Prayer, in theory, does nothing

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  LEX 9 years, 5 months ago.

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  • #1172

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    Yes, I am stirring the pot, but also seeking an answer.

    If we believe that God knows all (past, present and future) what difference does it make to pray? The outcome has already been determined in one sense.

    God is omniscient – he knows our thoughts. Why pray if God already knows?

    The only benefit I can see is the physical/chemical reaction that happens in the brain when someone enters deep prayer or meditation.

    But otherwise it appears that prayer has no practical purpose since God already knows. God can just act accordingly if he chooses.

    #5679

    Victor
    Member

    Whoa, this is like dejavu. :shock:

    [quote:2f8rl3ve]God is omniscient – he knows our thoughts. Why pray if God already knows?[/quote:2f8rl3ve]

    Because God can change his plans based on the pleas of the righteous.
    How he manages to respect free will and still know is mind blowing.

    ~Victor

    #5697

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    How can God change his plans? He already knows what he is going to do. It’s not a change since he always knows. To change would be to say that God is deviating from what he already was going to do which contradicts the very nature of God.

    #5698

    Victor
    Member

    [quote:nky9aakm]How can God change his plans? He already knows what he is going to do. It’s not a change since he always knows. To change would be to say that God is deviating from what he already was going to do which contradicts the very nature of God.[/quote:nky9aakm]

    Didn’t he change His mind in letting some people live or die?

    #5700

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    When?

    #5702

    Victor
    Member

    [quote:dzifc8sq]When?[/quote:dzifc8sq]

    You weren’t supposed to ask….lol
    I just remember somewhere in the bible. Let me look it up.

    ~Victor

    #5719

    Dave
    Member

    He may know all of the past, present, and future, but I thought I read that time is irrelevent to Lord God? That’s where the free will comes in I think. Since time is irrelevent to Him, then free will can change whatever and it will still be seen by Him. Did any of that make sense? No? Good, discuss :mrgreen:

    #5732

    Benedict
    Member

    [quote:e7crqyak][quote:e7crqyak]When?[/quote:e7crqyak]

    You weren’t supposed to ask….lol
    I just remember somewhere in the bible. Let me look it up.[/quote:e7crqyak]
    How about I give you a clue?

    Abraham spoke up again: “See how I am presuming to speak to my Lord, though I am but dust and ashes! What if there are five less than fifty innocent people? Will you destroy the whole city because of those five?”

    “I will not destroy it,” he answered, “if I find forty-five there.”

    #5733

    Victor
    Member

    [quote:3bb9ltm6][quote:3bb9ltm6][quote:3bb9ltm6]When?[/quote:3bb9ltm6]

    You weren’t supposed to ask….lol
    I just remember somewhere in the bible. Let me look it up.[/quote:3bb9ltm6]
    How about I give you a clue?

    Abraham spoke up again: “See how I am presuming to speak to my Lord, though I am but dust and ashes! What if there are five less than fifty innocent people? Will you destroy the whole city because of those five?”

    “I will not destroy it,” he answered, “if I find forty-five there.”[/quote:3bb9ltm6]

    I’m not really sure if He changed his mind in this situation. He still destroyed Sodom and Gomorrah.

    #5734

    Benedict
    Member

    He certainly changed His mind about the standards. He said 50 and Abraham talked Him down to 10. It is the Sodomites’ fault that there were not 10 to be found.

    #5735

    Victor
    Member

    [quote:3bxql6ay]He certainly changed His mind about the standards. He said 50 and Abraham talked Him down to 10. It is the Sodomites’ fault that there were not 10 to be found.[/quote:3bxql6ay]

    Well, I was kinda thinking that the standard was already set before hand. The standard being 1. Abraham only happened to ask away until it got to that point.

    ~Victor

    #5736

    Fred
    Member

    Peace be with all!

    Jon, you did stir the pot, lol. God is omniscient. But prayer is how we demonstrate our commitment and love for God. Remember, we where created as an expression of his love to express our love for him. It is to commune with God and demonstrate our love for Him.

    Now as for what Victor asked about God changing his mind. The plain simple answer is no he cannot. We had this in my Master Catechism class. God cannot change his mind because he is perfect. Perfection defined is; [i:hprar4re]the state of being without a flaw or defect [/i:hprar4re] To change your mind means imperfection and thus says God is flawed.

    [quote:hprar4re]Catechism 213 The revelation of the ineffable name “I AM WHO AM” contains then the truth that God alone IS. The Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, and following it the Church’s Tradition, understood the divine name in this sense: God is the fullness of Being and of every perfection, without origin and without end. All creatures receive all that they are and have from him; but he alone is his very being, and he is of himself everything that he is.[/quote:hprar4re]

    [quote:hprar4re]Catechism 370 In no way is God in man’s image. He is neither man nor woman. God is pure spirit in which there is no place for the difference between the sexes. But the respective “perfections” of man and woman reflect something of the infinite perfection of God: those of a mother and those of a father and husband.241 [/quote:hprar4re]

    God Bless!

    #5758

    LEX
    Member

    obviously god know what you going to pray before you do it that is why Jesus says not to babal on like pagans, because god gets it! God commands us to pray, it shows we are faithful. He can only answer are prayers not our thoughts, he would get no glory then and people woulnd come to see what god can do.

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