Question about Catholic Belief on Pope

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This topic contains 10 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  passionately_catholic 5 years, 1 month ago.

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  • #2019

    Deeown
    Member

    Today i was told by my teacher that one huge mistake about Catholics is that they put the Popes infallibility above the Bible. aka if the Pope sais something against the bible or something he wants to add to the belief not found in the bible is alright. is this true?

    #9791

    what’s true is the pope is indeed infallible in things pertaining to faith and morals
    what’s not true is the pope would infallibly declare something contrary to scripture
    indeed, there have been things that some popes said that is contrary to scripture and sacred tradition BUT it was never said that it was an infallible declaration and that therefore means that its just that pope’s opinion and is not something that we should believe as a dogma

    if the pope is not infallible then how do we know that the canon of the bible itself is not a big mistake? after all, it was the pope(Pope Damasus) who decided what the canon would be

    #9792

    Deeown
    Member
    "passionately_catholic":33iz7geo wrote:
    what’s true is the pope is indeed infallible in things pertaining to faith and morals
    what’s not true is the pope would infallibly declare something contrary to scripture
    indeed, there have been things that some popes said that is contrary to scripture and sacred tradition BUT it was never said that it was an infallible declaration and that therefore means that its just that pope’s opinion and is not something that we should believe as a dogma

    if the pope is not infallible then how do we know that the canon of the bible itself is not a big mistake? after all, it was the pope(Pope Damasus) who decided what the canon would be[/quote:33iz7geo]
    I understand the idea that the Pope WOULD NOT declare something contradictory to the scriptures, but lets say HYPOTHETICALLY that he did. would his word be above scriptures? or would we have to, in a way, impeach the Pope and elect a new one?

    #9793

    hmmm, I honestly dont know <img src=” title=”Sad” />
    but in my fallible opinion, i guess his word would have to be above scripture since it was the pope’s word that made the 73 writings scripture…

    LORD FORGIVE ME IF THIS IS HERESY

    i’d like to know what others think

    #9794

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster
    "Deeown":19x7jicr wrote:
    I understand the idea that the Pope WOULD NOT declare something contradictory to the scriptures, but lets say HYPOTHETICALLY that he did. would his word be above scriptures? or would we have to, in a way, impeach the Pope and elect a new one?[/quote:19x7jicr]
    Technically speaking the pope can’t infallibly declare anything that contradicts Scripture.
    #9797

    LARobert
    Participant

    The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is only infallible under the following strict guidelines. The Pope must be.

    1. Teaching to the entire Christian World

    2. In the fullness of his Apostolic Authority

    3. when he is solemnly defining a matter of Faith or Morals

    Now this is a very rare occurance. In fact most Theologians would only be able to cite two times in history that all agree were infallible statements from the Pope.

    From a Catholic point of view, it is not so much the Pope, but the promise of God that He will not allow the Pope to teach error when the Pope makes a solemn infallible statement, that the in office of the Pope, he will not err.

    As for his day to day dealings, as the Bishop of Rome, and as a private theologian, the Pope is not infallible. Only when the circumstances above occur is the Pope protected by the Charism of Infallibility. So entertaining the idea that the Pope could hypothetically proclaim something infallibly and contradict the Scritures is not possible, because of God’s promise to remain with the Church, and of Peter’s Primacy as Jesus foretold.

    Since there is no authority on earth that is superior to the Pope, he cannot be deposed, or removed by anyone else. He may resign of his own accord.

    There are a few stories of Popes who were ready to propose something heretical in a statement that would have been promulgated (published) as if it was infallible. From what I recall, these Popes died before they could officially promulgate the supposed claims. Some Catholic Historians and Theologians offer this as a minor proof that God prevented these Popes from teaching error as if it was an infallible statement.

    #9807

    Deeown
    Member
    "LARobert":1abq8lz6 wrote:
    The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is only infallible under the following strict guidelines. The Pope must be.

    1. Teaching to the entire Christian World

    2. In the fullness of his Apostolic Authority

    3. when he is solemnly defining a matter of Faith or Morals

    Now this is a very rare occurance. In fact most Theologians would only be able to cite two times in history that all agree were infallible statements from the Pope.

    From a Catholic point of view, it is not so much the Pope, but the promise of God that He will not allow the Pope to teach error when the Pope makes a solemn infallible statement, that the in office of the Pope, he will not err.

