Hello weather…. Im new to this chat room… Ive recently this year been studying Jesus. I say studying Jesus for I grew up catholic but my father was christian and so I was confused on why their was SO many different types of religions. So I took the bible this year and studied …. I prayed day in and day out… and slowly began to understand the word of god… and with the help of my brother who is a pastor as well… I began to grow spiritually in Christ.
God began to speak to me in different ways and I began to develop a understanding that US on earth shouldn’t be arguing and debating on whose church is correct or not…the only type of evidence we have of Jesus is IN THE SCRIPTURES and I learned that some folks take out one or two verses and claim it to mean on thing without taking into consideration that the surrounding sentences give essence to what that sentence means.
Not all catholics are catholics and not all christian or “Lutherans” are Lutherans. Ive also learned that their are many catholics who don’t even understand their own “traditions” and I learned that their are many corrupt minds that twist the scriptures to mean things that they do not mean. Ive found Catholics and Christians and so on to do this.
All in all one must have a really good knowledge of the bible and churches origins… have a knowledge of the scripture and the way it what written. They must be one with god through prayer and self repentance to Jesus AND ONLY HIM in order to grasp his knowledge and understand the way he taught his disciples. HIS COMMANDS in the new testament are written clearly for those who have eyes.
The priest and bishops are not the only ones who have the write to interpret verses for I heard many interpretations that were FAR from the truth after i read surrounding sentences and GOT THE WHOLE PICTURE… and after studying the bible I learned so much about Jesus so much more that I wish I could share it with the world.
You see its not by FAITH that we make it into heaven… ITS BY FAITH we are SAVED… after we are saved and forgiven… our faith brings our heart into a transformation of divine truth and self denial. We are faithful in christ to the point that we would do anything and everything for him to find us righteous when we are judged. And this profound faith will lead us into doing everything else he has commanded us to do.
“..”knowing that a man is not justified by the Works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be Saved!” Galatians 2:16
also “By this undeserved kindness, indeed, you have been saved through faith, and this not owing to you, it is God’s gift.” Ephesians 2:8-9
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written,
“Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for “He who through faith is righteous shall live”; but the law does not rest on faith, for “He who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us — for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who hangs on a tree” — that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:10-14
You see by faith we are saved BUT by doing gods will and Jesus’s teachings we will continue to KEEP our salvation. For we CANNOT have our salvation taken away from us . “And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.” John 10:28
Your relationship with God, as well as your eternal salvation are based upon faith. Faith that Jesus Christ is who, and what He says he is. And thus if you are still committing sins, going against Jesus’s newer version of the ten commandments where he condenses them into two:
“..Thou shalt Love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like unto it, thy shalt Love thy neighbor as thyself. On these two commandments hang all the law and the Prophets. Matthew 22:37-40 then you simply don’t believe who Jesus is. A person practicing the above sinful actions, certainly indicates that the person no longer has any faith or belief in Jesus Christ.
On Top of Jesus saying for us to obey those two commandments as the most important he also states in that verse to hang them on the rest of laws. (law of moses and the prophets). In saying this he tells us that by following these two commandments we fulfill the rest. Hes NOT saying all we have to do is love thy neighbor and love god with all your heart and go on with your life. But what hes insisting is that when someone loves god WITH ALL THEIR HEART and loves others as they love themselves….how could they do any harm. Subcontiously we will obey every other of his commandments… because a truly loving person cannot willingly do harm to others or themselves or god. Jesus is intelligent and extremely wise with a abundant of understanding. He knows us better than we know ourselves. He also did not come to abolish the law (Matthew 5:17) but to fulfill them in away that we are no longer condemned or held captive because the old sacrifice system wasn’t enough to save us.
The law is only a shadow of the good things that are coming—not the realities themselves. For this reason it can never, by the same sacrifices repeated endlessly year after year, make perfect those who draw near to worship. Otherwise, would they not have stopped being offered? For the worshipers would have been cleansed once for all, and would no longer have felt guilty for their sins. But those sacrifices are an annual reminder of sins. It is impossible for the blood of bulls and goats to take away sins.
Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:
“Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me;
with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased.
Then I said, ‘Here I am—it is written about me in the scroll—
I have come to do your will, my God.’
First he said, “Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them”—though they were offered in accordance with the law. Then he said, “Here I am, I have come to do your will.” He sets aside the first to establish the second. And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
Day after day every priest stands and performs his religious duties; again and again he offers the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, and since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool. For by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.
The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
Then he adds:
“Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more.”
And where these have been forgiven, sacrifice for sin is no longer necessary. Hebrews 10:1-18
And so why do catholics insist on eating the body of Christ ?
Out of the mouth of a Priest : he says that a Catholic would say the Eucharist is the sacrifice of Jesus on the Calvary that this is not a different sacrifice from the on Jesus did on the cross .. it is the same sacrifice…. UMMM?? was Jesus’s death on the cross not good enough? and didn’t you read the previous verses where it says continual sacrificing isn’t enough??? Is that not why Jesus came in the first place?
