January 30, 2012 at 4:05 pm #2102AnonymousInactive
Monday, January 30, 2012
[b:1hua0zo0]What does the Catholic Church teach about Islam? [/b:1hua0zo0]
Muslims need to enter the Church for salvation ( to avoid Hell). Their religion is not a path to salvation.(1).They need to enter the only Ark of Salvation (2).Catholic Faith and the baptism of water are the ordinary mean of salvation. The ordinary means of salvation is not being saved in invincible ignorance (3).Muslims need to convert for salvation.(4).Extra ecclesiam nulla salus.(5).
[b:1hua0zo0]Lumen Gentium 16[/b:1hua0zo0]
We do not know any non Catholic saved in invincible ignorance or a good conscience (Lumen Gentium 16).Neither do we know any one in the present times saved with the baptism of desire, the Word of God, in imperfect communion with the Church (Vatican Council II). We accept in principle the possibility of these persons being saved ‘in certain circumstances’ (Letter of the Holy Office 1949) however we do not know any such explicit case. So it is not an exception to the magisterial teachings quoted above. The Magisterial teaching says every one needs to convert into the Catholic Church for salvation, all need Catholic Faith and the baptism of water to avoid Hell. We know there are no known exceptions on earth. If there is any such case it would be known only to God.
Nostra Aetate, Vatican Council II no where says that non Catholic religion are paths to salvation or that non Catholics are saved in general in their religions. We accept in principle the possibility of a Muslim being saved ‘in certain circumstance’ and know that these cases would b known only to God.
So Nostra Aetate is not a contradiction of Ad Gentes 7, Vatican Council II which indicates the norm of salvation is Catholic Faith ans the baptism of water.
[b:1hua0zo0]Catechism of the Catholic Church 846[/b:1hua0zo0]
So when the Catechism of the Catholic Church 846 says all those who are saved are saved through Jesus an the Church this does not contradict the Church teaching which says all need to enter the Church with Catholic Faith and the baptism of water.
Lumen Gentium 14 says those who know about Jesus n the Church and yet do not enter cannot be saved. The religious leaders and founders of Islam, the Quran indicates, knew about Jesus and the Catholic Church He founded but chose not to enter.
Above all else, it must be firmly believed that “the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5), and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through baptism as through a door”. This doctrine must not be set against the universal salvific will of God (cf. 1 Tim 2:4); “it is necessary to keep these two truths together, namely, the real possibility of salvation in Christ for all mankind and the necessity of the Church for this salvation”.-Dominus Iesus 20
2.To reunite all his children, scattered and led astray by sin, the Father willed to call the whole of humanity together into his Son’s Church. The Church is the place where humanity must rediscover its unity and salvation. The Church is “the world reconciled.” She is that bark which “in the full sail of the Lord’s cross, by the breath of the Holy Spirit, navigates safely in this world.” According to another image dear to the Church Fathers, she is prefigured by Noah’s ark, which alone saves from the flood.-Catechism of the Catholic Chuch 845
3.Therefore, all must be converted to Him, made known by the Church’s preaching, and all must be incorporated into Him by baptism and into the Church which is His body. For Christ Himself “by stressing in express language the necessity of faith and baptism (cf. Mark 16:16; John 3:5), at the same time confirmed the necessity of the Church, into which men enter by baptism, as by a door.-A Gentes 7, Vatican Council II
4.submission to the Catholic Church and to the Sovereign Pontiff is required as necessary for salvation.-Letter of the Holy Office 1949.
[b:1hua0zo0]5. EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS (EXTRAORDINARY MODE )[/b:1hua0zo0]
• “There is but one universal Church of the faithful, outside which no one at all is saved.” (Pope Innocent III, Fourth Lateran Council, 1215.)
• “We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” (Pope Boniface VIII, the Bull Unam Sanctam, 1302.)
• “The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church.” (Pope Eugene IV, the Bull Cantate Domino, 1441.) –Catholicism.org http://catholicism.org/category/outside … -salvation
[b:1hua0zo0]EXTRA ECCLESIAM NULLA SALUS ( ORDINARY MODE )[/b:1hua0zo0]
Pope Boniface I, Epistle 14.1: “It is clear that this Roman Church is to all churches throughout the world as the head is to the members, and that whoever separates himself from it becomes an exile from the Christian religion, since he ceases to belong to its fellowship.”
Pope Pelagius II (578-590): “Consider the fact that whoever has not been in the peace and unity of the Church cannot have the Lord… Although given over to flames and fires, they burn, or, thrown to wild beasts, they lay down their lives, there will not be (for them) that crown of faith but the punishment of faithlessness… Such a one can be slain, he cannot be crowned… [If] slain outside the Church, he cannot attain the rewards of the Church” (Denzinger, 469).
