Home › Forums › Everything Else › [Orthodoxy] Papal Authority › Reply To: [Orthodoxy] Papal Authority
Continuation to Ted’s responses….
[quote:216a0x7m]You say that God knows us too well, and He knows the power of using one over using the college of bishops. Really? That’s interesting, Vic, and you’ll pardon me for saying it, but Orthodox theology has not changed, and it has maintained collegiality from the very beginning. However, the Roman Catholic Church’s malleability, in theology, in “development”, in masses, in innovations, certainly is a strike against the one. Realistically, the argument of the RCC that “you need the Pope to anchor the faith” is horribly compromised when you look how staunch Orthodox belief has been and how constant, DESPITE COLLEGIALITY, while the Roman Catholic Church has seen things stated and revoked, restated, and changed, Pope ruling, then Councils as Supreme (esp. after the Split Papacy, and the Three Popes), back to papal supremacy and a denouncement of past decrees. There is literally so much overturn on what past popes have said that THAT ALONE HORRIBLY COMPRIMISES CLAIMS OF INFALLIBILITY. Because a statement that is INFALLIBLE, without error, is supposed to be IRREFORMABLE. If there is reforming, and changing, TO OPPOSITE VIEWS, who is this infallible and irreformable faith? It is rather, developed, contrived, and then arrived at, under the auspices of THE ONE. You’re right, God knows us too well. He that wishes to be first, let him be last. Let no one approach with triumphalism and think he’s running the show. Let no one be SELF SEEKING, but seeking the common good, the good of the Church, that it abide in Truth.[/quote:216a0x7m]
Yet to be seen Ted. All I have gotten is church father quotes and history. We can go toe to toe with you guys on that. About your stauch Orthodoxy, I once posed a question to you about contraceptives and you said that it was not accepted, but then you humbily continued that you were not the best source for Orthodoxy. So I asked you for a source I may go to. In my research I found that the following site [url:216a0x7m]http://www.mospat.ru/text/e_conception/id/4047.html[/url:216a0x7m]
had this to say about contraceptives:
[b:216a0x7m]Official Web Server of the Moscow Patriarchate[/b:216a0x7m]
[quote:216a0x7m]XII. 3. Among the problems which need a religious and moral assessment is that of contraception. Some contraceptives have an abortive effect, interrupting artificially the life of the embryo on the very first stages of his life. Therefore, the same judgements are applicable to the use of them as to abortion. But other means, which do not involve interrupting an already conceived life, cannot be equated with abortion in the least. In defining their attitude to the non-abortive contraceptives, Christian spouses should remember that human reproduction is one of the principal purposes of the divinely established marital union (see, X. 4). The deliberate refusal of childbirth on egoistic grounds devalues marriage and is a definite sin.
At the same time, spouses are responsible before God for the comprehensive upbringing of their children. One of the ways to be responsible for their birth is to restrain themselves from sexual relations for a time. However, Christian spouses should remember the words of St. Paul addressed to them: ‘Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency’ (1 Cor. 7:5). Clearly, spouses should make such decisions mutually on the counsel of their spiritual father. The latter should take into account, with pastoral prudence, the concrete living conditions of the couple, their age, health, degree of spiritual maturity and many other circumstances. In doing so, he should distinguish those who can hold the high demands of continence from those to whom it is not given (Mt. 19:11), taking care above all of the preservation and consolidation of the family.
The Holy Synod of the Russian Orthodox Church in its Decision of December 28, 1998, instructed the clergy serving as spiritual guides that ‘it is inadmissible to coerce or induce the flock to: refuse conjugal relations in marriage’. It also reminded the pastors of the need ‘to show special chastity and special pastoral prudence in discussing with the flock the questions involved in particular aspects of their family life’.[/quote:216a0x7m]
This obviously allows contraceptive measures, and does not condemn them in the least. I don’t mean to go off topic but this is only to show that your stauch Orthodox Church has been silent and I do not see her combatting heresy for the last 800 years or so…. no councils condeming sola fide… nothing about the enlightenment and any of the heretical philosophies (nihlism, positivism etc) that have arisen. Is there any difinitive agreement on these New Age ways of thinking in the OC? This is only part of what I found. It seems there is also exceptions for Abortion and Patriach Kalistos has a bit to say about contraceptives. Quite frankly if I wanted to become Orthodox, I would be confused. Is this your stauch Orthodox Church Ted?