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This is actually a long and complicated question that I have not been able to find a real good [b:1pnrehrf]Catholic[/b:1pnrehrf] answer to. I do happen to have a tract about Masons that is published by Evangelicals and it uses mostly their theology to explain why Masons are not considered Christian.
Some of the information from that tract is valuable and I will see if I can regurgitate some of the good parts.
Basically, the thing is that they do not believe that Christ is the only way to heaven. They accept other people of other faiths as being equally valid. They also have some different theology on Jesus – I don’t remember the exact details. Also, I think part of it is the whole “secret society” thing where they are another group that is not necessarily there to promote general Christian values, but their own with their own rites (ceremonial things) that are secret. The church is meant to be public and open, not secret. Jesus did not create a secret society, but one where all are allowed to join.
All of the rites of the Catholic Church are public and meant to be shared with the community – that is the whole ideal behind Christianity is the community, not secrecy.
It’s kind of hard to find good information on the Masons. Most of their websites that I have seen are pretty vague. According to their websites I think the basic requirement for membership is “being a man on good will.” Now whatever that means…who knows? “Good will” is something that has been debated about by philosphers for years.
Anyway, I hope this helps.
” title=”Smile” />P.S. From a moderator standpoint I am going to move this topic to the Non-Christian Religions forum.
Thank you, yes it helps.
” title=”Smile” />I was just having a group discussion today with some friends, and we were talking about the DaVinci Code, which is affiliated with another secret society. It all sounds kind of fishy to me, because like you said, the secret societies and codes are basically not being open to others in the community (keeping almost entirely to themselves) and that is not what Christianity is about.
J and Berry,
Let me start by saying hello and peace be with you both. For the record, I am indeed a Mason. I happened upon your site and found this thread and thought it would be worthwhile to join in on this discussion and perhaps create a few threads of my own. I am a baptised Catholic, and was educated in Catholic schools , I thank God for the discipline and education I recieved from those fine Sisters. With that said, perhaps I could offer up some insight into the fraternity that is Free Masonry.
A statement has been made that “they do not believe Christ is the only way to heavan”. To set the record straight, Masonry teaches no Dogma. Each man is free to seek his spiritual path as he see’s fit. In the USA the “Volume of Sacred Law” in the lodge is the KJV. We are taught to live our lives by the knowledge inculcated within the book. With that understanding it is clear that we do indeed promote Christian values.
Fundamentalist Christians, or “neo-christians” as I like to call them are currently choosing Masonry as their latest target for “ministry”. It is true that I can be in a lodge with men of different faiths and still recognise them as brothers. It is also true that religion and politics are not discussed when the lodge is “at work”. I think that’s one of the biggest problems that Catholics have had with Masonry in the past. I can remember the look my Dad got from Fr. McHugh on Thanksgiving day 30 years ago when he saw his Masonic ring. But they had known eachother for decades and FR. McHugh knew my father was a just man and devout Catholic.
I studied about the conflicts for many months before I decided to petition a lodge. I began to study history and philosophy with a passion that remains with me to this day. You see…after I left my parents home I stopped going to Mass. Eventually I met my wife and we began attending an Evangelical church.(She was a southern Baptist that couldn’t relate to being Catholic so we met in the middle) We became very active in lay ministry and hosted a bible study group in our home for several years. When I spoke to “fundies”, as I now call them, they told me that Masonry was of satan. So I researched and studied and poured over the scriptures and prayed fervently before making my desicion. All of that research led me to the conclusion that the neo-christian fundamentilst movement is one of intolerance, greed and hate….not the love of Christ. As a matter of fact the “fundies” believe that Roman Catholics are of satan as well! If your beliefs don’t fit into their subjective interpretation of scripture then YOU must be wrong. They will actually resort to lies and deciet to further their agenda, not very christian of them is it? I took thier claims and sought the truth to come to these conclusions. I am involved on other discussion boards and am quickly becoming a Masonic apologist. Some of the “anti” boards censor and delete post when the debate becomes one they can not defend. I don’t frequent those sites any longer, though I do indeed search for those discussion forums where all opinions may be heard. I hope that this is such a forum for free thought.
Also, we are not a “secret society”, if we were you wouldn’t know of us.
Our actions are posted in local newsprint and you will find a Masonic embelem upon entering the city, or any other city with a lodge in it for that matter. Many of my brothers in my lodge ar indeed Cathoilcs and I have discussed the issue with them as well. They see no conflict. Now if you are someone that must be evangelizing to every person you meet , in every situation, I could see how you might have a problem with Masonry, but consider this, if you were in a board room making a presentation to your CEO would choose that moment to share your testimony? Perhaps you would, perhaps not, personally I look for “teachable moments” to share my faith with others. Sorry to ramble on for so long. I hope we can have further discussions regarding Masonry and I would be happy to answer any questions you may have regarding our Order. May the peace of Christ be you all.Sincerely,
Gus Allegri
Junior Deacon
Tuolumne East Belt #8,
Sonora, California@Mountainmason: Welcome!
