Popularity of the Latin Rite

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 5 voices, and was last updated by  LARobert 7 years, 12 months ago.

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  • #1709

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster
    #8510

    Victor
    Member

    [color=darkred:2p7dw487]I get the impression from the East (Eastern Orthodox and the eastern Churches in communion with us) that the West has a tendecy of over thinking things in our theology and philosophy as it pertains to Church life and practice. As a result, it has a tendency of making it more legalistic and overly structured. In turn, it has the inadvertent affect of taking away the mystery of the Mass.

    I can see what they are saying, but I’m not entirely convinced what the exact reason is. I have observed that the newer churches in my area try to make it very protestant friendly. With the architecture, not so many statues, etc.

    One thing I’m convinced of is that if you change the style worship of Mass along with the things I mentioned, it’s going to affect how people see things.[/color:2p7dw487]

    #8512

    LARobert
    Participant

    Getting far too technical, what we normally refer to as the Latin Rite, is truly the Roman Rite. The missal we use in the west is usually taken from the Editio Typica of the Missale Romanum, or Roman Missal. Up until 1965 the Most common of the Latin Rites, was what is now referred to as the Tridentine Rite. The Missal used from 1560 to 1965 was also called the Missale Romanum. There also existed (and continues to exist the Ambrosian and the Mozarabic Rite.) The Ambrosian Rite was/is celebrated alongside the Roman Rite in Milan Italy. It’s core goes back to St. Ambrose. The Mozarabic Rite, once spead out among the Spanish Colonies was a Rite of the Mass perculiar to Toledo Spain. Now only three Churches and the Cathedral Chapel have a regular Mozarabic Mass, (they use a missal called the Missale Mixtum, sometimes called the Missale Gothicum.) Formerly there was also the Servite, Dominican, Norbertine, Carmelite, Carthusian and other rites that where offered by their respective Religious Orders. they are still offered from time to time in different places with appropriate permission. Other rites that where offered on rare occasions or fell into disuse where the Braga, (Portugal) Sarum (England) Lyon (France) the last two a form of the old Gallican Rite from France. and a half dozen to a dozen others.

    Why do I go on about this, well to tell you the truth for those on the left who feel threatened by the Tridentine Mass and the Traditionalists (at least those who are in communion with the Pope, and accept the New Mass, but prefer the older ways of worship.) More than one Latin Rite has existed side by side in the past and they have complimented rather than ditracted from each other. And for the Traditionalist who say the Tridentine is the only Mass, or the “True Mass” there has always been a variation in rites in the Church, even in the “Latin” Church. St. John Marie Vianney did not use the “Tridentine” Mass, but the Rite of Lyon. As long as the rite is approved by the Church it is a valid and appropriate form of worship offered to the Trinity. No one rite is superior to another, even though one form may be more comfortable to you or me. I myself love the beauty and majesty of the “Tridentine” Rite. I do however accept ALL the other approved rites of the Church. The only thing I expect when I go to Mass is that the Rite I am attending is followed and the priest does not ad-lib and make the Mass into a stage show.

    #8516

    Carmelite
    Member

    [quote:1e73b3bt]
    I think the church would benefit from the other rites having more exposure.
    [/quote:1e73b3bt]

    Pope JPII had this to say:
    [color=darkred:1e73b3bt]In this perspective an expression which I have frequently employed finds its deepest meaning: the Church must breathe with her [b:1e73b3bt]two lungs[/b:1e73b3bt]! In the first millennium of the history of Christianity, this expression refers primarily to the relationship between Byzantium and Rome. From the time of the Baptism of Rus’ it comes to have an even wider application: evangelization spread to a much vaster area, so that it now includes the entire Church. If we then consider that the salvific event which took place on the banks of the Dnieper goes back to a time when the Church in the East and the Church in the West were not divided, we understand clearly that the vision of the full communion to be sought is that of [b:1e73b3bt]unity in legitimate diversity[/b:1e73b3bt]. This is what I strongly asserted in my Encyclical Epistle Slavorum Apostoli 85 on Saints Cyril and Methodius and in my Apostolic Letter Euntes in Mundum 86 addressed to the faithful of the Catholic Church in commemoration of the Millennium of the Baptism of Kievan Rus’.[/color:1e73b3bt]
    Ut unum sint (That They May Be One)
    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_ … nt_en.html

    #8520

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    I like that you highlighted “unity in legitimate diversity.” Key word being legitimate.

