Home › Forums › All Things Catholic › the existence of purgatory › Reply To: the existence of purgatory
True, the traditions/practices of the Jews were to pray for the dead but this was never ever allowed but even warned by the Apostles of Christ during their time not to do. Colosas 2:8 NKJV – “Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.”
Because traditions of the Jews were pagan and never according to the Law of Moses all the way to the last book of Revelation (Hence, if you read the entire bible, you cannot quote any verse from the true children of God, praying for the dead, nor the mention of a purgatory in which servants of God are in a “middle zone” before the head into Heaven or Hell.
But to reiterate, no verse (Because of it was never taught) Purgatory and the “praying for the sake of the Dead” was never practiced.
And as far as the Lazarus and the Rich Man, is the connotation there that because a man was able to see the events or experience such events, Purgatory automatically exists? Or is it just that God willed it?
– His reply.
“Empty deceit?” all this from a guy who says a friend said somewhere in the prophets or psalms it says..
It don’t get anymore worthless than that!! Yet you passed it on?
back up your statement ‘Never allowed!” The Jews honored their dead, named their sons after their dead They called on Abraham,carried Josephs bones for 400 yrs (Ex 13:19) and until burying him buried in Sechem, after Joshua’s death(Josh 24:32).
and you simply say Not allowed? Where is that specifically in scripture, cause if you’re holding us to specifics and then and then ignore them, you bring up rhetoric and ask us to hold onto that as Truth???
Col 2:8 doesn’t prove that!!
It is about pursuing mystical experiences through ascetic practices
[severe self discipline and abstention from all forms of indulgence/ proto gnostic thought] Jewish practices that did not focus on Christ.
How about Hbr 13:7 “Remember your leaders, those who spoke to you the word of God; consider the outcome of their life, and imitate their faith”
CCC# 956 “The intercession of the saints. “Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness. . . . They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus . . . . So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped.” (1 Tim 2:5)
Do not weep, for I shall be more useful to you after my death and I shall help you then more effectively than during my life.496
I want to spend my heaven in doing good on earth.497
#957 Communion with the saints. “It is not merely by the title of example that we cherish the memory of those in heaven; we seek, rather, that by this devotion to the exercise of fraternal charity the union of the whole Church in the Spirit may be strengthened. Exactly as Christian communion among our fellow pilgrims brings us closer to Christ, so our communion with the saints joins us to Christ, from whom as from its fountain and head issues all grace, and the life of the People of God itself”498:
We worship Christ as God’s Son; we love the martyrs as the Lord’s disciples and imitators, and rightly so because of their matchless devotion towards their king and master. May we also be their companions and fellow disciples!499
#958 Communion with the dead. “In full consciousness of this communion of the whole Mystical Body of Jesus Christ, the Church in its pilgrim members, from the very earliest days of the Christian religion, has honored with great respect the memory of the dead; and ‘because it is a holy and a wholesome thought to pray for the dead that they may be loosed from their sins’ she offers her suffrages for them.”500 Our prayer for them is capable not only of helping them, but also of making their intercession for us effective.
Pious Jews practicing pagan practices?? Sorry No. Sorry washing hands was good hygiene some Jews made it greater process than it needed to be, on both sides of the fence.
It was the law:
Exd 30:21 They shall wash their hands and their feet, lest they die: it shall be a statute for ever to them, even to him and to his descendants throughout their generations.”
Exd 30:19 with which Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet.
Instances cropped up and then people would ask how to wash their hands?
Job 9:30 If I wash myself with snow, and cleanse my hands with lye.
Paul backs up Tradtions:
Gal 1:14 and I advanced in Judaism beyond many of my own age among my people, so extremely zealous was I for the traditions of my fathers.
1:13 “My former conduct in Judaism, how I persecuted the church of God beyond measure and tried to destroy it”
David Guzik, Protestant commentary:
Paul’s credentials as a zealous Jew, persecuting Christians, are beyond doubt. Acts 8:1-3 and 9:1-2 describe Paul’s energetic persecution of Christians.
i. This shows that Paul was not looking for some other truth when he was first confronted with the gospel of Jesus. Unfortunately, many of those who are seeking a “new revelation” will find it – and find deception that draws them away from Jesus Christ (like a young Joseph Smith, the founder of the Mormon church)
Jesus did not condemn all traditions:
Protestant Commentary on Mark 7:3,
iv. “There had grown up a great body of traditions; traditions which in the first place were intended to be interpretations of the law, and applications of the law to local circumstances; traditions which in the second place became interpretations of traditions, and applications of traditions; and the traditions in the third place, which were interpretations of interpretations of interpretations of traditions!” (Morgan)
There was and is a great Oral Tradition which Jesus and the Bible affirms when he tells the people to listen to the oral teachings
Mat 23:2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat;
23:3 so practice and observe whatever they tell you, but not what they do; for they preach, but do not practice.
They read Scripture standing, and sat to expound/ teach the meaning.
That it is the Church that holds the manifold of wisdom, Not the Bible:
to make all men see what is the plan of the mystery hidden for ages in God who created all things;
10 that through the church the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known to the principalities and powers in the heavenly places.
11 This was according to the eternal purpose which he has realized in Christ Jesus our Lord,
That it is the Church that is:
1Ti 3:14-15 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you so that,
if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.
The bible is still has not been written as of yet, and it is by Oral- Tradition, Instruction and witness that spreading the Gospels.
Like it or not Priests have been Bridges between God and His word to His People
Neh 8:8 And they read from the book, from the law of God, clearly; and they gave the sense, so that the people understood the reading.