where did MArtin Luther say this?

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This topic contains 21 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  passionately_catholic 4 years, 11 months ago.

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  • #1956

    i heard this was a sermon, or is it a writing of his?

    “If Christ had not entrusted all power to one man, the Church would not have been perfect because there would have been no order and each one would have been able to say he was led by the Holy Spirit. This is what the heretics did, each one setting up his own principle. In this way as many Churches arose as there were heads. Christ therefore wills, in order that all may be assembled in one unity, that His power be exercised by one man to whom He Himself commits it. He has, however, made this power so strong that He looses all the powers of Hell (without injury) against it. He says: “The Gates of Hell shall not prevail against it” as though He said: “They will fight against it but never overcome it,” so it is in this way it is made manifest that this power is in reality from God and not from man. Wherefore, whoever breaks away from this unity and order of the power, let him not boast of great enlightenment and wonderful works, as our Picards and other heretics do, ‘for much better is obedience than to be the victims of fools who know not what evil they do”

    can i find this in a book?

    #9502

    LARobert
    Participant

    Martin Luther,”Sermo in Vincula S. Petri” (August 1, 1516), Werke, Weimar edition, I (1883), p. 69.

    He preached this sermon one year before he split with the Church.

    #9503

    thanks, but can i find this in any book?

    #9505

    LARobert
    Participant

    The above is the German edition of the Book, I’ve been looking for an english translation of the text.

    #9510

    how about calvin, was he a follower of luther and then split from him?

    #9514

    LARobert
    Participant

    No, Calvin started his own theology around the same time as Luther, He and Luther actually wrote very derogatory things about each other, they even cursed each other using very vulgar words. Calvin established a Theocracy in Geneva Switzerland, and commanded that those who rejected his theological teachings be hanged for heretical teachings.

    In the Century surrounding Luther’s break with the Catholic Church there were many Protestant Churches that were founded, as a result of each man interpreting the BIlbe as he saw it.

    #9519

    i read that calvin was also a former catholic, is this true? was he also a priest when still a catholic?

    how about zwingli?

    thanks

    #9522

    LARobert
    Participant

    I don’t remember Calvin as having been a priest. Zwingley and some of the other founders of Protestantism were priests who defected away from the Church.

    #9542

    James
    Member

    Calvin was actually a lawyer if I’m not mistaken. King Henry VIII was the founder of the Church of England and, of course, he wasn’t a clergy member. He did, however, split from the Roman Catholic Church for more secular things rather than religious reasons as the other Protestant Reformers did.

    #9543

    James
    Member

    @ LARobert: Where could I find the German Edition of that book? It would help with my German studies immensely <img src=” title=”Very Happy” />

    #9551

    weather
    Member
    #9553

    James
    Member

    thank you weather for the link! <img src=” title=”Smile” />

    #9615

    James
    Member

    Haha…when I was in Germany (Dresden to be exact,) when I bought my Pastor and myself a copy of the Luther translation of the Bible. With my 2 years of my own study and 4 years of classroom German, I could understand most of it <img src=” title=”Very Happy” />

    #9721

    “I do not wish to see or hear anything of Moses. If we allow the 10 commandments any influence on our conscience they become the cloak of evil, heretics, and blasphemers. If Moses should intimidate you with his 10 commandments, tell him right off to chase himself to the Jews. Moses should forever be looked about with suspicion, even as a heretic, damned, even worse than the Pope and the devil.” – did Luther really say this?

    #9726

    James
    Member
    "passionately_catholic":2m3fzqdr wrote:
    “I do not wish to see or hear anything of Moses. If we allow the 10 commandments any influence on our conscience they become the cloak of evil, heretics, and blasphemers. If Moses should intimidate you with his 10 commandments, tell him right off to chase himself to the Jews. Moses should forever be looked about with suspicion, even as a heretic, damned, even worse than the Pope and the devil.”[/quote:2m3fzqdr]
    Where, may I ask, did you get this quote?

    And even if he said it, he has a point. It may not be a point you may believe but a point nonetheless.

    I believe since the Jews have no New Testament (They only have the Old Testament, or the Hebrew Bible as they call it,) they have no Salvation through Christ. They use the Decalogue (or The Ten Commandments) as their way of Morality. No one, not even the most “perfect” human can follow the Ten Commandments. We all fall short in the Glory of God if we use the Decalogue only. Point being, Christians (in my case being a Lutheran,) believe that these Commandments are known as an S.O.S, a fun acronym meaning, in this case, Shows Our Sin. The New Testament, where the works and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ are abundant, is another S.O.S. This time it means Shows Our Salvation.

    What Dr. Luther is trying to say is that we shouldn’t make our focus on only God’s Commandments because no matter how hard we try, we will always fail. Instead, Grace and our Faith in Christ save us from Damnation.

    #9728

    got it here
    http://www.unitypublishing.com/Appariti … alupe.html

    even i cant find where that was taken, so i wanted to know if he even said that
    maybe he didnt?

    there are also a lot of things in there that i dont know if its true <img src=” title=”Neutral” />

    #9729
    "James":1rr57ztu wrote:
    "passionately_catholic":1rr57ztu wrote:
    “I do not wish to see or hear anything of Moses. If we allow the 10 commandments any influence on our conscience they become the cloak of evil, heretics, and blasphemers. If Moses should intimidate you with his 10 commandments, tell him right off to chase himself to the Jews. Moses should forever be looked about with suspicion, even as a heretic, damned, even worse than the Pope and the devil.”[/quote:1rr57ztu]
    Where, may I ask, did you get this quote?

    And even if he said it, he has a point. It may not be a point you may believe but a point nonetheless.

    I believe since the Jews have no New Testament (They only have the Old Testament, or the Hebrew Bible as they call it,) they have no Salvation through Christ. They use the Decalogue (or The Ten Commandments) as their way of Morality. No one, not even the most “perfect” human can follow the Ten Commandments. We all fall short in the Glory of God if we use the Decalogue only. Point being, Christians (in my case being a Lutheran,) believe that these Commandments are known as an S.O.S, a fun acronym meaning, in this case, Shows Our Sin. The New Testament, where the works and grace of our Lord Jesus Christ are abundant, is another S.O.S. This time it means Shows Our Salvation.

    What Dr. Luther is trying to say is that we shouldn’t make our focus on only God’s Commandments because no matter how hard we try, we will always fail. Instead, Grace and our Faith in Christ save us from Damnation.[/quote:1rr57ztu]
    if i understand your statement correctly, i think i actually do believe this point
    i was just disturbed at how he said it(if he really did say it)

    #9732

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    Just FYI – I’m moving this topic since it is not directly related to discussion about Catholic beliefs.

    #9734

    James
    Member

    @passionately_catholic

    I could see why you would be disturbed by this statement, but all I see is that Dr. Luther was trying to make a clear statement about our salvation through Christ

    #9740

    i get your point thanks

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