    Having just a difference of opinion on serious issues isn’t generally good for the Church. However if different cultural traditions bring about different styles of worship that enhance the faith then it is worthwhile.

    Maybe when I move to Boston I can experience some of the different rites.

    #8521

    LARobert
    Participant

    You may want to start out with the Melekite Rite. They follow the Byzantine Rite, and come from the Middle East, so you will be able to hear the Pater, (Our Father) in Aramaic, the language our Lord firsts offered the prayer in. The Cathedral Churches usually have more liturgical services, (and longer ones) as they are the seat of the Bishop.

    Annunciation Cathedral, 7 VFW Parkway, Roslindale, MA 02131
    St. Joseph, 241 Hampshire Street, Lawrence, MA 01841
    Our Lady of Perpetual Help, 256 Hamilton Street, Worcester, MA 01604

    #8525

    Carmelite
    Member

    [quote:lpcanvfk]
    Having just a difference of opinion on serious issues isn’t generally good for the Church. However if different cultural traditions bring about different styles of worship that enhance the faith then it is worthwhile.
    [/quote:lpcanvfk]

    Faithful Catholics cannot have varying opinions on what the Church has definitively defined/Divine Revelation. We can have varying opinions on what the Church has not yet defined or on what falls under “prudential judgment”.

    This covers what is to be believed by all faithful Catholics:
    [color=darkred:lpcanvfk]Canon 750 ‚Äì ¬ß 1. Those things are to be believed by divine and catholic faith which are contained in the word of God as it has been written or handed down by tradition, that is, in the single deposit of faith entrusted to the Church, and which are at the same time proposed as divinely revealed either by the solemn Magisterium of the Church, or by its ordinary and universal Magisterium, which in fact is manifested by the common adherence of Christ’s faithful under the guidance of the sacred Magisterium. All are therefore bound to avoid any contrary doctrines.
    § 2. Furthermore, each and everything set forth definitively by the Magisterium of the Church regarding teaching on faith and morals must be firmly accepted and held; namely, those things required for the holy keeping and faithful exposition of the deposit of faith; therefore, anyone who rejects propositions which are to be held definitively sets himself against the teaching of the Catholic Church.[/color:lpcanvfk]

    http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_ … em_en.html

    #8531

    Victor
    Member

    [quote:1rq4bvid]You may want to start out with the Melekite Rite. They follow the Byzantine Rite, and come from the Middle East, so you will be able to hear the Pater, (Our Father) in Aramaic, the language our Lord firsts offered the prayer in. The Cathedral Churches usually have more liturgical services, (and longer ones) as they are the seat of the Bishop.

    Annunciation Cathedral, 7 VFW Parkway, Roslindale, MA 02131
    St. Joseph, 241 Hampshire Street, Lawrence, MA 01841
    Our Lady of Perpetual Help, 256 Hamilton Street, Worcester, MA 01604[/quote:1rq4bvid]

    [color=darkred:1rq4bvid]There is one just a couple miles from my house. I think I may just pop in.[/color:1rq4bvid]

    #8532

    LARobert
    Participant

    There is also a Russian Rite Catholic Parish, (I think in Norwalk) Russian Liturgical Chant is otherworldly. The Eastern Churches refer to the Liturgy as a little bit of heaven on earth. As that is what the Mass is, a prelude to the worship of God in Heaven.

