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  • #1196

    weather
    Member

    Ancient text shows a different Judas
    RANDOLPH E. SCHMID
    Associated Press
    WASHINGTON – For 2,000 years Judas has been reviled for betraying Jesus. Now a newly translated ancient document seeks to tell his side of the story.

    The “Gospel of Judas” tells a far different tale from the four gospels in the New Testament. It portrays Judas as a favored disciple who was given special knowledge by Jesus – and who turned him in at Jesus’ request.

    “You will be cursed by the other generations – and you will come to rule over them,” Jesus tells Judas in the document made public Thursday.

    The text, one of several ancient documents found in the Egyptian desert in 1970, was preserved and translated by a team of scholars. It was made public in an English translation by the National Geographic Society.

    Religious and lay readers alike will debate the meaning and truth of the manuscript.

    But it does show the diversity of beliefs in early Christianity, said Marvin Meyer, professor of Bible studies at Chapman University in Orange, Calif.

    The text, in the Coptic language, was dated to about the year 300 and is a copy of an earlier Greek version.

    A “Gospel of Judas” was first mentioned around A.D. 180 by Bishop Irenaeus of Lyon, in what is now France. The bishop denounced the manuscript as heresy because it differed from mainstream Christianity. The actual text had been thought lost until this discovery.

    Elaine Pagels, a professor of religion at Princeton University, said, “The people who loved, circulated and wrote down these gospels did not think they were heretics.”

    Added Rev. Donald Senior, president of the Catholic Theological Union of Chicago: “Let a vigorous debate on the significance of this fascinating ancient text begin.”

    Senior expressed doubt that the new gospel will rival the New Testament, but he allowed that opinions are likely to vary.

    Craig Evans, a professor at Acadia Divinity College in Nova Scotia, Canada, said New Testament explanations for Judas’ betrayal range from money to the influence of Satan.

    “Perhaps more now can be said,” he commented. The document “implies that Judas only did what Jesus wanted him to do.”

    Christianity in the ancient world was much more diverse than it is now, with a number of gospels circulating in addition to the four that were finally collected into the New Testament, noted Bart Ehrman, chairman of religious studies at the University of North Carolina.

    Eventually, one point of view prevailed and the others were declared heresy, he said, including the Gnostics who believed that salvation depended on secret knowledge that Jesus imparted, particularly to Judas.

    In Cairo, the editor of the Coptic weekly “Watani,” Youssef Sidhom, did not want to make an immediate judgment on the manuscript.

    “However,” he said, “this will not greatly affect the central belief that considers Judas as a traitor, but there is an old school of thought that says one should not persecute Judas because his role was to complete the prophecies. It seems that the new manuscript will support this point of view – that Judas’ role was pivotal to completing the prophecies.”

    The newly translated document’s text begins: “The secret account of the revelation that Jesus spoke in conversation with Judas Iscariot.”

    In a key passage Jesus tells Judas, “You will exceed all of them. For you will sacrifice the man that clothes me.”

    This indicates that Judas would help liberate the spiritual self by helping Jesus get rid of his physical flesh, the scholars said.

    “Step away from the others and I shall tell you the mysteries of the kingdom,” Jesus says to Judas, singling him out for special status. “Look, you have been told everything. Lift up your eyes and look at the cloud and the light within it and the stars surrounding it. The star that leads the way is your star.”

    The text ends with Judas turning Jesus over to the high priests and does not include any mention of the crucifixion or resurrection.

    National Geographic said the author believed that Judas Iscariot alone understood the true significance of Jesus’ teachings. The author of the text is not named in the writings.

    Discovered in 1970, the papyrus was kept in a safety deposit box for several years and began to deteriorate before conservators restored it. More than 1,000 pieces had to be reassembled.

    The material will be donated to the Coptic museum in Cairo, Egypt, so it can be available to all scholars said Ted Waitt of the Waitt Institute for Historical Discovery, which helped finance the restoration.

    In addition to radio carbon dating, the manuscript was also authenticated through ink analysis, multispectral imaging, content and linguistic style and handwriting style, National Geographic reported.

    #5947

    Victor
    Member

    Hasn’t this already been seen by the Church?
    Early Christian Writings:
    http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/

    What’s new about it now?

    #5948

    weather
    Member

    I don’t know whats new about it in was just in paper today,what amazes me is that it survive almost 2000 years.What is your thoughts that Jesus was surpose to have been married to Mary Magdalen? You have to forgive me on some of my stupitiy I’m new to Cathloic bible study(although I’m 69),but been a Catholic since 1959(use to be Protestant)Opps!! a naughty word.

    #5949

    If true, Judas must be held very high in heaven. Who among us would be willing to have our name cursed so that the will of God would be done?

    #5950

    Victor
    Member

    [quote:3qk19wi3]If true, Judas must be held very high in heaven. Who among us would be willing to have our name cursed so that the will of God would be done?[/quote:3qk19wi3]

    Me…..me….me. You guys can curse my name all you want.
    As long as it means doing God’s Will and I’m going to heaven.
    <img src=” title=”Smile” />

    #5951

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    [quote:1geb79pt]If true, Judas must be held very high in heaven. Who among us would be willing to have our name cursed so that the will of God would be done?[/quote:1geb79pt]
    Well, exactly, Judas had to do what he did. Without Mary saying yes and Judas’ betrayal things would not be what they are – it was part of God’s plan.

    #5952

    Benedict
    Member

    [quote:2teijdzs]Well, exactly, Judas had to do what he did.[/quote:2teijdzs]God’s plan does not rely upon sin. He may, in His omniscience and omnipotence, bring about greater good through and despite man’s sin, but He does not ever will for man to sin (and thus would never rely upon a sin to accomplish His plan).

