Prime time Apologetics Opportunity!

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    At another forum, a prime time apologetics opportunity has come up.

    A few Protestants have started their usual “bible only” garbage, and it would be a great time to have some members from this site “show the colors” … so to speak.

    Drop by if you’re up to it. … hp?t=11268

    Sorry, I’m not a huge fan of debate… Uncertaindrummer and Victor …. you guys should be all over this!

    Thanks for the help and enjoy….. but remember, charity above all else!


    I have regiestered and will try my best… Thhanks for the heads up.



    I’m on it. I will contribute what I can. This other forum is a bit more time consuming to keep up with. I have experienced myself typing a reply and just in that minute, 4-5 people had already replied to the person I was trying to reply to. Moves faster then what I’m used to. If catholics unite we can keep up, but it’s hard for just one person. Thanks for the invite again Scott.



    I’m coming Victor, don’t worry! I am stuck at my dad’s office right now though, on an extremely slow computer. But I will jump in as soon as I get the chance.



    Thanks man. What’s your name if I may ask?



    Same as always, of course. Yours?


    Also, I need your help in the “problems with the Catholic church” thread.


    P.S. Dang it is nice having back-up!



    [quote:3p42bfwl]Same as always, of course. Yours?[/quote:3p42bfwl]

    Hmm….. <img src=” title=”Neutral” />
    You prefer to stay anonimous. Ok.



    No, I meant that it is the same as usual: Uncertaindrummer



    Thank God for answered prayers!

    I have been mostly alone for about a year now…. some good Catholic members come in and out, but they are not skilled in apologetics.

    I looked at both of your first couple posts…… OUTSTANDING!

    Keep on defending the faith.

    All with Peter to Jesus through Mary!



    [quote:bkibboym]No, I meant that it is the same as usual: Uncertaindrummer[/quote:bkibboym]

    I meant your real name.

    [quote:bkibboym]Thank God for answered prayers!

    I have been mostly alone for about a year now…. some good Catholic members come in and out, but they are not skilled in apologetics.

    I looked at both of your first couple posts…… OUTSTANDING!

    Keep on defending the faith.

    All with Peter to Jesus through Mary!

    No problem. <img src=” title=”Wink” /> I will stick around as long as the Lord wills.



    OH, my real name… Hmmm… I had no idea you meant that. Stephen, by the way.

    And you are welcome, Scott, if you were referring to me… lol



    Hey all…

    Robert (one of the Protestant members in the thread) keeps sending me private messages.

    He seems to think that I’m being arrogant by bowing out of the thread…. I’ve tried to explain that you guys will be more than capable of discussion with him, but that I find Protestant “bible-only” theology a joke.

    Here’s the PM I sent him:
    [quote:2ri08jyg][quote:2ri08jyg]Hey Scott,
    Thanks again. Just some quick questions. “Theology”? The study of God right?[/quote:2ri08jyg]You are quite welcome…. I enjoy our chats.
    Theology is the study of religious faith, practice, and experience.
    [quote:2ri08jyg]I do not consider myself a “Protestant” [/quote:2ri08jyg]As you have a right…. to me it is an easier way to clarify than saying non-Catholic, as I believe all Christians are part of the Catholic faith.
    [quote:2ri08jyg] but I do see the only source of God’s revelation to man in the scriptures. That would be Gen. to Rev. Robert[/quote:2ri08jyg]
    Well, here is the reason that we’ll have difficulty relating to each other.

    God is revealed to man (in my opinion) in various ways. All that is good in this world is of God, for Christ is the very source of truth and goodness.

    The problem with the Protestant fideism, is that it fails to recognize the importance of rational knowledge and philosophical discourse for the understanding of faith, indeed for the very possibility of belief in God. One currently widespread symptom of this fideistic tendency is a “biblicism” which tends to make the reading and exegesis of Sacred Scripture the sole criterion of truth. In consequence, the word of God is identified with Sacred Scripture only…. as if the Holy Spirit died with the completion of the Bible.

    There is a danger inherent in seeking to derive the truth of Sacred Scripture from the use of one method alone, ignoring the need for a more comprehensive exegesis which enables the exegete, together with the whole Church, to arrive at the full sense of the texts. Those who devote themselves to the study of Sacred Scripture should always remember that the various hermeneutical approaches have their own philosophical underpinnings, which need to be carefully evaluated before they are applied to the sacred texts.

    This is the reason that if you take 10 “Bible-Only” Christians and ask them to interpret the meaning of various Scripture verses, you will very likely get 10 different answers.

    Most of these “Bible-Only” Christians (yourself included, I imagine) don’t even have a basic knowledge of the history of the Christian faith and can’t explain the formation of the Canon of Scripture. Most act as if for the first 2000 years of Christian existance, the Holy Spirit remained “hidden” to Christianity ….. until they (you) picked up the Bible and “figured things out”.

    Your faith in Christ may be strong Robert, and I thank God for that….. but you have to understand that God is more than the Bible you hold in your hands….. the Holy Spirit is not confined to the pages of your Bible.

