On who?
I’m not sure what you are asking.. ” title=”Neutral” />

~Victor

This is a true shame. I just went through this entire site and I’m scared for the many Christians that will be lead astray by these Heresies. Yes I said Heresies! They profess many of the ST, ND, and RD Centuries Heresies the Church fought.

His attack on the Blessed Virgin, Sola Scriptura, etc… I guess not all learn from history either. This is the on going problem with these so called “New Age” Fundamentalists”. And what is scary is they make it too easy for people to fall away from the truths and act as if Salvation is free and out for anyone who says, “I Believe”, “I’m saved”, etc…

I pray that one day these folks receive Christ truly and realize their sins. I also find it interesting that there is no way to have an open dialog with them, other then through snail mail, further their total lack in knowledge of the Church. Further, we should always remember:

15  “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So by their fruits you will know them. (Matt. 7:15-20) NAB

This is what we need to help guard the faithful against and make sure they are properly Catechized.

Jon, you were not harsh, you were almost merciful. Mercy is not, “Oh lets not hurt their feelings.” Mercy ad not allowing your brother or sister to sin and when you see them you say something to them:

33 “Either declare  the tree good and its fruit is good, or declare the tree rotten and its fruit is rotten, for a tree is known by its fruit. (Matt. 12:33) NAB

and

15  “If your brother  sins (against you), go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have won over your brother. 16  If he does not listen, take one or two others along with you, so that ‘every fact may be established on the testimony of two or three witnesses.’ 17 If he refuses to listen to them, tell the church.  If he refuses to listen even to the church, then treat him as you would a Gentile or a tax collector. 18  Amen, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19  Again, (amen,) I say to you, if two of you agree on earth about anything for which they are to pray, it shall be granted to them by my heavenly Father. 20  For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.” (Matt. 18:15-20) NAB

Further, dark fears light always, so that is why so many attack our Faith. The truth fears no one, for God is Truth and we are his Church!

[quote:3n5ytlxl]I beg to differ with you Catholics! You “say” that you want the truth, but then you use the Catechism much of which does go against Scriptures.
[/quote:3n5ytlxl]

Peace be with you Ron,

Please show where the Catechism goes “against Scriptures”.

Peace be with you Ron,

You have asked a great deal here and I will address each topic one at a time. Understanding, I pray, that the questions you ask are very involved issues. So I will start with the Perpetual Virginity of Mary:

[quote:gbima654]499 The deepening of faith in the virginal motherhood led the Church to confess Mary’s real and perpetual virginity even in the act of giving birth to the Son of God made man. In fact, Christ’s birth “did not diminish his mother’s virginal integrity but sanctified it.” And so the liturgy of the Church celebrates Mary as Aeiparthenos, the “Ever-virgin[/quote:gbima654]

[quote:gbima654]The Bible on the other hand says in Matthew 1:25 – And (Joseph) knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. (KJV)[/quote:gbima654]

The basis for your first Bible quote is the word [b:gbima654][u:gbima654]until[/u:gbima654][/b:gbima654] not [b:gbima654][i:gbima654]till[/i:gbima654][/b:gbima654], you may or may not know that the Greek word for [b:gbima654]until[/b:gbima654] has two meanings and does not imply or exclude normal marital conduct. Because it has been so well addressed in previous writings and responses, I present this for you to read:

The Perpetual Virginity of Blessed Mary[/url:gbima654]

[i:gbima654]We often judge a thing according to our preference and therefore our judgement is emotional rather than objective.” – Limatations of Christ Book 1 Chapter 14.[/i:gbima654]

You wrote:

Greek – ‘ah

Jewish – 251 (Morphology)

Brethren -n. brothers, kin, relatives (Archaic)

brother – n. male sibling; title of a monk used as form of address; fellow member, man who belongs to the same race, male who belongs to the same religion or profession

kin – n. family, kindred, relatives; relative, relation; kinship; family relationship

relative – family member, kinsman

Unfortunately your interpretations of these passages are in literalistic sense and can lead to dangerous interpretations and conclusions. Context of the word and used of the original text is most important. If I say, “That’s a cool car!” does one think the car is cold to the touch? Or is it that I really like the car? Another example would be the use of the terms Brothers and Sisters in a Christian environment. We do not mean of blood relations do we? If so, a long talk is needed with our parents. No we mean our union in the Body of Christ. As it was the tradition of the Jews, first and second centuries Christians. Brethren did not mean ” a male sibling” as you propose.

Jewish custom, as is ours today, recognized kin or family members as brethren. Vine Complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words (a non-catholic publication BTW) second definition is “a blood relative[/b] and use the following example – Abram’s nephew is termed his brother in Gen. 14:16 (KVJ) And he brought back all the goods, and also brought again his brother Lot, and his goods, and the women also, and the people. We know they were not “male siblings” but they were relatives.

Further, St. Paul writes in 1 Corinthians 11:2 (KVJ) Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the ordinances, as I delivered them to you. These letters of St. Paul was to the Church in Corinth, are we to believe that ALL who were in the Church in Corinth were his “male siblings”? And what of the women? I am not mocking you, God knows, but allowing literalistic interpretations guide you can only harm God’s Word! And if you say that it only applies to certain passages at certain times to support your believes, then no two people can understand God’s Word in the same or at least similar manner.

