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[b:2ry5fxvz][color=darkblue:2ry5fxvz]Reply to post #1[/color:2ry5fxvz][/b:2ry5fxvz]

[quote:2ry5fxvz]Marriage is for procreation.

This argument against gay marriage is retarded! So only those who enter marriage witht the intention of producing children should be allowed to marry?[/quote:2ry5fxvz]

Ok, sorry, let me back up. To me it sounds like you are implying something that you think I am saying and that being that marriage is [i:2ry5fxvz]only[/i:2ry5fxvz] for procreation. I never said that and I never will because that is not the case.

For a Catholic, sacramental marriage the couple must meet some conditions: freedom to marry, openness to life and conjugal love (I think – I always have a hard time remembering the third one <img decoding=” title=”Wink” /> ).

A gay couple by nature is not open to life in their marriage because they together do not have the necessary, natural equipment to create life. This is one reason why there is no homosexual marriage.

[quote:2ry5fxvz]What if the women is past her prime? My grandma got remarried at 62. Should she have been denied the right to marry, because obviously she had no intention of having children. Hey! What about those people that have fertility troubles and have to adopt? Should their marriage be nulled on the grounds that they can’t procreate?[/quote:2ry5fxvz]

Exceptions can be made for people that are inhibited naturally from reproducing [b:2ry5fxvz]as long as they are [u:2ry5fxvz]open to life[/u:2ry5fxvz][/b:2ry5fxvz]. So if a woman is past her prime or a couple is infertile, then they are not in opposition to life, but rather they are unable to conceive through no fault of their own.

[quote:2ry5fxvz]And what about those men and women that just don’t want any kids? Many women and men become so involved in their own careers and lives that children aren’t even a consideration.[/quote:2ry5fxvz]

Then marriage is not for them, plain and simple. Marriage was ordained to bring two people together to bring each other closer to God and to bring new life into the world under a loving family (loving family is the ideal anyway). So, if people want to consume themselves in their career then go for it, but if they have no intention of being open to life then forget about marriage.

Now, let me clarify something. In the event that a couple is suffering extreme economic hardship or there is some other good reason why they feel they should not have children then it is ok (as long as a natural form of contraception is used like NFP). However, they still need to be open to the fact that pregnancy is a possibilty no matter how careful they are and if the woman does get pregnant they need to be open to that. If they are not open to that then they should not be married and I believe their marriage would not be considered sacramental.

[b:2ry5fxvz][color=darkblue:2ry5fxvz]Reply to Post #2:[/color:2ry5fxvz][/b:2ry5fxvz]

[quote:2ry5fxvz]This website seems a bit more sophisticated than the other one that i was ‘trolling’. They were too archaic in their responses.[/quote:2ry5fxvz]

Thank you, I feel the same way. <img decoding=” title=”Very Happy” />

[quote:2ry5fxvz]Catholics are by far (please don’t be offended) the snottiest bunch. […] Whereas I view tolerance as something to strive for… you guys see it as a defect.[/quote:2ry5fxvz]

Don’t worry, I’ve heard worse, but as long as we can all be civil and discuss these issues without any accusations or name-calling then I think we will do just fine. <img decoding=” title=”Wink” />

Don’t you think a form of tolerance is a willingness to discuss the issues? (which, btw, I always promote discussion).

[quote:2ry5fxvz]Also I know that Catholics are not the most accepting bunch of people, so why baptize my child in an institution that is outspoken in their bigotry?[/quote:2ry5fxvz]

I think that’s due to a poor display of true Christian character by many cafeteria Catholics. I’m not saying I am perfect, but I do not condemn everything that comes my way either. I listen with love and share my thoughts from the heart – honestly. Hopefully you’ll come away with a slightly different opinion about Catholics after dialoguing here (or maybe you won’t <img decoding=” title=”Neutral” /> )

[quote:2ry5fxvz]It was beautiful. And cold. Not to mention that the bleeding Jesus on the cross gave me nightmares. How morbid?! I always thought that church was to celebrate the life of Jesus.[/quote:2ry5fxvz]

In my experience, you get as much out of the mass as you put into it. That’s all I’m gonna say about that one.

As far as the cross thing goes, I wrote something about that in another post: http://www.aboutcatholics.com/community … c.php?t=58

[quote:2ry5fxvz]I am pretty sure you guys don’t get these types of advice questions every day. But I really would like to know if I should honor her family’s tradition and allow it. [/quote:2ry5fxvz]

My only advice is to talk it out with her. I don’t really know what to say. Have you voiced your opinion about this to her? Personally, and this may seem like a long shot to you, but I think if you baptize the child and try to foster its faith and your girlfriends you might start to see a whole different side to Catholicism.

[quote:2ry5fxvz]By the way. We are both the mothers. Biologically and physically. Don’t ask. [/quote:2ry5fxvz]

I figured that much. <img decoding=” title=”Wink” />

[quote:2ry5fxvz]Oh and if you post some hateful rhetoric… I can’t stop you.[/quote:2ry5fxvz]

That won’t happen here because I won’t allow it from anyone, no matter their position on an argument. I have seen it be the downfall of many other Catholic and non-Catholic messageboards.

Chloe, I think you have put forth many things and I want to thank you for sharing them. I can tell that by your concern for your girlfriend that you do care for her very much.

I hope you don’t find any of this to be hateful because I sure don’t mean to make it sound that way. <img decoding=” title=”Smile” />