    I imagine that all of this will fall of deaf ears…. I have talked with enough Bible Christians to realize that for them, faith in Scripture is enough for them…. and don’t get me wrong…. IT IS!

    > for faith. But it is not enough if you wish to engage in a discussion about your faith with others. Atheists rip apart the Bible only Christians and run them out of here on a daily basis because they have a faith based on circular logic, devoid of any intellectual respect.

    Like I said before, faith in Christ as Savior and Lord is all I care about…… if you have that, thank God….. but if you’d like to discuss theology you’ll have to educate yourself a bit more and realize that the Holy Trinity is not dead and stuffed into your Bible, they are alive and well in the Catholic Church today.

    I hope I’m wrong about you….. to see, let me have you answer a couple questions:

    1. Where did your Bible come from?

    2. Why do you believe in the Bible?

    Peace be with you,


    Thoughts, advice…. should I add anything?




    Well said Scott.

    In recent dialgues with [i:2nkzcgbh]bible christians[/i:2nkzcgbh] I have raised an argument that they also seem to struggle with. Nothing new to you guys but it can be effective with those who wish to listen.

    My argument is simply based on the observation that those who rely on Scripture alone for their doctrines don’t have the same doctrines. And I ask myself, why not? If Scripture were clear (i.e., “easily understood”), then I would expect these people to easily understand it. The fact that they all seem to think Scripture is teaching something different suggests to me that Scripture must not be all that clear, that is, assuming these people are interpreting it in good faith and sincerely trying to follow its teachings.
    This is even a bigger blow to [i:2nkzcgbh]church of Christ[/i:2nkzcgbh] members because they don’t believe the Holy Spirit guides the Church anymore. That it died with the death of the last apostle. They argue that they agree on the “essentials” but if you were to get a list of the “essentials” from one one of the local COC churches and then drive a little further to another, you will find an apparent mismatch in lists. Could you possibly find this in a Catholic Church? Perhaps, but there lies a big difference. WE HAVE A FIX FOR IT!!!


    PS-Scott, does he seem to think me that and Stephen (uncertaindrummer) aren’t competent enough?


    Good job indeed, Scott. Sola Scriptura is self refuting for many reasons, but mroe than anything, the fact that NO book can verify itself. If I were to write a book and say “This book is all you need to be saved”, it would be ridiculous becuase no book can verify itself. YET, if you admit something ELSE verified the book… Well there goes Sola Scriptura!



    [quote:kgob7hy3]PS-Scott, does he seem to think me that and Stephen (uncertaindrummer) aren’t competent enough?[/quote:kgob7hy3]
    Well, first… thanks to you and Stephen for the kind words about my message to Robert.

    I don’t think Robert has doubts about you two…. but he has known me for a month or two…. maybe he’s more comfortable with me.

    I actually “recruited” him from an anti-Catholic forum…. he’s a good guy and I think actually is interested in learning.

    He, like so many others, are so entrenched in the false doctrines of the Protestant faith that no amount of apologetics may be enough to get him “to wake up and smell the Eucharist!” <img src=” title=”Very Happy” />

    I pray for him and all of our separated brethren.




    Hey guys…. now that I have been blessed with the core of our RCC “dream team”… hehehe…. I’d like to propose a few “ground rules”.

    1. Let’s not disagree in public… if you have a problem with an anothers post, let’s meet [b:xti9zcl9]here[/b:xti9zcl9] and work it out. I think it’s important for us to remain unified and not seem unsure of our faith.

    2. Maybe we can ask Jon to create a Members Only group for us here… a sub-forum were we can truly be private and work on strategy…. I don’t know him all that well, maybe one if you two know him well?

    3. Charity above all else…… RF is my home and I would appreciate it if we can all be effective examples of Catholics there… not only in teaching the faith, but also by the example of our charity and prudence. Send me a private message if you see me losing my temper, and I’ll do the same for you guys.

    Any other ideas….. this is pretty cool to have a “team”…. I pray you guys feel the same way.




    [quote:dvu9bmls]Any other ideas….. this is pretty cool to have a “team”…. I pray you guys feel the same way. [/quote:dvu9bmls]

    You have no idea how pumped I get about this.
    This is funny cause I was just thinking of what you just said.
    Good idea. If we disagree, let’s wrestle it out in here.



    WOW, that is really weird… just earlier today I was like “It would be nice if we never disagreed in public because then Catholicism would come across as it should–unified”.

    Wow. Either way, yeah. Although, the only thigns we would disagree on would be minor disciplines and stuff-I don’t think Victor will be claiming “This is my Body” is symbolic anytime soon, lol

    And I am freakishly enthusiastic about this as well.



    [quote:2ew039fy]-I don’t think Victor will be claiming “This is my Body” is symbolic anytime soon, lol[/quote:2ew039fy]

    Nope. :mrgreen:

    I know you guys are pretty busy as is but there is another forum which is much slower then the and this one. It only has like 50 members. I’ve been chatting with the webiste creator (Anti-Catholic Baptist) for some months now but I get outnumbered in there, for I am the only Catholic. Stop by when you guys get a chance and check out the topics as well.



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