Saint Gregory the Great (590-604), Moralia: “Now the holy Church universal proclaims that God cannot be truly worshipped saving within herself, asserting that all they that are without her shall never be saved.”
Pope Sylvester II, Profession of Faith, June AD 991: “I believe that in Baptism all sins are forgiven, that one which was committed originally as much as those which are voluntarily committed, and I profess that outside the Catholic Church no one is saved.”
Pope Innocent III (1198–1216), Profession of Faith prescribed for the Waldensians: “With our hearts we believe and with our lips we confess but one Church, not that of the heretics, but the Holy Roman Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside which we believe that no one is saved” (Denzinger 792).
Pope Clement VI, Letter Super Quibusdam (to Consolator the Catholicos of Armenia), September 20, 1351: “In the second place, we ask whether you and the Armenians obedient to you believe that no man of the wayfarers outside of the faith of this Church, and outside the obedience of the Pope of Rome, can finally be saved… In the ninth place, if you have believed and do believe that all who have raised themselves against the faith of the Roman Church and have died in final impenitence have been damned and have descended to the eternal punishments of hell.”
Pope Leo XII (1823–1829), Encyclical Ubi Primum: “It is impossible for the most true God, who is Truth Itself, the best, the wisest Provider, and rewarder of good men, to approve all sects who profess false teachings which are often inconsistent with one another and contradictory, and to confer eternal rewards on their members. For we have a surer word of the prophet, and in writing to you We speak wisdom among the perfect; not the wisdom of this world but the wisdom of God in a mystery. By it we are taught, and by divine faith we hold, one Lord, one faith, one baptism, and that no other name under heaven is given to men except the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth in which we must be saved. This is why we profess that there is no salvation outside the Church… For the Church is the pillar and ground of the truth. With reference to those words Augustine says: ‘If any man be outside the Church he will be excluded from the number of sons, and will not have God for Father since he has not the Church for mother.'”
Pope Gregory XVI (1831–1846), Encyclical Summo Jugiter Studio (on mixed marriages), 5-6, May 27, 1832: “You know how zealously Our predecessors taught that very article of faith which these dare to deny, namely the necessity of the Catholic faith and of unity for salvation. The words of that celebrated disciple of the Apostles, martyred Saint Ignatius, in his letter to the Philadelphians are relevant to this matter: ‘Be not deceived, my brother; if anyone follows a schismatic, he will not attain the inheritance of the kingdom of God.’ Moreover, Saint Augustine and the other African bishops who met in the Council of Cirta in the year 412 explained the same thing at greater length: ‘Whoever has separated himself from the Catholic Church, no matter how laudably he lives, will not have eternal life, but has earned the anger of God because of this one crime: that he abandoned his union with Christ’ (Epsitle 141). Omitting other appropriate passages which are almost numberless in the writings of the Fathers, We shall praise Saint Gregory the Great, who expressly testifies that this is indeed the teaching of the Catholic Church. He says: ‘The holy universal Church teaches that it is not possible to worship God truly except in her and asserts that all who are outside of her will not be saved’ (Moral. in Job, 16.5). Official acts of the Church proclaim the same dogma. Thus, in the decree on faith which Innocent III published with the synod of the Lateran IV, these things are written: ‘There is one universal Church of the faithful outside of which no one at all is saved.’ Finally, the same dogma is expressly mentioned in the profession of faith proposed by the Apostolic See, not only that which all Latin churches use (Creed of the Council of Trent), but also that which the Greek Orthodox Church uses (cf. Gregory XIII, Profession ‘Sanctissimus’) and that which other Eastern Catholics use (cf. Benedict XIV, Profession ‘Nuper ad Nos’)… We are so concerned about this serious and well known dogma, which has been attacked with such remarkable audacity, that We could not restrain Our pen from reinforcing this truth with many testimonies.”
Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Allocution Singulari Quadem, December 9, 1854: “Not without sorrow we have learned that another error, no less destructive, has taken possession of some parts of the Catholic world, and has taken up its abode in the souls of many Catholics who think that one should have good hope of the eternal salvation of all those who have never lived in the true Church of Christ. Therefore, they are wont to ask very often what will be the lot and condition of those who have not submitted in any way to the Catholic faith, and, by bringing forward most vain reasons, they make a response favorable to their false opinion. Far be it from Us, Venerable Brethren, to presume on the limits of the divine mercy which is infinite; far from Us, to wish to scrutinize the hidden counsel and “judgements of God” which are “a great abyss” (Ps. 35.7) and cannot be penetrated by human thought. But, as is Our Apostolic Duty, we wish your episcopal solicitude and vigilance to be aroused, so that you will strive as much as you can to drive form the mind of men that impious and equally fatal opinion, namely, that the way of eternal salvation can be found in any religion whatsoever. May you demonstrate with skill and learning in which you excel, to the people entrusted to your care that the dogmas of the Catholic faith are in no wise opposed to divine mercy and justice.
