The Catholic view of salvation…..

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This topic contains 17 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  James 5 years ago.

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  • #563

    does not differ from most mainline protestant denominations in these respects……
    1) That is a gift from God
    2) That it is accomplished by Christ’s death
    3) That there is nothing we can do to be worthy of salvation.

    The main difference, in a nutshell, is that salvation is a [b:3nnqtlep]process[/b:3nnqtlep] and not simply an [b:3nnqtlep]act[/b:3nnqtlep].

    #2176

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    Yes, cheers John!

    The biggest thing about interreligious dialogue is focusing on our similarities more than or before our differences so that we may be reconciled and not further divided.

    #2196

    True…to an extent.
    Sometimes, however, you must “make a defense”.
    In those cases, it is proper to annunciate the differences in order that the catholic position be adequetly defended.

    #2231

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    Oh, of course, I absolutely agree with you. <img src=” title=”Very Happy” />

    I was just replying in agreement with your intial statement on the similarities of the 2 views of salvation.

    It is really interesting on the variance on positions of similar beliefs between Catholics and Evangelical/Fundamentalist Protestants due to the different views on salvation. After looking at many of the beliefs and comparing why we disagree, it seems that many have to do with how we view salvation – it’s kind of weird.

    Anyway, that’s my 2 cents.

    #9898

    Papa.Cod
    Member
    "SonlitKnight37":330n875a wrote:
    True…to an extent.
    Sometimes, however, you must “make a defense”.
    In those cases, it is proper to annunciate the differences in order that the catholic position be adequetly defended.[/quote:330n875a]
    What’s this supposed to mean?

    "Jon":330n875a wrote:
    It is really interesting on the variance on positions of similar beliefs between Catholics and Evangelical/Fundamentalist Protestants due to the different views on salvation. After looking at many of the beliefs and comparing why we disagree, it seems that many have to do with how we view salvation – it’s kind of weird.[/quote:330n875a]
    I’m pretty sure that there must be other disagreements than salvation
    #9902

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    I can’t believe you dug up a thread from 7 years ago…

    "Papa.Cod":2z7yaaae wrote:
    "SonlitKnight37":2z7yaaae wrote:
    True…to an extent.
    Sometimes, however, you must “make a defense”.
    In those cases, it is proper to annunciate the differences in order that the catholic position be adequetly defended.[/quote:2z7yaaae]
    What’s this supposed to mean?[/quote:2z7yaaae]
    I think he’s saying that in order to discuss differences between faith traditions one must highlight them.

    "Papa.Cod":2z7yaaae wrote:
    "Jon":2z7yaaae wrote:
    It is really interesting on the variance on positions of similar beliefs between Catholics and Evangelical/Fundamentalist Protestants due to the different views on salvation. After looking at many of the beliefs and comparing why we disagree, it seems that many have to do with how we view salvation – it’s kind of weird.[/quote:2z7yaaae]
    I’m pretty sure that there must be other disagreements than salvation[/quote:2z7yaaae]
    Again, this was 7 years ago, but yes there are other disagreements. A big difference is the Evangelical misinterpretation of the process of salvation.
    #9904

    LARobert
    Participant
    "SonlitKnight37":3j1yo3wu wrote:
    does not differ from most mainline protestant denominations in these respects……
    1) That is a gift from God
    2) That it is accomplished by Christ’s death
    3) That there is nothing we can do to be worthy of salvation.

    The main difference, in a nutshell, is that salvation is a [b:3j1yo3wu]process[/b:3j1yo3wu] and not simply an [b:3j1yo3wu]act[/b:3j1yo3wu].[/quote:3j1yo3wu]
    Well the problems are many. You can’t lump all Protestants into the same mold. They teach a wide variety of doctrines. There are those who take one verse from scripture and build an entire theology from it. They believe in Absolute Predestination, these follow the “Orthodox Calvinist” or “Orthodox Presbyterian” camp. According to them there are those that God has already saved (the elect) and already damned. The Elect will find it totally compelling to be Christians, and the damned will be either non-religious or join a church but not be fully Chrisitan. You can tell the elect because they will be properous, and the damned will have illness and poverty as their lot in life.

    Other Protestants say that Once you say “Jesus is my Lord and Savior, I accept Him alone” you are saved, going to heaven, and nothing can undo that. These Once Saved, always saved people, also seem to be able to look at someone and tell you that their conversion was or was not real. If someone they like “backslides” or lives a sinful life after accepting Jesus, they are either “saved anyway by Jesus” or “never really accepted Jesus” and are damned. I knew a guy who was raised Baptist, “got saved” at 13, and then went on to live a homosexual lifestyle. His old pastor said that he knew his family, and they were a good churchgoing family that tithed, so the guy was always saved. Another member of the congregation who had a similar story the family brought him into their home when he was diagnosed with AIDS. The Church shunned the family and the pastor said that all of them made an false acceptance of Christ and were not saved.

    There are any number of theories among Protestants that vary between the two.

    Can the Catholic position be supported? We do believe God is the author of salvation. It is a free Gift, and it is by the Passion, Death, and Rising from the dead of Jesus, nothing we do on our own makes us worthy for salvation. But is the rest of the Catholic position (which differs from most Protestants) rally true.