We Christians believe that Jesus Christ died for our sins in our place. He is our representative sacrifice. We believe that He rose again from the dead on the third day never to die again. We believe His work of salvation is finished, that the righteous demands of God are fully satisfied in the work of Christ on the cross, and that there is salvation in no other (Mark 10:45; Romans 6:1-14; Romans 3:24-25; 1 Pet. 1:18-19; 2:24; John 19:30; Hebrews 10:18; John 14:6).
We believe that all who repent and believe the gospel are eternally saved. Salvation is a free gift of God apart from any human merit. We believe that God’s gracious offer of salvation can only be received freely, and that those who would add human merit to the gospel preach a false gospel (Mark 1:15; Romans 10:9-10; Ephesians 2:8-10; Galatians 2:21; 3:10).
We believe that every genuine believer is born again, sealed with the Spirit of God, and eternally secure in Christ. We believe that the evidence of new birth is the fruit of the Spirit and obedience to Christ. Every believer is a member of the body of Christ, the church, and gifted by the Holy Spirit for spiritual service. We believe that the goal of the Holy Spirit in this age is to glorify Christ. We believe that Christ alone is the head of the church and that we are called to serve Him. We believe that the local church is God’s primary means for reaching the lost and nurturing the saved (John 5:7; 1 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 1:13; 1 Corinthians 12:13; 1 Corinthians 12:11; John 16:14; Colossians 1:18; Luke 9:23; Matthew 16:18).
Now I say we read from the same bible don’t we? the catholic bible just contains extra books in the old testament BUT the New testament is the same in which is the Testament we are to be living by… Jesus is the ONLY way. But I do not judge you in what you choose to keep from the old testament rules for in the bible it says
“one person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God. Romans 14:5-6
BUT why live by the old law? why do these weird traditions and things the bible warns us about? .
You see, during the old testament… gods people were held accountable to the law. If they did not do certain ceremonial washes or celebrations or any of the old laws of Moses they’d be condemned and not right with god. These things were mandatory. “we are severed from Christ if we keep the law”. (Galatians 5:3-4). Jesus came and fulfilled this law that we may not be held accountable. On the Old testament people were disobedient and frustrated god for their uncareless acts. So Jesus came and died for our sins as one sacrifice for all. He nailed the old laws to the cross and pronounced new ones.” because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. “ Romans 8:2
According to the word sin has no permanent power, although we do know we struggle with it daily. For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace. Romans 6:14. The bible also declares that we died along with Jesus on the cross and through him we were given new life when he resurrected…another chance to gain access to the kingdom of god in a more human approachable way. He died so that we no longer have to keep ceremonial worships, or tithings, or sacrificing. He is the “end of the law”. Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. Romans 10:4 With faith we are saved.. confessing with our lips he is the only way we are saved… but through obeying his teachings, loving god and one another as ourselves, and believing that Jesus truly existed and did all these things for our sins we keep our salvation. Now if we choose to do otherwise… as god says no one can take our salvation… no one can snatch us from his BUT we can surely give our salvation back by being disobedient. Now lets say you want to continue to live by the law…. all these additional teachings
For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, “Cursed be every one who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, and do them.” Now it is evident that no man is justified before God by the law; for “He who through faith is righteous shall live”; but the law does not rest on faith, for “He who does them shall live by them.” Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us — for it is written, “Cursed be everyone who hangs on a tree” — that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Galatians 3:10-14)
Now I understand that the bible spoke of tradition””
But we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you withdraw from every brother who walks disorderly and not according to the tradition which he received from us (2 Thessalonians 3:6).
And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also (2 Timothy 2:2).
Now I praise you, brethren, that you remember me in all things and keep the traditions just as I delivered them to you (1 Corinthians 11:2).
it is clear that Paul is saying that Christians should pay attention to the tradition that he and other church leaders taught. But does that mean that tradition is on equal or superior footing to the Bible? NO.. he didn’t say for us to make our own tradition he said to listen to what they have taught us.
…we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means (2 Thessalonians 2:1-3).
Seems like some pretended to write or claimed to have oral teachings as if from Paul and the apostles, but they were false. Its warning against false teachings. So does the oral tradition contain deceptive or anti-biblical information?
…you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Timothy 3:15-17).
Notice that Paul makes it clear that doctrine comes from the scriptures and that the scriptures themselves are there so “that the man of God may be complete”.
Note that tradition is not needed for the man of God to be complete nor needed to be “thoroughly equipped for every good work”.
Also note that the Holy Scriptures themselves, and not tradition, are able to make one “wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus”. Thus, perhaps the most dogmatic issues in the Bible CAN be determined from the Bible WITHOUT tradition.
Preach the word! (2 Timothy 4:2)
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (Romans 10:17).
Notice that hearing (and even faith) comes from the word of God, not traditions.
Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ (Colossians 2:.
This verse speaks for itself !!!
…are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works (2 Corinthians 11:13-15).
Indeed, let God be true but every man a liar” (Romans 3:4).
All in all… the scriptures were finished… don’t let anyone take or add… it stated in the bible… in which the old testament was already established for Jesus himself read from them when he was proving that he was in fact the messiah to come. So although our bibles differ in the Old testament… the new testament is stable and we have no control over past generations that decided to take some out. SO if we read from the same bible why do we hear or believe different things. Its because catholics listen to mere men of our days. The holy scriptures finished with jesus there was no need for any additional teachings but for us to teach from what we were reading from the apostles. No man was to add or take away. And that is literal in a sense that we cannot add human morals and beliefs such as creating daily mass… praying to statues….the rosary…worshiping Mary… DO YOU HEAR ME… ?? those who have ears let them hear… a phrase said in the bible bye my lord and merciful savior himself. If it comes to a day where every church began its own traditions Id stay home studying the word and praying to god for no man will teach me otherwise than what they lord gave me through his apostles in the FINALIZED scriptures theres no more need for extra teachings… I believe spontaneous apostles such as peter and Paul end their. There will never be anymore of apostles such as these for they saw Jesus with theirs eyes….felt his hands…seen his blood being shed!!!! It has ended with them and now we will receive prophetic words yes, but NEW teachings? NO… messages from god? YES.. NEW rules on worship… new rules on who to pray to…? NO
Inasmuch as many have taken in hand to set in order a narrative of those things which have been fulfilled among us, just as those who from the beginning were eyewitnesses and ministers of the word delivered them to us, it seemed good to me also, having had perfect understanding of all things from the very first, to write to you an orderly account, most excellent Theophilus, that you may know the certainty of those things in which you were instructed (Luke 1:1-4).
Luke is making it clear that this writing is to set down in order the narrative (scriptural approved oral tradition) for the purpose of making what should be known as a certainty. Unwritten oral traditions can never be known as a certainty that God approves them.
He who called you is holy, you also be holy in all your conduct, because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.” And if you call on the Father, who without partiality judges according to each one’s work, conduct yourselves throughout the time of your stay here in fear; knowing that you were not redeemed with corruptible things, like silver or gold, from your aimless conduct received by tradition from your fathers (1 Peter 1:15-18).
Peter is saying that many needed to be redeemed from the conduct taught by traditions received from fathers, and that conduct should be based on what is written.
John lived the longest in which i think is jesus wanted to add anything.. he would have used him
This is the disciple who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true (John 21:24).
Little children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that the Antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have come, by which we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us (1 John 2:18-19).
You are of God, little children, and have overcome them, because He who is in you is greater than he who is in the world. 5 They are of the world. Therefore they speak as of the world, and the world hears them. 6 We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error (1 John 4:4-6).
Notice that John specifically wrote that those that did not follow what he was teaching those who were with them, that they are not of God.
Jude also warned that some who had heard proper teachings would go out and change teachings based on their words, as he wrote:
I found it necessary to write to you exhorting you to contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints. For certain men have crept in unnoticed, who long ago were marked out for this condemnation, ungodly men…These are grumblers, complainers, walking according to their own lusts; and they mouth great swelling words, flattering people to gain advantage (Jude 3-4,16).
Christ used John to record the final oral teachings, which He told him,
What you see, write in a book (Revelation 1:11).
And this was recorded which demonstrates that this is the final scriptural teaching that should be preserved and not added to
“For I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: If anyone adds to these things, God will add to him the plagues that are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part from the Book of Life, from the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book (Revelation 22:18-19).
REMEMBER what Jesus said about traditions:( Matthew 15:1-3 ; 6-9 )(Mark 7:1-13).
“Clearly, you are a letter from Christ showing the result of our ministry among you. This “letter” is written not with pen and ink, but with the Spirit of the living God. It is carved not on tablets of stone, but on human hearts. We are confident of all this because of our great trust in God through Christ. It is not that we think we are qualified to do anything on our own. Our qualification comes from God. He has enabled us to be ministers of his new covenant. This is a covenant not of written laws, but of the Spirit. The old written covenant ends in death; but under the new covenant, the Spirit gives life.” 2 Corinthians 3:3-7
“This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds.”
This infact correlates with what Jesus said In the book of hebrews chapter 10 … It states here that we infact are letters from christ…anyone who follows him has become a walking letter. For Jesus said that he will put his laws in our hearts. With the holy spirit we can become connected with god in way that everything will become clear and percise. my friend dont allow men of this world to tell you that you must come to them for interpetation of the bible… the bible was made for everyone… We should worship our lord Jesus and his father whom our one… in spirit aswell… him in three devine ways are all we need… study the bible for yourself and then you will know the truth and the truth shall set you free My the lord guide your thoughts in a beautiful way. god bless.