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September 4, 2005 at 2:09 pm #1132AnonymousInactive
When I asked a priest why Mary is called by a name that is Only in the OT (Jeremiah 7:18 and 44:17-25!), he finally ADMITTED that “There was an ancient pagan myth about an angry young god who never refused a request of his much more loving, forgiving, compassionate and merciful Mother, the queen of heaven.” He told me that “When the ancient ROMAN empire conquered the surrounding pagan nations, since they were all illiterate, WE couldn’t give them Bibles to read – so WE just gave all their pagan Idols and Traditions “Christian” names.
Then he seemed to gulp, before saying, “Thereby WE made whole nations “Christian” overnight?”
Has any one else heard that???
PhineasSeptember 4, 2005 at 2:22 pm #5430About Catholics TeamKeymaster
Hmm…sounds like a made up story or something out of a book.
Please elaborate. I’m not sure what you are trying to communicate.September 4, 2005 at 6:29 pm #5431AnonymousInactive
It is a gross caricature of history and entirely false in what it is trying to convey.
[quote:2j8a99v6]When I asked a priest why Mary is called by a name that is Only in the OT (Jeremiah 7:18 and 44:17-25!)[/quote:2j8a99v6]
The reason Mary is Queen of Heaven is that Jesus is King. The Biblical progression:
1. Jesus is King on the throne of David.
“He shall be great and shall be called the Son of the Most High. And the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of David his father: and he shall reign in the house of Jacob for ever.” Luke 1:32
2. The throne of Judah had a Queen Mother (known as the [i:2j8a99v6]gevirah[/i:2j8a99v6]), not a Queen. The wife of the King of Judah was not the Queen.
3. The Queen Mother had authority.
“Then Bethsabee came to king Solomon, to speak to him for Adonias: and the king arose to meet her, and bowed to her, and sat down upon his throne: and a throne was set for the king’s mother, and she sat on his right hand.” 1 Kings 2:19
The word for throne, kicce, is literally a royal throne or seat of honor. The fact that the gevirah sat at the King’s right hand is another sign of her authority.
4. The position of Queen Mother was official. She had to be deposed to be replaced.
“Moreover, he also removed his grandmother, Maacha, from being the princess in the sacrifices of Priapus, and in the grove which she had consecrated to him: and he destroyed her den, and broke in pieces the filthy idol, and burnt it by the torrent Cedron.” 1 Kings 15:13
5. Mary is Jesus’s mother.
“Behold thou shalt conceive in thy womb and shalt bring forth a son: and thou shalt call his name Jesus.” Luke 1:31
6. Therefore, Mary is Queen because her Son is King.
[quote:2j8a99v6]”There was an ancient pagan myth about an angry young god who never refused a request of his much more loving, forgiving, compassionate and merciful Mother, the queen of heaven.”[/quote:2j8a99v6]
This is partly a fabrication, partly a distortion of several pagan myths. It has spread among the more fundamentalist, anti-Catholic Protestants.
[quote:2j8a99v6]”When the ancient ROMAN empire conquered the surrounding pagan nations, since they were all illiterate, WE couldn’t give them Bibles to read – so WE just gave all their pagan Idols and Traditions “Christian” names.[/quote:2j8a99v6]
This is a gross distortion of history.
First, no Christian converts until modern times were gained by handing out Bibles. The ancient and orthodox Christian faith was passed on through personal instruction in one’s family and, as in the case of converts, in the catechumenate.
Second, the Church did not just give Christian names to pagan myths and idols. Rather, Christianity worked with the pagan views of reality and theology in order to share the truth and remove pagan influences. She began with what the pagans knew and moved them away from darkness and into the light of Christ’s truth. This is especially evident in the transformation of pagan customs into Christian tools. In the early Church, Christians everywhere were familiar with the Roman system of government. So the Church adopted what She could use of that system and transformed it into a tool for governing the Church and sharing the faith. [i:2j8a99v6]Sol Invictus[/i:2j8a99v6], the feast of the Invincible Sun, was transformed from a pagan celebration into a memorial of Christ’s death and resurrection.
It was not a matter of changing the name. It was a matter of changing the substance and purpose of pagan rituals to impart Christian truth.
[quote:2j8a99v6]Then he seemed to gulp, before saying, “Thereby WE made whole nations “Christian” overnight?”[/quote:2j8a99v6]
In some cases, such as in the Caribbean, the Church’s practice was used against Her. The pagan religion of Santa Ria flipped the practice. Rather than allowing the Church to transform their rituals from idolatry, they instead preempted the Church’s work by adopting Christian names for their gods and adorning their rituals with Christian trappings. They gave the appearance of Christianity but even a passing familiarity with Santa Ria reveals the paganism underlying it.
[quote:2j8a99v6]Has any one else heard that?[/quote:2j8a99v6]
Yes, several times. It has been weighed, it has been measured, and it has been found wanting.September 4, 2005 at 6:35 pm #5432AnonymousInactive
Apparently our friend Phineas is Mark Griswold, as several posts by a Mr. Griswold share this same story in expanded form.
Do a Ctrl+F for pagan[/url:2pj5xvf6].September 4, 2005 at 8:26 pm #5433AnonymousInactive
Whet Benedict said.
But yeah, Fundamentalists love this crap. Makes them feel all fuzzy inside to knwo that THEY have the secret conspiracy uncovered, and that THEY are the only ones who know about it, and that THEY need to share this terrific knowledge with the world.
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