Uncertaindrummer says to respond to my quotes:
[quote:10y3no3e]Where do you get that goofy notion? Don’t tell me, let me guess your church -right?
No. from logic class. Actually, I wouldn’t even need to take a logic class to figure that one out, it is so obvious to anyone but the most biased of individuals. You can’t interpret a book with a book, it doesn’t work. Since you clearly have trouble understand the most basic tenets of logic, let me spell it out for you.
You have three Bible verses. A,B, C.
What does A mean? Well we look at B for that of course. But how do we know what B means? Well we look at C for that of course. And how do we know what C means? Well we look at… uh, well, hmmm… See the problem? To “know” what C means you have to interpret it using other parts of the Bible, but eventually, you circle RIGHT BACK to where you came from, and you didn’t really gain anything. [/quote:10y3no3e]
Well Your reasoning isn’t inspired now is it !!! For 3 verses of Scriptures which is inspired, tells us 1 – Rom 10:17- So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
2 – 1 Pet 2:2 – As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:
3 – John 8:31+32 – Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
So if we get faith through His Word and grow in His word and know the truth with His word – Then His Word is complete to make me be able to be prepared for all things (Which is exactly what 2 Timothy 3:16-17 says) So
what about Yoouuurrrrr “opinions!”
Here’s the double talk – first you admit that only God can forgve sins but then you add that He gave the power to His apostles (which then gives it through apostlic succession no doubt to priests) So here is a perfect case of which is it God alone or God + men? It cannot be both because then it wouldn’t be God alone.
I noticed you completely ignored such a question as miracles. God forgives miracles THROUGH His Apostles. You don’t want this to be true but it is. A plain reading of Scripture says so. [/quote:10y3no3e]
Miracles is one thing, Forgiveness or removal of sins is another different area that no man can do – That is what you’ve been conditioned to think
Oh is that so? So tell me where the Bible says to PRAY to Mary +saints, purgatory, the meriting graces through sacraments, These are just for starters for I guarantee that the twisting is done on YOUR part!
All over the place. We have explained the praying. Purgatory is found not only in 1 Corinthians, as well as the parable of the man locked in jail until he has paid every last penny, but also in 2 Macabees, which of course you don’t accept as the Bible, but that is because… you don’t have a clue what the Bible is. [/quote:10y3no3e]
I know what it doesn’t say – and I know what His plan is according to His Word – You just don’t understand it – or you simply deny it.
That is your unfortunate free will choice and for your info God hasn’t let His Church fail yet but that has nothing to do with Catholicism – as you WILL someday find out…..
Here is where you are wrong, yet again. If the gates of Hell didn’t prevail, what exactly happened for the first fifteen hundred years of the Church? Hmm, a problem for you this is… [/quote:10y3no3e]
The gates of Hell hasn’t prevailed against His Church but yours? – you pray to saints, preach Purgatory, Penances for sin, talk of a “real presence” in the Eucharist, have mass, – Hummmmm? Looks like Satan’s done quite well with your church.
Are you then saying that ALL Catholics are going to Heaven dispite so many variations of beliefs (or lack of) within the Catholic Church? That’s what you are suggesting!
It has nothing to do with what I am suggesting. I never once said every Catholic is going to Heaven. Every practicing Catholic who stays away from mortal sin will, but that has nothing to do with this at all. I can tell you are running out of arguments because you have no alternative explanations, and are setting up straw men ad absurdum arguments, without ever touching the real issue. [/quote:10y3no3e]
Oh the venial sin point of which I forgot to mention – Yet James says If you commit one sin, you are guilty of all and Rev 21:27 says no sin is ever going to Heaven – so which sins are only “venial?” As to the Catholic that does or doesn’t go to Heaven, you’ve said that Catholics are His Church, so then which ones go to Heaven or which ones don’t. Surely you don’t think if someone partakes in daily mass and by sacramental methods someone can merit their salvation
Glad you asked – Read Ephesians 5:25 to 32 – “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish. So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself. For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church: For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones. This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (I skipped verse 31 so you don’t get entirely confused) And I underlined what He is saying about His Church
Exactly. The Church is very real. Thank you for pointing out this wonderful verse. [/quote:10y3no3e]
I’m just showing that His Church consists only of Believers, not some denomination
you are welcomed
Really? doesn’t 1 Peter have something against Private interpretation?
Yes, the very private interpreting YOU are doing. [/quote:10y3no3e]
read it again for I don’t think he says that we shouldn’t or couldn’t understand Scriptures
And now you are suggesting that a GROUP of individuals can?
Not any random group of individuals grabbed off the street. But the Magisterium, guided by the Holy Spirit, can indeed interpret the Scriptures. [/quote:10y3no3e]
That is only because you don’t see their mistakes.
[quote:10y3no3e]I don’t see how that can be?
Because you don’t WANT it to be, you close your mind to any possibility. [/quote:10y3no3e]
Sorry pal – just look at the twisting that your church does if you want to –
It doesn’t. Ron, everything my Church says is in perfect harmony with the Bible, which it wrote. You don’t WANT this to be true, so you try to find reasons why it can’t be. And yet you are forced to abandon logic, set up straw men, try to ignore the fact that you are adding your own private interpretations, hanging onto to your own traditions… [/quote:10y3no3e]
[quote:10y3no3e]but you already said that you don’t care to look at my website… your choosing to be blind and I can’t stop that.
Choosing to be blind? As I have said before, far greater apologists than you have attacked the Church, and I have read plenty of their fallacious and erroneous arguments, listened to their debates, and even, actually, corresponded with a few of them–there is nothing on your website I haven’t heard before. [/quote:10y3no3e]
Then I guess I’ll stop casting my pearls your way
Thank you but you still continue to double talk as in saying “the real institution, the Catholic Church” that is your opinion, not a fact as I can show you but you don’t have the eyes to see or the ears to hear either.
Matthew 16: 15-19. Once again, it is not my opinion, it is the plain reading of the Bible. One of these days, when you feel like following your own advice and reading Scripture for what it is, come over to my side.
I can assure you that I will never be a Catholic – been there, and repented of that, so why would I want to go back? No need to answer this question.