Reply To: Sola Scriptura

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Mr. LARoberts,

I hope you don’t mind but there are a few flaws with your “invincable” article (or so you thought) –

[quote:1pzyccz3]At this point it would seem that the shifting of the conversation to the talking points which have no basis in the authentic interpretation of Sacred Scripture or historical fact (at least until Evangelical Protestant Ministers in the 18th and 19th Centuries re-invented the Church in their own image, making them a religious system that is truly a Tradition of Men,) can not be given an honest replies.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
And just because you say this, does that make what you say right and me wrong?? Lets check out this to see who is right comparing it to Scriptures!
Boy you sure think you have all of the answers!

[quote:1pzyccz3]Not because of the 2000 year teaching of Christ Jesus, upheld and maintained by the Catholic Church since it’s founding around 33AD is wrong, but because these Evangelical Traditons of Men are so far removed from what Christ Jesus taught, and simply preach a false Christ invented by Protestant Theologians when they proclaimed themselves to be the authority and denied the Church who had been the guardian of the Truth centuries even back to the Apostles.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
Oh yea, and the Mormons think they are right and the JW’s think they’re right and Catholics think they’re right too! We’ve been warned in Scriptures to check everyone out for deceptions and to begin with,”who told you Cathaicism is THE Church?” According to John 3:16 everyone who believes in the work done by Christ is saved and as Ephesians says –
(Eph 2:19-22) -[color=darkred:1pzyccz3]19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.[/color:1pzyccz3] I don’t see the word Catholic anywhere and even in the early days Catholic meant universal not Roman Catholic as today’s church of your denomination is called

[quote:1pzyccz3] The untruths proposed by Protestant, most of all Evangelical Protestantism and the “Church Invisible” being so distant from what Christ taught, cannot be reconciled with what Jesus handed down to the Apostles, (Traditio: to hand down or to hand on)[/quote:1pzyccz3]

Neither are the Traditions of your “church” without some tremendous Scripture twisting on their part. Seems like a lot of circular reasoning is shown on your part – as in We must be right, God is never wrong and says He’ll never let His Church down and We believe we are the Church so what we say must be infallible. We is a mighty big word for only two letters. AS for the untruths of your church, they are there if you look at what God’s word says with an open unbiased mind.

[quote:1pzyccz3] It is not suprising, as the Man made Traditions of the Protestants have no historical basis before they rejected Christ’s claim that He would remain with us, and that He would send the Holy Ghost to guide and help us, but rather that He abandoned us until they came along to put things back on track.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
Another big word- us – as if that meant Jesus referred to Roman Catholicism – I find no Roman Catholicism being mentioned in Scriptures
by name, so how dld you come up with that? Answer – “that is what they say” is not good enough

[quote:1pzyccz3]Too bad that according to Protestant “logic” Jesus cannot be taken for his word. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
Say what? We are the Sola Scriptura crowd- not the catholic church – or did you forget?

[quote:1pzyccz3]As the Bible never says that we need to accept Jesus as “Our Lord and Personal Savior,” and that is that. But rather says, we should “Believe and be baptized in Water and the Spirit.”[/quote:1pzyccz3]
Yes it does in John 3:16-18 3:36 – Believe in what? That is the question, notice it says “believe” first and then be baptised – keep things in correct order please

[quote:1pzyccz3] The same goes for the Eternal Assurance hogwash of the Evangelicals,[/quote:1pzyccz3]
From your perspective I understand why you don’t believe, you can’t, you never made the connection yet.

[quote:1pzyccz3]basing their interpretation of Scipture on the King James or other modern language versions of the Scriptures, they tell us that when we “Make our decision for Christ” we are Saved. However the greek word and tense used by St. Paul when he writes about salvation is a transitent form of the verb which means that we are in the process of our salvation, not a completed work, but a work being acted upon us by the work of the passion and death of Christ, and our cooperation with His graces, gained for us by His Cross.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
Funny, Jesus said “it was finished” didn’t he? What do you suppose He meant by that? Or don’t you know? ((as obviously you don’t know)

[quote:1pzyccz3] Too bad the Evangelicals are not taught to read the Scriptures with an understanding of the original languages, but re-cast the original text to conform to their meanings and interpretations. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
Where is that a necessity? (Biblically it isn’t or does Jesus not say come to Him as little children?)

[quote:1pzyccz3]Since the hostility, anger and venom of people who place more stock in Anti-Catholic writers than they do in the Sacred Scriptures, or the 2000 year consistant teaching of the Church which pre-dates the inspired books of the New Testament, making them blind to authentic Christian teaching.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
Again you automatically say with a slant that we are “angery?” And what makes you think that the “catholic” teachings are the same when obviously they aren’t? ( I know- “catholics are taught that way”) Nothing personal but we are to “contend for the truth” so now let’s see who is telling the Truth is my goal.

[quote:1pzyccz3] I think the only thing left is to ask our Lady, the Immaculate Heart to join us in petitioning her son, our Lord that the heart’s of rabid anti-Catholics be softened and they rather than blindly condemn the teachings of Christ out of the hatred for the Church He founded, that they come to submit to Christ Jesus and the Church He founded. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
Well here is a perfect example – praying to someone other then Jesus- strickly unbiblical – I thought you said your church followed the truth

[quote:1pzyccz3]So I for one, having Chosen Christ and His teachings, will not be drawn in any further to the false debates of Evangelical Traditions of Men, and will ally myself with the hosts of heaven to pray for the conversion of Evangelical hetrodoxy to the orthodox teachings of Christ preserved in the entire deposit of faith in the Catholic Church, asking Mary, Mother of God, and all the saints to join with me in petitioning the throne of heaven in opening the hearts of the Protestant to the Truths of Christ.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
You are off base thinking that Mary and all the saints are listening – it sure isn’t Biblical

[quote:1pzyccz3] Or as the televangelists would say, “I rebuke you demons of Protestant mis-interpretation of the Scriptures, and attacks on the authentic Christ and His Church.” [/quote:1pzyccz3]
Oh yes indeed, and don’t forget the catholic misinterpretations and claims to be the authentic Church – Not!