“For, it must be held by faith that outside the Apostolic Roman Church, no one can be saved; that this is the only ark of salvation; that he who shall not have entered therein will perish in the flood…
Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Singulari Quidem March 17, 1856): “Teach that just as there is only one God, one Christ, one Holy Spirit, so there is also only one truth which is divinely revealed. There is only one divine faith which is the beginning of salvation for mankind and the basis of all justification, the faith by which the just person lives and without which it is impossible to please God and come to the community of His children (Romans 1; Hebrews 11; Council of Trent, Session 6, Chapter ” title=”Cool” />. There is only one true, holy, Catholic Church, which is the Apostolic Roman Church. There is only one See founded on Peter by the word of the Lord (St. Cyprian, Epistle 43), outside of which we cannot find either true faith or eternal salvation. He who does not have the Church for a mother cannot have God for a father, and whoever abandons the See of Peter on which the Church is established trusts falsely that he is in the Church (ibid, On the Unity of the Catholic Church). … Outside of the Church, nobody can hope for life or salvation unless he is excused through ignorance beyond his control.”
Pope Pius IX (1846–1878), Encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863: “And here, beloved Sons and Venerable Brothers, We should mention again and censure a very grave error in which some Catholics are unhappily engaged, who believe that men living in error, and separated from the true faith and from Catholic unity, can attain eternal life. Indeed, this is certainly quite contrary to Catholic teaching.
Pope Pius IX The Syllabus of Errors, attached to Encyclical Quanta Cura, 1864: [The following are prescribed errors:] “16. Men can, in the cult of any religion, find the way of eternal salvation and attain eternal salvation. – Encyclical Qui pluribus, November 9, 1846.
“17. One ought to at least have good hope for the eternal salvation of all those who in no way dwell in the true Church of Christ. – Encyclical Quanto conficiamur moerore, August 10, 1863, etc.”
Pope St. Pius X (1903–1914), Encyclical Jucunda Sane: “It is our duty to recall to everyone great and small, as the Holy Pontiff Gregory did in ages past, the absolute necessity which is ours, to have recourse to this Church to effect our eternal salvation.”
Pope Benedict XV (1914–1922), Encyclical Ad Beatissimi Apostolorum: “Such is the nature of the Catholic faith that it does not admit of more or less, but must be held as a whole, or as a whole rejected: This is the Catholic faith, which unless a man believe faithfully and firmly, he cannot be saved.”
Pope Pius XI (1922–1939), Encyclical Mortalium Animos: “The Catholic Church alone is keeping the true worship. This is the font of truth, this is the house of faith, this is the temple of God; if any man enter not here, or if any man go forth from it, he is a stranger to the hope of life and salvation… Furthermore, in this one Church of Christ, no man can be or remain who does not accept, recognize and obey the authority and supremacy of Peter and his legitimate successors.”
Pope Pius XII (1939–1958), Allocution to the Gregorian University (17 October 1953): “By divine mandate the interpreter and guardian of the Scriptures, and the depository of Sacred Tradition living within her, the Church alone is the entrance to salvation: She alone, by herself, and under the protection and guidance of the Holy Spirit, is the source of truth.”January 31, 2012 at 1:52 am #10281About Catholics TeamKeymaster
Did you get this from another website?February 1, 2012 at 8:49 pm #10282AnonymousInactive
A review of Lionel’s postings reveals a few things.
First most postings refer you to his own Blog. Hardly an unbiased source. His Blog distorts facts, at times they are simply based on nothing but Lione’s own vivid imagination. An example being the mix of a few words of Lumen Gentium with editorialsim which I don’t think Lionel is capable of writing.
Secondly, his postings are not based on reality. Catholicism dot org is the website of one small group of former followers of the late Fr. Leonard Feeney. Fr. Feeney was taken to task by not only the Archbishop of Boston (Later Cardinal Archbishop Cushing) but the Holy Office which at that time was headed by none other than Pope Pius XII, who himself taught to the entire Church the proper interpretation of Extra Ecclesia Nulla Salus. It is a far cry from the rigorist misinterpretation of the constant teaching of the Church held by Lionel and others who proclaim themselves to know more than the Church, and judge the Church as in error for not following Fr. Feeney’s teachings. The sisters at Catholic dot org were received back into full communion with the Church under the condition that they agree that Baptism of Blood and Baptism or Desire, as well as Invincible Ignorance were valid teachings of the Church. While the Church has not formally and Dogmatically defined EENS, and the Sisters who have posted the website accept this, Lionel tries to distort the facts.
