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Mr. LARoberts
you said:[quote:380arb6s]
If we pray for them, and live a life that preaches Christ by our actions, not simply our words. [/quote:380arb6s]and
[quote:380arb6s] Most people don’t know what they claim holds to be true[/quote:380arb6s]
I can only show you what Jesus said to those who you imitate:
[color=red:380arb6s]
For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in.27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside
are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness [/color:380arb6s](Matthew 23:13,27,28)No hatred here, just stating the real situation as it shows!
[quote:1m7xlihq]Most people don’t know what they claim holds to be true[/quote:1m7xlihq]
Good thing I don’t claim to be infallible, or have all the answers, while turning people away from Christ by yelling at them, and puffing myself up with pride, just a simple steward of the Lord here, passing on what has been taught since Jesus founded the Church on Peter in 33 AD…. Thanks for pointing out a line that is obtuse.
[quote:1m7xlihq]It should read…[/quote:1m7xlihq]
Most people claim to hold to a creed, and don’t know what that creed holds to be true.
[quote:1m7xlihq]I’ll add to the posting, [/quote:1m7xlihq]
It is one thing to simplify the message of Christ so that it can be understood in a manner that does not require a theology degree, quite another to ignore most of the message, elimiating that which we find distasteful, and give a distorted dishonest message of Christ’s love turning it into a legalistic rendition of the 16-18th Century Protestant story of how Jesus lied and left the world abandoned until they unlocked the key to salvation through Private Interpretation and modification of the Bible.
As for me I’ll stick with the Jesus we know from history, and the unchanging teachings handed down from Him to the Apostles in turn to their successors, and held today by the same Church, (Catholic Church). For we all know that the devil knows and can quote scripture to his own evil devices. We know the devil is fully aware of who Jesus was, and would rather the multiple false teachings about Jesus that Protestant theologians are constantly formulating be presented rather than the Authentic Jesus, who’s message has not changed over two millenia, and remains intact in the teachings He gave to the Catholic Church to guard and disseminate.
LARoberts said,
[quote:57mj6axh]
It is one thing to simplify the message of Christ so that it can be understood in a manner that does not require a theology degree, quite another to ignore most of the message[/quote:57mj6axh]I’ve tried to do that with my articles, to simplify and explain jst what IT says as opposed to what yoiur Church claims it says. When I’m told that I’m wrong, no one shows me such as when you say it is not the Bible alone, I ask what else carries the authoritiveness as God’s word, for it is from God, but you don’t come up with anything. You say my articles contradict themselves, so I say “where and how” but no one does that either, so how do you figure that I’m one who
[quote:57mj6axh] while turning people away from Christ by yelling at them, and puffing myself up with pride,[/quote:57mj6axh]
or
[quote:57mj6axh]give a distorted dishonest message of Christ’s love [/quote:57mj6axh]
?
RonK,
The problem is that you are not using the Bible alone. You may quote verses but you quote them according to your teaching tradition.
In other words, you see the Bible according to your denomination’s eyes.
By the way, what is your denomination?
[quote:1tipyml5]you see the Bible according to your denomination’s eyes.
By the way, what is your denomination?[/quote:1tipyml5]
If I’m wrong, I’d admit it, but you haven’t shown me any place that I’ve
error on. I’m non-denominational, not that I have any secrets, but if I said what denomination I was, the focus would no longer be on “is Catholicism the church of Jesus” and we’d get no where. I’ve spoken up in the past and that is what happens.
[color=darkblue:33yxbyeu]This is my experience with a non-denominational church in Eastlake Chula Vista, CA back in 2003. I might have already shared this with you all so please forgive me if I am repeating myself. Of course this is before I came back to the Catholic Church. My wife and I walk up to the main entrance, and there is a gauntlet of church staff on both sides of the sidewalk with stickers. The stickers read, “Hi, my name is;” and they would ask for our names, write it down on the sticker, and slap it on our chest. We both walk into this huge foyer area with a coffee shop and apparel shop to the right. They even had a little snack restaurant where you could order breakfast and take it easy for while. When we proceeded deeper inside, we got to sit down. On both sides of the wall, were huge projection screens and the theme for the worship service was, “What would Simon say?”(the American Idol guy). We also had brochures for that worship service and Simon was all over it on every page. Did not see one cross or one image of Jesus anywhere the entire time during the service! The pastor was giving his sermon from the top of his head with his subjective views on scripture, all the while making references to Simon Cowell. He didn’t even read out of the Bible, not once. The pastor was wearing some baggy khaki pants and a Hawaiian shirt. The band played great music, and a lot of it I might add. If I wanted to hear a lot of music(about 35 minutes worth), I would have sat in my car in the parking lot listening to the KLOVE Christian station. The service went on for and hour. About 35 minutes of the band playing, 15 minutes of preaching about scripture in relation to Simon, and about 10 minutes of video on the jumbotrons that played video on Simon’s remarks in comparison to remarks made by Jesus. No Communion service. Lets just all go home and watch American Idol and be glad we are not like Simon. [/color:33yxbyeu]
Now notice what just happened in your last post:
1) “I’m non-denominational”
2) “not that I have any secrets, but if I said what denomination I was…”
You contradicted yourself. In doing this you made yourself “wrong”.
Now it will be interesting to see that if in Ron’s World is Ron really wrong if he proves himself wrong, or are we really wrong to prove that Ron is wrong.
This forum is About Catholics, and I’m sure that you have noticed there are items important to Catholics, prayer, and non Catholic topics. People here are pretty sure “that Catholicism is the church of Jesus”.