    The Gospel of Judas is nothing new for the Church. St. Irenaeus of Lyons exposed it and its heresy as far back as 180 AD. The particular article Weather cites here is the same that ran in our daily paper. It is heavily biased in its presentation and choice of expert citations in order to give a greater impression of importance than it deserves.

    #5998

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    [quote:lqe0k93n]God’s plan does not rely upon sin. He may, in His omniscience and omnipotence, bring about greater good through and despite man’s sin, but He does not ever will for man to sin (and thus would never rely upon a sin to accomplish His plan).[/quote:lqe0k93n]
    So it was only a matter of time that Jesus got caught then?

    #5999

    Victor
    Member

    [quote:q8eu1hik][quote:q8eu1hik]God’s plan does not rely upon sin. He may, in His omniscience and omnipotence, bring about greater good through and despite man’s sin, but He does not ever will for man to sin (and thus would never rely upon a sin to accomplish His plan).[/quote:q8eu1hik]
    So it was only a matter of time that Jesus got caught then?[/quote:q8eu1hik]

    I dont know what you mean by this Jon… <img src=” title=”Confused” />

    #6000

    Benedict
    Member

    He means:

    If God did not plan for Judas to betray Him, was Jesus supposed to just wait until He was caught and crucified?

    In the Eastern Churches (Catholic and Orthodox), it is believed that, even had Adam not sinned, Jesus still would have been incarnate (and in so doing raise man up to Him by uniting humanity and divinity in His Person).

    If you consider that God’s plan was the elevation of mankind by uniting humanity and divinity in His Son, then I say that His death was not inevitable but an instance of God working an ultimate good from an evil.

    In this line of thinking, I believe that Jesus would have given up His life freely to atone for our sins without (any ambiguity of) it being taken from Him (as is present in His passion).

    #6001

    Victor
    Member

    [quote:3fhlu0my]He means:

    If God did not plan for Judas to betray Him, was Jesus supposed to just wait until He was caught and crucified?

    In the Eastern Churches (Catholic and Orthodox), it is believed that, even had Adam not sinned, Jesus still would have been incarnate (and in so doing raise man up to Him by uniting humanity and divinity in His Person).

    If you consider that God’s plan was the elevation of mankind by uniting humanity and divinity in His Son, then I say that His death was not inevitable but an instance of God working an ultimate good from an evil.

    In this line of thinking, I believe that Jesus would have given up His life freely to atone for our sins without (any ambiguity of) it being taken from Him (as is present in His passion).[/quote:3fhlu0my]

    You mean like turning Himself in?

    #6002

    Benedict
    Member

    No. At least, not necessarily.

    Jesus was going to die, rise again, and thus defeat death. Because Adam sinned and brought death into us, Jesus had to defeat it for us. It became part of God’s plan (God’s original plan obviously did not include making us fall from grace).

    But I am not certain that Jesus [u:1yut1d65]had[/u:1yut1d65] to die as He did. He did not [u:1yut1d65]have[/u:1yut1d65] to be crucified. Jesus would have defeated death just the same had He died of old age and rose again.

    How it would have happened if it had happened differently is unanswerable if one presumes, as I do, that Jesus only had to die and rise again to do God’s will.

    That is not to say, however, that what happened was the best course of action. God respects our free will, but He is also omniscient and outside of time, so I trust Him to take the best course. The details and connotation surrounding a death by crucifixion were likely better examples of God’s love for us than dying of old age.

    #6005

    Victor
    Member

    [quote:zdj5kubc]No. At least, not necessarily.

    Jesus was going to die, rise again, and thus defeat death. Because Adam sinned and brought death into us, Jesus had to defeat it for us. It became part of God’s plan (God’s original plan obviously did not include making us fall from grace).

    But I am not certain that Jesus [u:zdj5kubc]had[/u:zdj5kubc] to die as He did. He did not [u:zdj5kubc]have[/u:zdj5kubc] to be crucified. Jesus would have defeated death just the same had He died of old age and rose again.

    How it would have happened if it had happened differently is unanswerable if one presumes, as I do, that Jesus only had to die and rise again to do God’s will.

    That is not to say, however, that what happened was the best course of action. God respects our free will, but He is also omniscient and outside of time, so I trust Him to take the best course. The details and connotation surrounding a death by crucifixion were likely better examples of God’s love for us than dying of old age.[/quote:zdj5kubc]

    Excellent….that is honestly something I had never dwelled on. I always assumed the crucifixion was part of the plan.

    Thanks Benedict.

    #6360

    Bernardine
    Member

    The Gospel of Judas is great, but Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John are all I need. <img src=” title=”Smile” />

    #6402

    Te Deum
    Member

    The Gospel of Judas is just old gnostic heresy relived again. Our Church Fathers, such as Irenaeus, have rightfully condemned it on the spot.

    This recent revival of gnosticism and other heresies in our popular culture is quite disturbing. But the most disturbing thing is that some catholics weak in faith (and poorly cathechized I might add) are buying this trash

    It’s becoming quite evident that there’s an urgent need to re-evangelize the Old Catholic West. The Da Vinci Code’s success is one of many clear symptoms that Christianity is sick and dying in our western secular world. <img src=” title=”Neutral” />

    #6442

    Bernardine
    Member

    The Da Vinci Code was more of an attack on the Catholic Church itself.

    Mathew 16:18 (The New American Bible)

    And so I say to you, you are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church, and [b:i3c07551]the gates of the netherworld shall not prevail against it[/b:i3c07551].

    I’m not worried.

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