I also suggest you read CCC 500 and 501. You quote of the Catechism is not complete without the entire section of Mary – “ever-virgin”. It is much like law, one cannot quote parts of a law to make it fit unto ones action nor can the law omit case law that scopes it.

And lastly Protestant reformers even supported The Mary’s Perpetual Virginity of Mary:

[b:7iatevaa][i:7iatevaa] As already mentioned, Cousins is not a choice. The word brother is the Greek word “adelphos” which is a common word to describe blood brothers. In Matthew 13:55-56 the femine word “adelphe” is used to describe Jesus’ sistors. If these were cousins, the Holy Spirit could have used the Greek word anepsios as He does in Colossians 4:10 to describe Barnabas’ cousin Mark or the word suggenes which is often used to describe relatives in general (Acts 7:14). Mary’s perpetual virginity goes against Scriptures – In referrence to Jesus Psalmist wrote “I am a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my own mother’s sons.” (Psalm 69:

The use of others as a “witness” does no good either as Galations 1:8-9 says “But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.”

Youe Catechism is also negated because it basicly is just a sly attempt to get additions to the Bible dispite the Bible itself proving to be authorative
in 2 Timothy 3:15-17 – And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. [u:7iatevaa]All scripture is given by inspiration [/u:7iatevaa]of God, and [u:7iatevaa]is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. [/u:7iatevaa]

and warning others not to add onto the Bible

in Revelation 22:18 – For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: (KJV)

[/i:7iatevaa][/b:7iatevaa][b:7iatevaa][/b:7iatevaa]

[quote:10p6fjz4]As already mentioned, Cousins is not a choice. The word brother is the Greek word “adelphos” which is a common word to describe blood brothers.[/quote:10p6fjz4]

[color=darkred:10p6fjz4]No, it’s not. Let me give you an example. [/color:10p6fjz4]
[color=blue:10p6fjz4][b:10p6fjz4]Genesis 11:26[/b:10p6fjz4]
[i:10p6fjz4]Now these are the generations of Terah: Terah begat Abram, Nahor, and Haran; and Haran begat Lot. [/color:10p6fjz4][/i:10p6fjz4]

[color=darkred:10p6fjz4]Now this verse clearly shows us that Abram [later becomes Abraham] was the uncle of Lot. But in another verse, Abram is called Lot’s “brother”: [/color:10p6fjz4]

[color=blue:10p6fjz4][b:10p6fjz4]Genesis 14:12,14[/b:10p6fjz4]
[i:10p6fjz4]And they took Lot, Abram’s brother’s son, who dwelt in Sodom, and his goods, and departed. And when Abram heard that his brother [Lot] was taken captive, he armed his trained servants, born in his own house, three hundred and eighteen, and pursued them unto Dan.[/color:10p6fjz4][/i:10p6fjz4]

[color=darkred:10p6fjz4]Here’s the Greek version from the Septuagint:[/color:10p6fjz4]
[color=blue:10p6fjz4][b:10p6fjz4]Genesis 14:14[/b:10p6fjz4]
[i:10p6fjz4]akousas de abram hoti Echmalwteutai lwt ho [b:10p6fjz4]adelphos[/b:10p6fjz4] autou ErithmEsen tous idious oikogeneis autou triakosious deka kai oktw kai katediwxen opisw autwn hews dan [/color:10p6fjz4][/i:10p6fjz4]

[color=darkred:10p6fjz4]Perhaps you should do a little more research on the word “adelphos” and how it was used in the Bible. This is just one example of many where I can show that “adelphos” was not commonly used to mean blood brothers. And as Fred had already mentioned that Jews wrote the Bible and there is no word for brother in Aramaic.

Peace be with you
~Victor[/color:10p6fjz4]

Victor,
You are right – “there is no word for brother in Aramaic.” – Likewise in Genesis we see Abraham is his (Lot) uncle because Scripture’s reveals this by looking at more Scripture as you showed – And in Mary’s case, the word brother is also meant because of the usage of sisters in Matthew 13:55-56.

As far as John having Mary move in – No problem – Jesus’ brothers were not saved yet as Scripture also tells us in John 7:5 – for neither did his brethren believe in him.

Your church uses “presumes” and “assumes” to fool the ignorant, whereas those that are in the Word, know the Word so much better that we have peace. Mary is blessed, Scripture tells us this. No where does it say that she would be a meditor for us to Jesus and She said “DO as Jesus tells us” (John) but that was it, never mentioning that she would become an intercessor for us. Is God hard of hearing or what? No, so why assume that when Isaiah 8:19 tells us not to contact the dead on behalf of the living?

Ron, I don’t think you really care what we have to say. Your agenda is all spelled out right here: http://www.wisconsinchristiannews.com/v … ory_id=461

If you were seeking in earnest to have a respectable discussion that would be fine, but it seems like you have come here to “evangelize” us silly Catholics into your gospel of doctrines that satisfy your itching ears. (2 Timothy 4:3-4)

Unless you actually have something worthwhile to discuss I suggest you hang it up here because we won’t play your game. ” title=”Wink” />