Romans 3:1

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This topic contains 8 replies, has 3 voices, and was last updated by  Andres Ortiz 11 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #842

    Buzzard
    Member

    [color=blue:swweilos][b:swweilos]Doctrines, Beliefs, Practices & Saints[/b:swweilos]
    Where did the catholics get more books than other christian[/color:swweilos]

    http://www.aboutcatholics.com/community … light=#663

    [quote:swweilos]

    Why does your friend reference Jewish sources for the canon of Scripture when the Christian Church, the pillar and foundation of truth, already existed? This same Church used the Deuterocanonical books and officially affirmed their inspiration in the 4th century.[/quote:swweilos]
    Maybe because Paul wrote [b:swweilos][color=red:swweilos]Speciffically[/color:swweilos][/b:swweilos] to the Roman Church

    I know most of you have not read something of this sort before,
    but give it some thought

    [quote:swweilos]~{Romans 3:1}~
    <img src=:” title=”Question” />
    Paul asks the Roman Church <img src=:” title=”Question” />
    [color=blue:swweilos][i:swweilos][b:swweilos][u:swweilos]What advantage[/u:swweilos][/b:swweilos] then hath the Jew[/i:swweilos][/color:swweilos]??????
    [color=blue:swweilos][i:swweilos]or [b:swweilos][u:swweilos]what profit[/u:swweilos][/b:swweilos] is there of circumcision[/i:swweilos][/color:swweilos]??????

    Here Paul speciffically refers to those of the Circumcision,
    or the physcial Jew

    [color=blue:swweilos][i:swweilos][b:swweilos][u:swweilos]What advantage[/u:swweilos][/b:swweilos] then hath the Jew[/i:swweilos][/color:swweilos]??????
    [color=blue:swweilos][i:swweilos]or [b:swweilos][u:swweilos]what profit[/u:swweilos][/b:swweilos] is there of circumcision[/i:swweilos][/color:swweilos]??????
    Now Paul answers his own question[i:swweilos]Much every way: [b:swweilos][u:swweilos][color=red:swweilos]chiefly[/color:swweilos][/u:swweilos][/b:swweilos],
    because that [b:swweilos][u:swweilos][color=red:swweilos]unto them[/color:swweilos][/u:swweilos][/b:swweilos] were committed the oracles of God.[/i:swweilos]

    Paul says that the Physcial Jew or those of the Circumsision,
    have “the Advantage” over the Gentile Church,
    and the chief reason is
    [i:swweilos]because that [b:swweilos][u:swweilos][color=red:swweilos]unto them[/i:swweilos][/color:swweilos][/u:swweilos][/b:swweilos]
    —{the Physcial Seed of Abraham}—-
    [i:swweilos]were committed the oracles of God[/i:swweilos].
    Paul is [b:swweilos]Speciffic[/b:swweilos] on “[b:swweilos]Who[/b:swweilos]” he speaks of,
    for he refers to them as “[b:swweilos]The Circumsision[/b:swweilos]”
    this can only be the Physcial Nation “Israel”

    Now the Obvious Objection the Roman church would Voice is
    The unbeleif of the Jews
    —-[b:swweilos][u:swweilos]Paul continues[/u:swweilos][/b:swweilos]—-

    <img src=:” title=”Question” />
    3 [i:swweilos][color=blue:swweilos]For what if some did not believe[/color:swweilos][/i:swweilos]???????
    Now Paul asks the Roman Church :rolleyes:
    [i:swweilos][color=blue:swweilos]shall [b:swweilos][u:swweilos]their unbelief[/u:swweilos][/b:swweilos]” make the faith of God without effect[/color:swweilos][/i:swweilos]??????
    [i:swweilos]The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.[/i:swweilos][/quote:swweilos]

    let me put this in my own words

    [quote:swweilos][color=blue:swweilos]What advantage or Profit is there for the Physcial Nation Israel over the Gentile Church[/color:swweilos] ????????
    because even in their unbeleif and hardheadedness, God was still faithful
    to his promise to Abraham, and unto them where committed the keeping,
    preserving, and Cannonizing the writtings of Moses and the Prophets

    The Oracles of God; according to [b:swweilos]Paul[/b:swweilos] were committed to
    the “Keeping” of the Jews, not to the Gentiles,
    The Cannon of Moses and the Prophets was set in 90 AD+/-
    by the Pharisees at Jamica,
    I think it is called the Masoritic Text
    just at the same time God was finishing the New
    and the letters to the different Churches written by John
    in the Book of Revelation;

    Rome; nor any Protestant church has the authority to determine
    what is or what isn’t the Canon of the Old Testament,
    God didn’t give The Gentile Church any voice in the matter
    We should just accept it, as the Jews preserved it

    Now we have a completed Book
    We are to take the Oracles of God as set by the Jews,
    apply the Apostolic understanding to it,
    as outlined in the New Testament
    and take the gospel to the world
    and as John said
    We are not to “[b:swweilos]add too[/b:swweilos]” nor “[b:swweilos]take away[/b:swweilos]” from it[/quote:swweilos]

    God Bless Your [i:swweilos]Bible[/i:swweilos] Studies;
    drazzuB

    #2943

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    Welcome Buzzard!