More distortions by Lionel. It would seem that he spends most of his time trolling around Catholic and Non-Catholic websites posting, being banned for refusing to follow forum rules, (Many Catholic blogs and forums do not allow the discussion of EENS because of the damage caused by Feeneyites who distort Catholic teachings and promote fights on their sites.) Lionel and others like him feel that since they have a special truth that nobody, including the Pope adheres to, they are exempt from the forum rules. Even though Lionel has been informed that groups like the Slaves in Los Angeles who were originally a mission of the sisters who own Catholics dot org when they were excommunicated, were not received into the Church with them, nor are they still a part of the now Catholic group, but the still non-canonical group in New Hampshire, he continues to disseminate and distort facts.
It would seem that for Lionel, the ends justifies the means. If he needs to disorient people by his postings which distort the facts, and play a game of slight of hand by seeming to refer to authentically Catholic documents and decrees like Lumen Gentium, but place his own spin on it, not distinguishing what is part of the authentic teaching of the Church, and what is his own rant, no real, honest discussion can take place.
Albert Einstien, who Lionel would tell us is now burning in hell because he was not a member of the Catholic Church in life, once said, “A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be.” The fact is what Lionel claims is a Dogmatic teaching of the Catholic Church is not, and what the Church authentically teaches is distorted by Lionel potentially causing the loss of souls to what the Church does in fact teach.February 2, 2012 at 3:01 am #10283About Catholics TeamKeymaster
Thanks, LARobert. Have you run into him on other sites?
I don’t think that the Catholic Church teachers that Muslims must enter the Church to avoid hell. My understanding is that they must follow their conscience if not having been exposed to the Gospel.February 2, 2012 at 7:24 am #10284AnonymousInactive
Once I saw the canned postings, I did a Google search of Lionel’s name. He pops up all over, with the same postings which as he has posted here. Some forums have banned him because he posts his distortions of the teachings of the Catholic Church and his excommunications of Popes and prelates on threads that have nothing to do with his pet pseudo dogmas. On others the subject is officially banned before he starts using up bandwidth.
What the Church does teach is that Non-Catholic religions can have some of the truth which is found in it’s fullness in the Catholic Church. As an example Muslims believe in one God, and that God is the God of Abraham. The term Allah, is an arabic word meaning God, and it was used by Arab Christians before Islam, and still used by Arab Catholics and Orthodox. The Church also teaches that false religions do not bring someone to salvation, but that we are redeemed through the Sacrifice of Jesus on the Cross. It is not their religion that dispenses that salvation but the Catholic Church which was founded by Christ which is the means that those graces are dispensed to all persons here on earth. Now we must remember the graces come from Christ, and through the Church, as Christ intended.
As to the redemption of the Unbeliever…. Pope Pius IX and Pope Pius XII were the two Popes who wrote most prolifically about the subject. Pope Pius XII explained that the normal manner we enter into the Church is through baptism by water. There are those who have learned the Truths of the Faith who have not been baptized and are martyred for the Faith, (Baptism of Blood) Others who die before they can be baptized. (Baptism of Desire) they too are members of the Catholic Church. There are Catholic saints who never recieved water baptism but were incorporated into the Church by the Baptism of Blood. The Holy Innocents (male babies killed by Herod when he was trying to kill the Infant Jesus) are considered saints by the Church, as just one example.
Pope Pius XII also taught that there are those who through no fault of their own have either never heard of the Teachings of Christ and His Church, or have been so tainted by falshoods they have learned about the Catholic Church that they will not listen to reason, or believe the truth. God will judge them based on natural law. While the standards they are held to are not in many ways as rigorous as those we as Catholics are held to, (ie they do not have the obligation to assist at Mass on Sundays and Holy Days) they do have to obligation to worship God as they understand Him. Now once again, it is very important to stress that the salvation afforded to those who do not have the opportunity to learn the truth is still based on the sacrifice of Christ, and the graces God dispenses through His Church,which is why we as Catholics have the obligation to preach the Truth not only through sharing the teachings of Christ and His Church, but through our examples of Charity and Holiness. This Pope Pius XII and others have referred to as Invincible Ignorance, because someone is ignorant of what the Church teaches through no fault of their own.
Now Lionel and those who follow Fr. Feeney’s teachings will tell you that the Church dogmatically teaches that you must be a member of the Roman Catholic Church, through water baptism to be saved. Even when they admit that Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood are Catholic teachings, they do as Lionel does, and say that we cannot know of anyone who was saved through those means, so they discount it as never used, which is a form of dispair of God’s mercy.
The Church does not say that everyone will be saved, or that someone who has never heard of the teachings of the Church will be saved because they never had the chance to hear the message of Christ, after all it is not a free ticket, but simply God in his Mercy has made provisions for those who have not heard the truth. He will deal with them according to their capacity, and actions. Again I must stress, the graces to live a good life, and follow natural law come to them from Christ and the Church, not from their pagan, or Islamic beliefs.
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