” title=”Smile” /> Yes, free thinking is allowed, but not hate speech so I look forward to great conversations with people on this board as soon as it picks up. We are not here to put others down, but to be able to discuss things and share the love of Christ.With that being said, I will move on.
I do have some questions for clarification purposes just so I can get a better grip on the topic.
Are you still a practicing Catholic or did you not return after your stint with Evangelicalism?
What is the purpose of the Volume of Sacred Law? Why the KJV?
Why wouldn’t the VSL be the same in all lodges universally if it truly is “sacred law”? In lodges dominated by Muslims I have read that the VSL is the Qur’an. To me it only makes sense that the VSL would be consistently the same in all lodges worldwide. Maybe I am just confused about this.
” title=”Confused” />In regards to my comment on it being a secret society I meant that there are many secret rituals in the lodge that one does once they get way high up in rank (I think it is like the 32nd Degree or something like that). Granted, many actions that Masons do are in the news and public it is the other behind the doors stuff that supposedly resembles Satanic rituals that only the priveleged get to see (this is all based on rumors, please don’t hold it against me or think I am calling you Satanic or anything. I am just trying to clear up what I have heard.
” title=”Smile” />)The information that I have seen about Masonry is very sparse. The only thing I can really find about Masons is that they must be “men of good will” or “character” or something like that and that’s about it. I have looked at many lodge websites trying to find out more about specific beliefs and practices and such to see why the Catholic Church takes a stance against it. I have not found much to no avail.
I also share your sentiments about the people you call “neo-Christians” who spread their gospel with hate and deceit. It is rather tragic. I have a few uncles like that. It seems that their way of evangelizing is to point out with the Bible how wrong you are and then show with the same book that God offers forgiveness and that if you do not accept what they say then you are rejecting God.
Anyway, I look forward to your response.
-Jon
P.S. Sorry for the delayed response. I took a little vacation.
[b:1zy23maj]If “truth” is relative, there’s no truth. If truth is secret, there’s no point. Truth is revealed as a gift by God. [/b:1zy23maj]
1. If “truth” is relative, there’s no truth.
This is the internet. How can you believe anything one person or group says is of equal verity and import as anything another person or group says? If that’s your world view, I’ve got a tax-sheltered lease on the New York subway system you need to invest in. Have your credit card handy.
So the Bible, specifically the KJV/King James Version, is equal to the Qu’uran? I think Jesus mentioned those who are lukewarm would be spewed out of His mouth. But, hey, the Qu’uran says to kill all believers in the Book, Old or New Testament. The nominal Christians of the secret brotherhood have nothing to fear if they put the Lodge above the Lord. That’s lukewarm syncretism, all “truths” are equal.
2. If truth is secret, there’s no point.
This is the internet, and there’s virtually no censorship. Secrecy is a kind of insidious censorship. If you’ve got something good, share it. Christians are to share the truth freely, shouting the Good News from every rooftop, placing the lamp of the Way, Truth and Life on a hill, not under a basket.
3. Truth is revealed as a gift by God.
God reveals truth, and has always done so in a long history of showing us His will and His ways. God and His miraculous track record can be contradicted only at one’s eternal peril.
Freemasons are nice. So are Mormons. Really nice. Both sects are Babylonian Mystery Religions, neatly contradicting all that God has revealed through the Chosen People, and those Christians ingrafted and adopted into God’s family by Christ’s ultimate sacrifice.
Christ the God-Man died on the cross. In 1717 the grandaddy of all lodges, the Grand Lodge of London, declared all religions were equal. That includes Islam, which says Christ didn’t die, and He wasn’t God. Jesus was just a great prophet. And nice Allah wouldn’t do that to one of his nice prophets. Muhammed flew up to heaven on a white horse. That’s the way it’s supposed to be, not an inglorious death.
And if anybody’s going to die, it’s the (Christian) unbelievers, who are to be sacrificed to Allah. And why not? Islam doesn’t acknowledge free will. So they convert under duress, something that isn’t kosher in the Eternal God’s free will system. Heaven, or Hell, is your choice. Christ made the right choice in rejecting Lucifer’s worldly realm.
Mormons think Jesus was Lucifer’s spirit brother, and that they will evolve into gods in outer space like the father god who had sex with their version of “Mary.” Freemasons are ever rising up the secrecy scale to become united with noted Masonic author Colonel Pike’s secret ultimate deity, Lucifer, the Enlightened One.
