June 4, 2005 at 3:25 pm #1085
[color=green:314925fj] “In the Church the atmosphere becomes cramped and stifling when her officebearers forget that the sacrament is, not an allocation of power, but dispossession of myself for the sake of the one in whose “persona” I am to speak and act. But when ever-greater self-dispossession matches ever-greater responsibility, no one is the servant of another; there the Lord rules, and there it proves true that; “The Lord is the Spirit. But where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom” (2 Cor 3:17). The more administrative machinery we construct, be it the most modern, the less place there is for the Spirit, the less place there is for the Lord, and the less freedom there is.
It is my opinion that we ought to begin an usparing examination of conscience on this point at all levels in the Church. On every level this would have to have very real consequences and would be bound to bring about an ablatio [i:314925fj](reference to removing stone from “on top” of a sculpture)[/i:314925fj] that would allow the true inherent form to reemerge and could restore to us in a wholly new way the feeling of freedom and of being at home.”[/color:314925fj]
A respected Catholic theologian wrote this in 1991.
Thoughts, comments?June 4, 2005 at 4:28 pm #4951
I am not quite sure I understand it…June 4, 2005 at 6:11 pm #4953
[quote:1a7xxve2]I am not quite sure I understand it…[/quote:1a7xxve2]
Errr…. sorry… I didn’t think it was too complex.
Maybe some other members can comment.June 5, 2005 at 3:46 am #4954
If I understand correctly, the author feels that some men in the church forget why they are there and dwell on the authority that was vested to them rather then exercising the freedoms that were given to the lambs. This creates a sorta dictator type of enviroment with the local priests not accepting corrections from the members of the Body. Even if they are true.
Did I understand correctly?
I will await your response and then continue.
PS-You catch me on the other forum?June 5, 2005 at 4:21 am #4955
[quote:39gnbpas]Did I understand correctly?[/quote:39gnbpas]
On the money… in my opinon.
[quote:39gnbpas]PS-You catch me on the other forum?[/quote:39gnbpas]
Heck yes! Great to have you…. get POSTING!
ScottJune 5, 2005 at 3:34 pm #4956
Ah yes, now I get it… My initial problem was that I had never encountered anything like that so it did not cross my mind.
I have never had a priest who was too control oriented.June 5, 2005 at 3:48 pm #4957
[quote:2s0fnuqd]I have never had a priest who was too control oriented.[/quote:2s0fnuqd]
Well, actually, you have….. ” title=”Wink” />
The quote is from the book [u:2s0fnuqd]Called to Communion[/u:2s0fnuqd]
…. by (then) Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger. ” title=”Very Happy” />
It is an amazing read…. I can’t even put it into words.
The book is described as a “primer of Catholic ecclesiology”, but is so much more.
Keep in mind…. I’m a reader…. you name it, I’ve probably read it if it relates to the Catholic faith….
…. and this book spoke to me in a way that no other work has EVER done.
I can’t describe it…. you’ve all just gotta go read this book….. for the most part it is written in the style of an apologetic work, so most of you should really love it.
God Bless our Holy Father!
ScottJune 5, 2005 at 8:17 pm #4958
Huh? I have? *Is once AGAIN confused*
Anyway, I will check out that book.June 6, 2005 at 1:23 am #4959
[quote:1yum0ydc]Huh? I have? *Is once AGAIN confused*
Anyway, I will check out that book.[/quote:1yum0ydc]
As a Cardinal and now our Holy Father, he is your priest, is he not?
Get it now? ” title=”Wink” />June 6, 2005 at 3:44 pm #4960
Well that is what I thought at first, but was he saying that he [i:2yvhqdec]personally[/i:2yvhqdec] had acted in that manner? I did not get that impression, maybe I am wrong. I usually am. lol
And yes, he is definitely my priest now.June 6, 2005 at 5:30 pm #4962
Scott, I have experienced what the author speaks of. Although it did bother me I think it was a combination of me [i:3915qmry]not wanting to submit[/i:3915qmry] and the priest embarrased that I caught it. On a universal level this is a sorta phobia from church leaders to have lay people questioning or challenging them. Although this used to bug me more before I came to peace with it after reading much of history and seeing misunderstandings and erroneous ways of thinking of some priest, lay person, etc. This phobia was built up over a period of time by several hundreds of people trying to challenge the church. Which helped me at least understand why they react as they do. But that’s ok, you just have to be extra careful and respectful when posing questions or challenging an authority. We should be this way anyways but some people feel that the priests should welcome all questions and challenges with a smile, regardless of how it’s asked. Charity should be shown by both. There is a bit of phobia on both sides, but that’s ok we can get beyond that with some work. ” title=”Wink” />
~VictorJune 9, 2005 at 5:06 am #5031
[quote:2xbf7740]I have never had a priest who was too control oriented.[/quote:2xbf7740]
Are you sure? You never know what goes on behind the scenes. One of my complaints about the Catholic Church is how parishes are set up. One man, the pastor, has all the power. He has the veto power and if he doesn’t like it then it will never fly (even if he doesn’t understand the potential of something or completely understand how something works). It’s quite sad in my opinion.
Those kinds of priests don’t always appear as domineering control freaks to the rest of the public, but the parish staff knows better. ” title=”Wink” />June 9, 2005 at 2:58 pm #5044
I have been very blessed with the priests I have had in my lifetime.
And besides, who do you want controlling the Parish? A group of elders? Just curious.June 9, 2005 at 3:07 pm #5045
Well, ideally committees of people from the parish and staff specially trained in specific areas.June 9, 2005 at 5:15 pm #5048
I know what you mean Jon. But in my parish it’s the director of education that does this. Our Parish is just to large for one priest to be that way. So the authority was somewhat passed on to the director.
~VictorJune 9, 2005 at 6:56 pm #5049
Right, that’s what I’m saying. But sometimes the pastor overrides someones recommendation even though he is wrong.June 9, 2005 at 7:05 pm #5050
[quote:3jwug563]But sometimes the pastor overrides someones recommendation even though he is wrong.[/quote:3jwug563]
Yup….seen that before. It can get frustrating.
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