    Biblically we see that Jesus does say say to those who He healed, that their faith had saved them. He told the thief on the cross, who recognized Jesus for who he was that he was assured of heaven. But Jesus and the Apostles also lay down other conditions, baptism, (which many Protestants deny has anything to do with salvation, but is just a ceremony to express our commitment, and not a rite that God uses to change us) and contiuing to live a life of holiness, we see Jesus giving the Apostles the authority to forgive sins. St. Paul tells us about “running the good race”. St. James about how Faith without Works is useless. Most importantly when we read the New Testament in the original Greek the word used for salvation is not a finished or completed salvation but as Jon mentioned a transitional verb, something not yet completed on our part, something we are in the process of doing, or participating in.

    #9907

    Papa.Cod
    Member
    "Jon":3uo7zs1h wrote:
    I can’t believe you dug up a thread from 7 years ago..[/quote:3uo7zs1h]
    Is that a bad thing?

    "LARobert":3uo7zs1h wrote:
    But Jesus and the Apostles also lay down other conditions, baptism, (which many Protestants deny has anything to do with salvation, but is just a ceremony to express our commitment, and not a rite that God uses to change us)[/quote:3uo7zs1h]
    What are the main protestant churches that believe this?

    "LARobert":3uo7zs1h wrote:
    when we read the New Testament in the original Greek the word used for salvation is not a finished or completed salvation[/quote:3uo7zs1h]
    WHat would be the greek word and were would you find it?
    #9916

    LARobert
    Participant

    I’ll pull out my Lexicon, too important for me to just try and remember the word and tense off the top of my head.

    #9958

    James
    Member
    "LARobert":be7vuymm wrote:
    I’ll pull out my Lexicon, too important for me to just try and remember the word and tense off the top of my head.[/quote:be7vuymm]
    What is a Lexicon? What exactly is its purpose?
    #9960
    "James":vbr3jjru wrote:
    "LARobert":vbr3jjru wrote:
    I’ll pull out my Lexicon, too important for me to just try and remember the word and tense off the top of my head.[/quote:vbr3jjru]
    What is a Lexicon? What exactly is its purpose?[/quote:vbr3jjru]
    i think lexicon is a greek dialect
    #9963

    LARobert
    Participant

    A Lexicon is similar to a Greek-other language dictionary, although it usually deals with the languages of the Scriptures, (Greek Aramaic Syrica and Hebrew) and the modern language, (English, Spanish, Modern Greek etc.) and not general topics.

    Both Catholics and Protestants have written Lexicons. An example of some of the differences would be, Prebyteros would be translated in a Catholic Lexicon as meaning Elder and priest. Most Protestant Lexicons will leave out priest because they don’t accept that the priests in the Early Church existed and were invented by the Catholic Church at a later date.

    #9964

    James
    Member

    Are Lexicons electronic or are they be a Language-to-language dictionary?

    #9973

    Papa.Cod
    Member

    HA!!! Theyre nothin but trouble! They dont translate right!!!! MAybe you people need to actually take some classes in classical greek….maybe you can learn a few things about what Paul means by SAVED BY GRACE!!! Modern technology aint got nothing on the old stuff!!!!

    #9974

    LARobert
    Participant
    "James":1zga2vvx wrote:
    Are Lexicons electronic or are they be a Language-to-language dictionary?[/quote:1zga2vvx]
    You can find them online, as well as in print. Here is a link to an online Protestant Lexicon… [url:1zga2vvx]http://www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/nas/[/url:1zga2vvx] I’ll look for an online Catholic Lexicon, and my paper copy.
    #9989

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster
    "Papa.Cod":1out6n1t wrote:
    HA!!! Theyre nothin but trouble! They dont translate right!!!! MAybe you people need to actually take some classes in classical greek….maybe you can learn a few things about what Paul means by SAVED BY GRACE!!! Modern technology aint got nothing on the old stuff!!!![/quote:1out6n1t]
    When I read your posts I can only draw one conclusion – you don’t know what you’re talking about at least 75% of the time and you attempt to make up for that deficiency by spouting off inane (not a typo) things as a way to exert power and keep yourself in a conversation that is above your head. What you don’t realize is that this tactic only serves to further distance other people from you as we can all see you have no real dialogical skills. I challenge you NOT to post smart ass comments impulsively and actually attempt to engage politely in threads here. It’s ok to disagree, but it’s not ok to act like a fool because you disagree or don’t understand.

    With that said, I took 4 progressively challenging ancient Greek classes in college as a requirement for my Religious Studies degree. A lexicon isn’t “modern technology” but rather an aid to understand the language (and it’s a book, far from modern). I do not agree that someone would be able to take a lexicon and translate the Scriptures; it’s not as simple as a Spanish-English dictionary. That would take far more training in the Greek language, especially if one has not studied a language with similar syntax such as Latin or German. Even if you know another romance language, it does not mean you know Latin syntax enough to know Greek syntax.

    #9991

    LARobert
    Participant

    Jon, very good points, which this time I missed. We do have to look into the context and timeframe, culture of the times etc. Not just a simply Lexicon, or Dictionary for insight into the Scriptures. Otherwise we end up like the KJV only folks who interpret something they don’t understand according to what they have been told it says, leaving no room for the Holy Spirit.

    #9992

    James
    Member
    "Jon":1xzpkjki wrote:
    That would take far more training in the Greek language, especially if one has not studied a language with similar syntax such as Latin or German. Even if you know another romance language, it does not mean you know Latin syntax enough to know Greek syntax.[/quote:1xzpkjki]
    I thought German is a germanic language and not so much as a romance language? Or were you saying that it would be hard to understand Greek syntax if you didn’t know how Latin or German syntaxes worked?
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