    So, are you saying that the Jews that came after the Christian church was well established have the authority to say what the Christian scriptures should be?

    To me, the passage is saying Paul is showing that in spite of special revelation Jews enjoy no advantage in moral status before God. I would alost say that Paul is referring to whatever Jewish contributions that have been made, not ones 30-50 years after Paul wrote to the Romans.

    That is an interesting interpretation though. <img src=” title=”Smile” />

    #2944

    Benedict
    Member

    Welcome from FCFC, Buzzard. I see your spelling has not yet improved, but then, this board does not have a spell-checker.

    It is interesting to note how often the Septuagint is quoted in the New Testament by the inspired writers yet the Jews at Jamnia did not approve the Septuagint canon. In fact, they specifically rejected the New Testament writings, among other Christian letters, in defining the Hebrew canon. On this matter, I have to go with the Holy Spirit and trust the Septuagint canon. It was good enough for Him to quote and for Jesus to use.

    #2945

    Buzzard
    Member

    Naghhhhh;
    Paul wrote to the Roman Church 30+/- years
    [b:3twz2g6z][color=red:3twz2g6z]After Pentacost[/color:3twz2g6z][/b:3twz2g6z],
    or the Start of the 1st Day Church

    The canon, of the what we call the “Old Testament”
    wellll if you had read what I posted you would have known he was;
    refering to what we call the Old Testament
    [quote:3twz2g6z]
    The Oracles of God; according to [b:3twz2g6z]Paul[/b:3twz2g6z] were committed to
    the “Keeping” of the Jews, not to the Gentiles,
    The Cannon of Moses and the Prophets was set in 90 AD+/-
    by the Pharisees at Jamica,
    I think it is called the Masoritic Text
    just at the same time God was finishing the New
    and the letters to the different Churches written by John
    in the Book of Revelation;

    Rome; nor any Protestant church has the authority to determine
    what is or what isn’t [color=red:3twz2g6z]the Canon of the Old Testament[/color:3twz2g6z],
    God didn’t give The Gentile Church any voice in the matter
    We should just accept it, as the Jews preserved it[/quote:3twz2g6z]

    The Gospels, and the different letters to the Churches
    were written to the Church, made up of both Jew and Gentile;
    these were committed to the Church

    we should just accept what God has done
    and those he used to do it thru,

    Now don’t forget;
    Christ did say this to;
    not only the Multiutude, but also to his Disciples,
    of which the Apostles were part of,
    and these words, recorded by Matthew
    were spoken as part of the last time he spoke publicially,
    to the multitude and the disciples,
    ~{Matt.23:1}~
    Then spake Jesus to the multitude,
    [b:3twz2g6z]and[/b:3twz2g6z]
    to [b:3twz2g6z][color=green:3twz2g6z]his disciples[/color:3twz2g6z][/b:3twz2g6z],
    2 Saying,
    The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat:
    3 All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe,
    that observe and do; but [b:3twz2g6z][u:3twz2g6z][color=red:3twz2g6z]do not ye[/color:3twz2g6z][/u:3twz2g6z][/b:3twz2g6z] after their works:
    for they say, and do not.
    4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne


    ect. – ect. – ect.[i:3twz2g6z]The King James Version, (Cambridge: Cambridge) 1769.[/i:3twz2g6z]

    The Canon of Moses and the Prophets was set in 90 AD+/-
    by the Pharisees at Jamica,

    I think we should just accept it

    I do find it interesting that Paul wrote that to the church
    that would eventually take it upon themselves to determine what was to be “the Scriptures”

    #2947

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    Ok, before I go on a tirade I need a question answered. How long after Jesus’ death was Pentecost?

    This will help illustrate a point I am trying to make.

    #2948

    Buzzard
    Member

    Ok;
    50 Days = Pentecost

    Just keep in mind,
    Paul wrote Romans 30 +/- years after the death,
    burial, and resurection of Christ, and [i:s3gh135d]”that Pentecost[/i:s3gh135d]

    #2949

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    Ok, so what I am trying to emphasize is that Jesus died circa 30 AD, Paul wrote 30+/- years post Jesus’ death (60 AD) and the Jews set their canon 90 AD.

    My point is that Paul in his letter to the Romans is not referring to an action the Jews would do 30 years later. The Christian church had already been established for roughly [b:2hgfxgnj]60 years[/b:2hgfxgnj] before the Jews set their canon. I think it is fair to say that by that time the laws the Jews made were not binding on Christians hence [b:2hgfxgnj]it does not matter what[/b:2hgfxgnj] books [b:2hgfxgnj]they say[/b:2hgfxgnj] comprise our Old Testament.

    In short, I am saying you are stretching the passage in Romans a bit too far to “disprove” the use of the deuterocanonical books (which is what I am assuming you are trying to do).

    The Christians were using the Greek versions of the text (Septuagint) when Paul wrote his letters and by the time the Jews settled upon the Masoritic texts.

    #2954

    Benedict
    Member

    That was part of my point as well.

    #2962

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    Sooo…what’s up Buzz? No response? What happened? :what:

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