    As for his day to day dealings, as the Bishop of Rome, and as a private theologian, the Pope is not infallible. Only when the circumstances above occur is the Pope protected by the Charism of Infallibility. So entertaining the idea that the Pope could hypothetically proclaim something infallibly and contradict the Scritures is not possible, because of God’s promise to remain with the Church, and of Peter’s Primacy as Jesus foretold.

    Since there is no authority on earth that is superior to the Pope, he cannot be deposed, or removed by anyone else. He may resign of his own accord.

    There are a few stories of Popes who were ready to propose something heretical in a statement that would have been promulgated (published) as if it was infallible. From what I recall, these Popes died before they could officially promulgate the supposed claims. Some Catholic Historians and Theologians offer this as a minor proof that God prevented these Popes from teaching error as if it was an infallible statement.[/quote:1abq8lz6]
    I see. and is it true that some popes back in the day actually BOUGHT the papacy? (the borgia family)

    #9820

    ^^ how did they buy it? when was that?

    #9841

    Deeown
    Member
    "passionately_catholic":6me96vhj wrote:
    ^^ how did they buy it? when was that?[/quote:6me96vhj]
    during the medieval times (and i think some into the Renaissance) Popes from families like the Borgia family bought their way into the papacy
    #9842

    Papa.Cod
    Member
    "Deeown":2wm4s4hj wrote:
    Today i was told by my teacher that one huge mistake about Catholics is that they put the Popes infallibility above the Bible. aka if the Pope sais something against the bible or something he wants to add to the belief not found in the bible is alright. is this true?[/quote:2wm4s4hj]
    Yep. it’s true. 100%

    "passionatly_catholic":2wm4s4hj wrote:
    guess his word would have to be above scripture since it was the pope’s word that made the 73 writings scripture…

    LORD FORGIVE ME IF THIS IS HERESY[/quote:2wm4s4hj]
    …wow. really? I didn’t think heresy meant including your Pope to this mess. Heresy should and always be Christ centered. what i mean by that is if you speak out against the church’s teachings about Christ not being devine or being god and man, then it should be considered heresy. Otherwise, it’s not.

    "LARobert":2wm4s4hj wrote:
    The Catholic Church teaches that the Pope is only infallible under the following strict guidelines. The Pope must be.

    1. Teaching to the entire Christian World

    2. In the fullness of his Apostolic Authority

    3. when he is solemnly defining a matter of Faith or Morals[/quote:2wm4s4hj]
    1. The whole christian world? Don’t you mean just catholics? No good protestant wants to hear some old geezer preaching to adders who’s ears are already plugged agaisnt the word of god.

    2. What is that? I’m sure THAT’S not biblical…no…wait….it could be…hmmmmm

    3. define “defining a matter of faith or morals.” soooo let’s say old man benidict goes up to the podium and says something about faith AND morals at the same time. should only one of his statements count? LARobert, you should’ve used ‘faith and/or morals’ and not ‘faith or morals.’ I’m just throwing it out there for you

    "LARobert":2wm4s4hj wrote:
    Since there is no authority on earth that is superior to the Pope,[/quote:2wm4s4hj]
    I’m sure Hitler got this beat. After all, your pope obeyed to all of his commands as a child. then again, you might just be talking about religious authority. I’m sure that’s were you were getting at.

    Deeown, youre right. a lot of popes back then bought their way to their possitions along with breaking other rules that “good Catholic priests and popes and the like” would only dream of doing; sex with women (or animals, thier choice), drinking exessive amounts of alcohol, belonging to the National Socialist Party of Germany, tricking innocent laymen that salvation could be purchased for them and their decised relatives through a paper as useless as the pope’s possition itself.

    ok…..let’s look at it this way……i’m not saying that your pope isn’t a nice guy. I mean, his cardnial friends just voted for him. Who doesn’t want to vote for a good guy? all i’m saying is that i kindly disagree on this dudes position as president of the catholic church.

    #9846
    "Papa.Cod":g7dof8ri wrote:
    …wow. really? I didn’t think heresy meant including your Pope to this mess. Heresy should and always be Christ centered. what i mean by that is if you speak out against the church’s teachings about Christ not being devine or being god and man, then it should be considered heresy. Otherwise, it’s not.[/quote:g7dof8ri]
    well, im just not sure if heresy is the correct term, i just have an impression that if its contrary to church teaching then its heresy already, whether its about christology or not…

    like what if somebody said that the book of genesis should not be in the bible, wouldnt that be heresy? im just not sure

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