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[color=darkred:1xh6y9p5]I had someone in another forum tell me that I believe in relativism because I see lieing to save a life (The Gestapo during WW2) as justified. But I explained to him that I still believe lieing is wrong and is absolute.[/color:1xh6y9p5]
[b:1xh6y9p5]Relativism:[/b:1xh6y9p5] [i:1xh6y9p5]consists of various theories each of which claims that some element or aspect of experience or culture is relative to, i.e., dependent on, some other element or aspect. [/i:1xh6y9p5]
[color=darkred:1xh6y9p5]I can see why he could think I did, but I think he fails to understand that we don’t do it dependant on culture, history, feelings, etc. But rather dependant upon the absolute truths themselves.
Thoughts?[/color:1xh6y9p5]
[quote:1fdip944]I think the other person has a relative definition of the word “relative”.
” title=”Wink” />[/quote:1fdip944][color=darkred:1fdip944]Upon what?
” title=”Razz” /> [/color:1fdip944]Actually, you can’t say that lying is wrong and absolute yet still believe that lying in some cases (i.e. to save a life) is right. Those conflict in a sense.
However one has to weigh absolutes. Which absolute is greater, not lying or not killing? You’re not necessarily being relativistic by saying that some absolutes have greater weight than others. It’s not as if you were lying for some sinister reason.
What was done by the underground and others to combat the Nazi’s most commonly was called mental reservation.
An example of mental reservation is…
A salesman comes to the door and asks if your mother is home. Mom is in the kitchen and does not want to or does not have the time to see the salesman. You reply, “No my mother is not home” on the outset it sounds like a lie, but if you in telling him that you are not sharing that “while she is in the house, she is not here for salesmen at this time” you are reserving that information which he does not need to know in order for your mother to conduct the business she needs to attend to without interruption.With the Nazi’s if they asked, “Are there any Jew’s (or other people that the Nazi’s wished to immorally persecute) here?” one could answer honestly, “No, there are no jews here (reserving mentally, for you, or that you should know about.)
Another example was a Seminary in Rome during WWII. The Nazi’s heard that jews where being harbored there. The commander of the Nazi’s in Rome came in with his men and asked if there where any jews in being hidden in the seminary, the rector replied, “No” The commander pointed at a man in a cassock, (a jew who was being “hidden” in the open) and asked “Who is that man, is he a jew?” the rector replied, “Oh him, he is our Old Testament Scholar.” He only answered what the Nazi needed to know and stopped before he endangered the life of the jew. He did not lie to the Nazi, he simply reserved some of the information that the Nazi had no honest reason to have knowledge about.
[quote:3rwr7wgr]Actually, you can’t say that lying is wrong and absolute yet still believe that lying in some cases (i.e. to save a life) is right. Those conflict in a sense.
However one has to weigh absolutes. Which absolute is greater, not lying or not killing? You’re not necessarily being relativistic by saying that some absolutes have greater weight than others. It’s not as if you were lying for some sinister reason.[/quote:3rwr7wgr]
[color=darkred:3rwr7wgr]Yeah that’s what I meant by:
[/color:3rwr7wgr][i:3rwr7wgr]But rather dependant upon the absolute truths themselves. [/i:3rwr7wgr]
[quote:2iljrvhr]What was done by the underground and others to combat the Nazi’s most commonly was called mental reservation.
An example of mental reservation is…
A salesman comes to the door and asks if your mother is home. Mom is in the kitchen and does not want to or does not have the time to see the salesman. You reply, “No my mother is not home” on the outset it sounds like a lie, but if you in telling him that you are not sharing that “while she is in the house, she is not here for salesmen at this time” you are reserving that information which he does not need to know in order for your mother to conduct the business she needs to attend to without interruption.With the Nazi’s if they asked, “Are there any Jew’s (or other people that the Nazi’s wished to immorally persecute) here?” one could answer honestly, “No, there are no jews here (reserving mentally, for you, or that you should know about.)
Another example was a Seminary in Rome during WWII. The Nazi’s heard that jews where being harbored there. The commander of the Nazi’s in Rome came in with his men and asked if there where any jews in being hidden in the seminary, the rector replied, “No” The commander pointed at a man in a cassock, (a jew who was being “hidden” in the open) and asked “Who is that man, is he a jew?” the rector replied, “Oh him, he is our Old Testament Scholar.” He only answered what the Nazi needed to know and stopped before he endangered the life of the jew. He did not lie to the Nazi, he simply reserved some of the information that the Nazi had no honest reason to have knowledge about.[/quote:2iljrvhr]
[color=darkred:2iljrvhr]I remember reading about this in the New Advent:[/color:2iljrvhr]
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10195b.htm[color=darkred:2iljrvhr]I was surprised it was doctrine though.[/color:2iljrvhr]
[quote:3h3kq5ul][color=darkred:3h3kq5ul]I remember reading about this in the New Advent:[/color:3h3kq5ul]
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/10195b.htm[color=darkred:3h3kq5ul]I was surprised it was doctrine though.[/color:3h3kq5ul][/quote:3h3kq5ul]
I don’t know if you could call it doctrine per-se. I’ll have to look that up, (I have been known once or twice to mis-speak or mis-type
) I do know it is something that is discussed in moral theology, but I don’t know that it is universally accepted or is a finally settled issue, I think just a majority opinion of moral theologians.Well on looking at your link, I guess it is a doctrine. The old CE is an excellent source and most reliable.
” title=”Wink” />
” title=”Razz” /> [/color:1fdip944]
) I do know it is something that is discussed in moral theology, but I don’t know that it is universally accepted or is a finally settled issue, I think just a majority opinion of moral theologians.- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.