[quote:1pzyccz3]For those here who are going to be unfamiliar with the comments I make below to Mr. Ron, I’d suggest you read, Evangelical Is Not Enough, and The Spirit and Forms of Protestantism, both written by former Anti-Catholics who make Mr? Ron look passive in his approach who also converted to the Christ and His Church.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
So why not just include the right ones – – and many other good ones including mine <img decoding=” title=”Wink” />

[quote:1pzyccz3] The difference between the above books and the postings by Mr. Ron here, is the men where trained and had advanced studies at Protestant Universities, where before their converson to the Faith honest and gave readers sources for their points of attack on the Catholic Church, and opened their souls to recieve Christ and become a follower of Christ and be recieved into the Church. There is also Karl Keatings Catholic Answers web-site. Karl also being a former trubador against anything Catholic, who had the scales before his eyes removed, and read history from an honest no biased point of view, and came to the Church. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
Ha Ha your whole article is filled with biase viewpoints

[quote:1pzyccz3]The above is a general note to any Evangelical Anti-Catholic. Now a personal note to Ron K a responso as it was his command to me, Quote:
Mr. LARoberts – save it. You need it more for yourself! [/quote:1pzyccz3]
I guess you should post what I was refferring to when I said that (backtrack on this webposting to an earlier post for details)

[quote:1pzyccz3]I come from a Sephardic home, my father and grandfather led the same congregation for over 60 years. In my late teens as I was being groomed to take over my father’s pulpit, I was infludenced by the Evangelical Free Chruch and one Bart Brewer. Bart had been a Catholic priest, a Carmelite in fact. He “opened the eyes” of many an Evangelical Church by his seminars on the evils of the Catholic Church and the Pope. The problem with Bart and a whole slew of professinal Anti-Catholics is that they are poorly Bible based, (They do throw out a few stock Protestant phrases, much like yourself Mr. Ron) but spend most of the time bashing what they falsely accuse the Catholic Church of being. Bart and his friends made two fatal errors. They started misquoting the Hebrew Scriptures, as well as the Early Church Fathers in order to assert the claims they where making.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
Well I’m not that way so now what Mr. LARoberts, ask Mr. Weathers how often I use the Bible to supply answers. (correctly to I might add)

[quote:1pzyccz3] This got me to study what the actual texts said. I read Josephus, and Philo, early Jewish historians and philosopers, who also wrote with contempt about the early Church, I read other non-catholic sources and anti catholic writings from the first four centuries, and found that rather than wash away the claims of the Catholic Church they confirmed that the practice and teachings of the Early Church where not protestant, but in fact what the Catholic Church teaches today.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
Scriptures say that they save us, that we grow by it – which is your biggest error – you read all the “other junk” instead of Scriptures BTW – no one tells me what can compare with the Bible since its God’s word – can you ?

[quote:1pzyccz3] The second error was to think the sexual sins of their past, would not be found out and the fact they had been expelled from their orders would not come to light if they simply made an angry pre-emtive attack on the Church that had expelled them. As I have mentioned before, Mr. Ron, your anger and your comments are not remarkable, because they are not your own. You have allowed your mind and your soul to be turned over to the Hislops and Bottiners and other Anti-Catholic writers, who’s writings have not only be proved to be false and plagaristic, but your complete trust in them is revealed by the very style of your writing and almost word for word attacks. As Hislop and Bottiner have been proven time and time again to be blithering idiots who simply copied from other people, I for one would rather see some honest fresh arguments.[/quote:1pzyccz3]
Well now is that why so many of your priests are child molesters? (You have no right to suggest me of any “sexual misgivings” That is a low blow charge and totally false)

[quote:1pzyccz3] It was the lies and fabrications of Anti-Catholics who slipped up by retelling old fables that could not be backed up historically combined with the Grace of God that brought me not simply to the door of the Catholic Church, but inside the fold. It was in the Catholic Church that I found the eternal Word of God, (Christ Jesus) as he had been preached from the time of the Apostles, rather than the false traditions of Man Jesus of the Protestants. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
As I began this reply – that is what they tell you to believe of, course why wouldn’t they?

[quote:1pzyccz3]Now I am not making any implication that Mr. Ron has any sexual pecadillos he is hiding,[/quote:1pzyccz3]
You already have – I think an apology from or repremand from a manager of this board would be in order!

[quote:1pzyccz3] but I do assert that none of the ideas or calumnies he asserts against the Chruch are his own, none of them are inspired by the Spirit of Lite, but rather copied from men who have fallen into the Spirits of Anger and deception. Most of all that Mr. Ron’s eyes and soul seem to be shut tight, based on his knee jerk anti-catholic predigested, comments and his attempts to inject venom rather than to share the Good News of the authentic Christ Jesus. Mr. Ron reminds me of Saul before he converted and was baptized, (but Ron would put less importance on baptism than St. Paul who sought out the Sacrament after his eyes where opened) in Acts Chapter 8 Quote:
Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples [/quote:1pzyccz3]
Well there is no changing your biased opinions with the truth! At least you shared your “opinions” now when are you going to inject the truth?

[quote:1pzyccz3]I for one pray that like Saul he can become a Paul, Mr Ron will one day submit himself to the authentic Christ, and abandon his man made invention of the Protestant Christ. [/quote:1pzyccz3]
Your Prayer has been answered, now when will you do likewise?