God says spread the Word faithfully and truly. Babylonian Mystery Religions say keep their teachings secret. Masons do, and so do Mormons with their secret temple rites. Secrecy is a “hiding in plain sight” dogma. If you are pro-secrecy, get off the internet. Mormons have no idea where their mandatory 10% tithe goes. Masons need to investigate why their charitable giving has such an abysmally low pass-through rate.
God says all souls are equal in His sight. Babylonian Mystery Religions say there are elites, separated from others in strict castes, classes. So only Temple Mormons can get into the inner sanctum. The degrees of Freemasons mean even insiders are outside the elite core. These nice Mormons and nice Masons have no idea what is going on at the upper echelons.
Look into brotherhood elites like P-2, Masons who hired John Paul II’s assassins; the Bilderbergers; Skull & Bones; and the Bohemian Grove rituals with its Owl Club burning a human in effigy. Research the Knights of the Golden Circle, who were the insiders instigating America’s Civil War while the outsider insiders, the Ku Klux Klan, prosecuted their guerilla war after their loss. Christians are God’s elect, not the elites of the world.
John Ankerberg has re-enactments of lodge ceremonies by real Christian ex-Masons. They show the Royal Arch degree that calls for honoring a triune “god” composed of all the horned gods (demons) of old. IO-BAAL-OM. Get Ankerberg’s videos and books. The nice, low men on the totem pole don’t know this. But they take their blood oaths of secrecy (cross your heart and hope to die) and fork over their dues anyway.
Get the book, [u:1zy23maj]Behind the Lodge Doors[/u:1zy23maj], a better investment than that pricey gold, diamond and ruby ring, no matter how many traffic tickets it gets you out of. I will not deny Christ in the name of brotherhood, or lie to you in the name of the good old boy fraternity. The Truth will set you free. “May God enlighten the eyes of our hearts.”
nordskoven,
that was excellent! I think that’s the first thing I’ve completely understood that you’ve written” title=”Very Happy” />I appreciate your references to that book. I will check into it.
As for those brotherhood things, I’d really like to learn more about them. Supposedly George W. Bush is a part of that Skull & Bones thing. Do you know where I could find more information about these groups whether on the internet or not?
What I want to know is what is so appealng about these groups to people. The secrecy, the weird rites in the upper ranks – I just don’t get it. I want to research this more to find out what the big deal is.
Lots of men become Masons because of the business connections, networking. Lots of men become Masons because of the privileges afforded them. Lots of men become Masons because of the friendly atmosphere in which to perform charitable functions. Lots of men like the cachet of insider knowledge. This is the broad way.
Good business practice should be universally fair, as God repeats again and again in the Bible. Christ eschewed privilege and position, and washed the apostles’ feet, saying those who would rule must serve. Christ told us to reject family and friends if that is needed in service to His kingdom. Christ told us to spread the Gospel openly and freely. This is the narrow way.
Heyo… Here’s the word from Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger, Prefect of the Sacred Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith, ‘Big Joe’ to his friends…
To sum it up: You can’t be a Catholic in good standing AND a Freemason.
[quote:3hr8grqm]Declaration on Masonic Associations (Quaesitum est)
English Translation of a Latin Document from the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith November 26, 1983
It has been asked whether there has been any change in the Church’s decision in regard to Masonic associations since the new Code of Canon Law does not mention them expressly, unlike the previous code.
This sacred congregation is in a position to reply that this circumstance is due to an editorial criterion which was followed also in the case of other associations likewise unmentioned inasmuch as they are contained in wider categories.
Therefore, the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable
with the doctrine of the Church and, therefore, membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful, who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave
sin and may not receive Holy Communion.It is not within the competence of local ecclesiastical authorities to give a judgment on the nature of Masonic associations which would imply a derogation from what
has been decided above, and this in line with the declaration of this sacred congregation issued Feb. 17,1981. [1]In an audience granted to the undersigned cardinal prefect, the Supreme Pontiff John Paul II approved and ordered the publication of this declaration which had
been decided in an ordinary meeting of this sacred congregation.Rome, from the Office of the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Nov. 26, 1983
Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, Prefect
Father Jerome Hamer, O.P. Titular Archbishop of Lorium, Secretary1. Cf. AAS 73 (1981) pp. 240-241.[/quote:3hr8grqm]
mmmerf, can you find any information about the “why”?
Thanks for your post too. It is helpful to know what the Church’s official position on it is.
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Off the top of my head I don’t know the official ‘Why’ of the situation. But you might find it in the Code of Canon Law, or at least know where to look.
Cheers,
Dave
” title=”Smile” />
Isn’t the insignia on our money related to Free Masonry? The “All Seeing Eye” (no not Sauron from Lord of the Rings) over the pyramid marked as “The Great Seal”? (FYI there is a new movie coming out with Nicholas Cage about a hidden treasure found through our nation’s history. I don’t know if this is related or not).
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