You also said;
“not that I have any secrets”
You are hiding, is that what you want people to see? Does this show integrity and courage or is hiding more like;
Like you said St.James
[quote:39qe8brn]”This forum is About Catholics”[/quote:39qe8brn]
I’ve already told you why I won’t say the church I go to
[quote:39qe8brn]the focus would no longer be on “is Catholicism the church of Jesus” and we’d get no where. I’ve spoken up in the past and that is what happens.[/quote:39qe8brn]
Nice try but lets keep on the subject – is or isn’t your church, the one so many think is right, Christ’s church or not!
And I biblically think – no it isn’t close to being the true church as they claim it to be!
Ronk,
You prove my point again. I guess in Ron’s World you don’t even discuss the possibility of being wrong.
Ron, are you nondenominational or are you part of a particular denomination?
You do realize that you contradicted yourself, or did you intentionally try to mislead us?
Ron, this is an issue of integrity and character.
Why do you hide in the shadows?
Good try, but lets stay on the subject.
Bernardine,
I attended a similar church. It was a seeker church affiliated with Willow Creek Church Association.
Some services I remember:
1) a service where Jesus’ name wasn’t mentioned once.
2) communion served but the elements (crackers) left unattended by the exit.
3) a sermon on knowing the Father through the Bible without mentioning through His Son.
Prayer always starts with “God” and ends “in Your Name Amen.” ( though I must say the head pastor would close the prayer in “Jesus Name”).
In other words the Trinity is not mentioned. The Father is not addressed at the beginning and Jesus is not mention at the end.
It is the “dumbing down” of Christianity. The Sunday service is focused on the non Christian. Theological terms that are confusing are avoided. Do not address the Father, folks may have baggage with their own father.
It is amazing , but this church has an attendance of around 6,000 people.
The music does “kick”. Sometimes I wondered would they come if the music didn’t “kick”?
But I do see the spiritual hunger that is out there. I firmly believe that if a movement of God will happen, it will happen through the Catholic church,
That is one of the reasons regarding the “Crisis” of abuse by some of the priesthood.Judgment does begin at the house of God. I believe that Christ is cleansing, preparing His church for the task of evangelization and discipleship.
May we be used by His nailed scarred hand to present the Word of God, the Son made man, the Light of the world to a lost and dying humanity
Both “Churches” seem to me to be the logical conclusion of the Protestant Private Interpretation dogma. Like toothpaste that has been squeezed out of the tube, letting everyone become the judge of what the Bible means, and seek out Jesus and the meaning of the Bible on their own terms, based on how the Spirit Moves them, rather than putting the Bible where it should be as a tool given us by God, interpredted within the proper context, rather than just tossed out for anyone to interpret because they say “I’m a believer” The same goes for the premise that only the books that where edited down to the KJV and other translations that follow it’s lead. Bereft of historical context, and punting what we know the early Church held from the Fathers because it may say something we don’t want it to say about what the Church taught or ideas that where supressed by the Church, because they may be the same heretical errors we want to hold, Sola Scriptura is not a valid use of the Bible, but rather a hijacking of the Bible. Bp. Spong of the Episcopal Church, (feels odd to use him as an example as it is questionable that he even holds any orthodox Christan points of view.) wrote a book called Rescuing the Bible from the Fundimentalists. I cannot really comment, as I never read the book, but I bring it up because the title holds true. Sola Scriptura combined with Private interpretation, and a false sense of what the priesthood of all believers is in essence a hijacking of the Bible and the Faith. As even the devil can quote Scripture, Sola Scriptura leads to conflicting interpretations, which may not worry the Individual who says he holds to it, because they are usaually also sidetracked by trying to prove everyone else wrong and their interpretation as the only correct one, but it makes God and His word into a lie, because it is the source of confusion and heretical ideas that boil over into new sects taking people farther away from what Christ taught and the Church has safeguarded for two thousand years.
I could of course be wrong. God could have wanted everyone to have their own private religion and contradict each other, beleiveing anything that they imagined the Bible said without any understanding of what was believed by the Early Church… God could be the God of confusion, and I just have not been inspired to understand that yet.
I’ve found that you can derive more pleasure out of hitting your head with a rock than with trying to show the authentic teachings of Christ to someone who claims Sola Scriptura, and in the case of our resident basher feels that God has given him the charism to have the only correct interpretation of the Bible, which he either studied on his own as he claims, (a claim I find unbelievable as his writings are a mishmash of other anti-catholic writers, including sometimes word order and vocabulary that seems distant from when he writes his own bio, or posts here.) So I’ll just have to add to the Bible, and follow what our Lord says about “Shaking the dust from my sandles” but being a Catholic I have to “add to the Bible” and let everyone know that I promised to pray for his reversion to the Truth, and while it does not tell us to continue praying for those who reject the message, I’m going to add that to the teaching of Sola.
LARobert,
“I’ve found that you can derive more pleasure out of hitting your head with a rock than with trying to show the authentic teachings of Christ to someone who claims Sola Scriptura…”
Interesting choice. Now I would rather run full sprint into a brick wall, and do it serveral times over.
I think the frustration for me that it is so obvious that each Protestant denomination looks at the Bible through their own denomination’s eyes or their denomination’s teaching tradition if you will.
Now in our resident bashers case I think it is more. Being a former Catholic and choosing his secret denomination he is affirming his choice by hating the former. It’s like hating your old wife to justify the new.
But nothing is impossible with God. May Jesus draw a harvest of bashers to finally come Home.
[quote:1rhgtha0]
But nothing is impossible with God. May Jesus draw a harvest of bashers to finally come Home.[/quote:1rhgtha0][color=darkblue:1rhgtha0]Alleluia! Praise Jesus![/color:1rhgtha0]
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