Reply To: Graven Images

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Anonymous
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Before starting, you also accepted that Aron used the golden calf as the wrong representation of God. I am glad with our progress. Let the Truth proclaim!

Think of why Father has proclaimed He has begotten his Son, not created his Son.
I was surprised that you called my statement was absurd, when my theology textbook in a Catholic school for highschool students teaches us to make distintion between begetting and creating to understand the identity of Christ as a devine God. I was surprised that you were new to this.

I recognized my lack of historical proof of relating Catholic images to Roman worship through statue. I will be careful for that. Please, forgive me in the name of Son.
The word, Noah walked with God, was the language of figure.
If you support your arument with that, you must say you can have the mind picture of the Father having legs, which must be blasphemous.

Let me digress a little bit. I heard there was a Methodist hymn, which discribed God as femine. You could even make an idol of yourself in the perception of written words.
We must never do that, don’t you agree with me?

Idols can be also money, and academic success, ets. Then, let me continue on our subject.

God said, himself, agaisnt using the visible idols in Excodud 20 : 4. But, why did he make specific statements about the visible images, only, when the written words can be used as dangerously as possible – notice I am not denying the posbility of using written laguage to make a distorting represention of God, which is also an idol.

There is a huge difference between the visualization of God and the written descrption of God, however.

Psalm 23 describes The Lord as the Shepherd. When I think of Jesus Christ, I have the image of Christ in my head as the Shepherd. Every scripture is God-breathed, and Psalm 23 also funtioned as the prophecy, which showed the comming Messiah would be a good shepherd. Yes, when I see Psalm 23, I have the image of God as the Shepherd. And, I know I am not serving an idol, having the image of Christ as the Shepherd in my mind. Are you with me, so far?

However, when that is going through my mind, my will still has soverinty over my imagination. And I can never solidfy the image of the Shepherd in my brain. It is armorphos cloud, for you can have the exactly same thought, again. I can never finish visualizing the Shephered, for ever. If it you say it is an idol – I believe you won’t- it is an idol that can never be built at all.

However, if you solidfy the image in your mind outwardly – say you make the statue of your visual imagination of the Shepherd, you shall see imediately the result is different from your original perception and has the different quality from what you imagined. In your imagination. you thought of the Good Shepherd gently caring for his sheep, which is us. However, the solidfied image is merely the dead and cold stone. Once it is solidified, none who sees the image can not perceive it with the soevernty of his will over the imagination. He sees the image as it is, for it is being represented as a destined form.

Moreover, It is almost impossible for you to creat anything as you have planned in your mind. Have you ever been not disappointed after you finish your picture, thinking it is too inferior to what your imagination has suggested?

You can never never avoid spreding the wrong (also evil) represention of God through the solidifided image, even though it is more sophisticated than Aron’s golden calf.

Please let me see a picture free of this sin. It seems you advocate the use of human images to point out God seriously. I believe you know a lot of them. Let me have any picture of God, which does not encourage me to have the wrong solidfided image of God. Let me have one, and I shall not object to you.

Also, please give me one example from the Bible times, the era of the New and Old Testaments, which shows that Jews used the solidfied visual images to point out to God in ther worship, not cherubs or angels, please….

If not, would you mind explaining me why Jews were not clever enough to use such an effective mean to remind its people of One True God? Please, let me have the answer about this point. I really beseech you to answer this, especially.

About your criticism of my using some certain verses from Acts, I think you are intelligent enough to see that Paul is literally dicouraging Greeks to visualize God outwardly, Acts 17: 29… we should not think that the divine being is Like gold or silver or stone – an image made by man’s design and skill (NIV).

Catholic statues can never point out to God, for it has no likeness of God at all.

Even with the context, my usage of the Scriprture was resonable. If I am wrong, let me know. If I am right, what is your reason to deny what is obvious?

Remember, debate for the sake of debate is meaningless.

Ignorance comes from two sources, first deception and, second, self-deception. In the second case, none of us can justify it. If I am wrong and still insisting arrogantly, I am attacking the true church of God in vain, risking self-deception. If I am so. please condemn me so that I can know the Truth and the Truth shall set me free from my wrong.

But,If I am right… well… you know the answer for yourself.
Let us be truthful to God.

Above all, let me see any example that Jews used the visual image to point out or to represent God. Remember, there were many Jews, who knew sculptures were trully effective, because they were sometimes tempted by them, themselves! Let me know why Jews were ignorant that specifically for that point. If you are right, this can be considered both as the mystery and the mistake of Jews, who were not deligent enough to use their artistic means to do this.

Please condemn me strongly, if I am wrong so that I cannot sin against a true church.

What we beget is identical to us.
What we creat is inferior to us.

I am repeating this absurd statement again.

I was a Catholic myself. I defended statues, myself. I am now merely follower of Jesus Christ, without supporting any specific denomination. I always struggle to know the Truth truly with the help of Holy Spirit, which shows its presence in human lives and scriptures.