” />

By the way my statement was based on my understanding of what the Church would say about this particular situation. My opinions and feelings may sway me in a different direction. That is why it’s so wonderful to be catholic!!! Cause if we disagree we can always say “what does the Church teach?” You gotta love that.

~Victor[/quote:42sq6s99]

Yes, indeed. That’s why Catholicism is so dang rocking. (Oh, yeah, and the whole “one, holy, catholic, apostolic” thing is kinda nice as well, lol)

By the way Jon, that cathechism site is AWESOME.

Also, I think I might have changed my opinion on this matter. I know that if you are doing something NOT inherently evil, but which may cause evil as an unwanted side effect, it IS alright as long as the good coming from the action outweighs the unwanted evil. I am THINKING that the death of the wife PROBABLY outweighs the good of intamacy, but I am not quite convinced yet.

And when I said that it was God’s decision, I didn’t mean it in the same way as “jump off a cliff and see if He sends angels to save you”, I meant more in the USUAL context in which its spoken about with regards to sexuality. The Church teaches it is God’s will whether or not a child is conceived by the intercourse (which of course it is), which is why contraceptives are wrong, because they take God out of it. I was thinking along those same lines, although I do believe my analogy may be somewhat flawed.

I still think someone should just call up Benedict, lol

P.S. Did I seem upset in some of my post(s)? I most certainly wasn’t… I have greatly enjoyed this discussion. That is the fourth time in two weeks someone on a message board has told me I sound upset when I am not… What do I DO exactly…

Well now that the details changed I may take a turn on my stance. ” title=”Wink” />
Although I was kinda taking Jon’s situation as a theoretical. Assuming death was inevitable for the wife and the life of the baby was uncertain (depending on how far into the pregnancy she was). But what you are saying is different. First I would like to know what is the actual percentage if its not 100%? Because if it’s something like 80% my stance stays the same. Uncertaindrummer, you certainly made the situation even more difficult now. I need to ponder over this a bit more.

~Victor

I probably would, but I would seek advice from a priest, apologists, etc. before I did. Just to make sure. Cause everybody’s situation may be a bit different.

~Victor