    #8534

    weather
    Member

    Vatican, Jul. 16, 2007 (CWNews.com) – Pope Benedict XVI (bio – news), who recently issued a motu proprio allowing all Catholic priests to celebrate the old Latin Mass, uses the older ritual himself for his private Mass, CWN has learned.

    Informed sources at the Vatican have confirmed reports that the Holy Father regularly celebrates Mass using the 1962 Roman Missal. [color=blue:10q9stoz](I still have mine)[/color:10q9stoz]
    In his motu proprio Summorum Pontificum the Pope says that the older form– the form in universal use before the liturgical changes that followed Vatican II– was never abrogated.

    Since becoming Roman Pontiff, Benedict XVI has always used the new ritual– which he identifies in Summorum Pontificum as the “ordinary form” of the Roman rite– for public celebrations of the Eucharistic liturgy. However few people have witnessed the Pope celebrating his private daily Mass.

    Unlike his predecessor John Paul II, who regularly invited visitors to attend the Mass that he celebrated each morning in his private chapel, Benedict XVI has made it his regular practice to celebrate Mass with only a few aides. The Pope’s closest associates have established a reputation for preserving confidences.

    Pope Benedict has long been known as an ardent defender of the Catholic liturgical tradition. In the early 1990s he raised eyebrows in Rome by writing a laudatory preface to the book The Reform of the Roman Liturgy, in which Msgr. Klaus Gamber decried many of the liturgical changes of the past few decades.

    Then-Cardinal Ratzinger also traveled to Wigratzbad, in Bavaria, to ordain priests for the Fraternity of St. Peter, a group devoted to the use of the traditional liturgy. He performed those ordinations, as well as Mass on Easter Sunday in 1990, using the 1962 Roman Missal.

    http://www.cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=52403

    #8535

    LARobert
    Participant

    As I prefer the “extraordinary” Use to the “ordinary” Use for my own spiritual sustinance, I am happy to read that the Holy Father uses it in his private chapel. As Patriarch of the West, he has every right to use any western Rite. As Supreme Pontiff, he has every right to use any approved Rite, Eastern or Western. One of the traditional practices of a Solemn Papal Mass in the 1962 and prior rite was having the Pope attended by not the usual one deacon and one sub-deacon, but two, one Latin and the other Greek. Both would chant the Epistle and the Gospel, one of them in Greek and the other in Latin, in order to show both the equality of East and West as valid expressions of the Catholic Faith, and as an expression of the Popes authority over the entire Body of Christ, as the Vicar of Christ.

    There are many photos of Eastern Rite Bishops offering the Eastern Rite Masses (or Divine Liturgies) both at the Second Vatican Council and prior to the Council. There have even been Greek Popes who offered the Eastern Liturgy at St. Peters, (both the present building and the two that existed prior to the present one) These Popes also learned how to offer the Western Rites.

    Being Bi-Ritual is not anything new. One of my favorite photos of the late Archbishop Sheen shows him vested in Eastern Rite vestments in order to celebrate the Eastern Divine Liturgy. I know a few Bi-Ritual priests and they benefit from celebrating in both the Eastern and Western Rites. As Pope John Paul II, and many others over time have commented, the Western and Eastern Church are like breathing through both lungs.

    #8537

    Carmelite
    Member

    [quote:1smppbz9] There have even been Greek Popes who offered the Eastern Liturgy at St. Peters, (both the present building and the two that existed prior to the present one) These Popes also learned how to offer the Western Rites..
    [/quote:1smppbz9]

    Dear Robert:
    Which Greek popes offered the Divine Liturgy at the present St. Peters?
    I am familiar with Greek Popes of the first centuries but I did not know that there were Greek Popes governing the Catholic Church, after these first few centuries.
    Thanks

    #8538

    LARobert
    Participant

    I mis-typed, there have to my knowledge not been any Popes to offer the Eastern Rites in the Present building, there have however been Greek prelates and Patriarchs who have celebrated the Eastern Rites in the presence of the Holy Father at an altar set up near the Papal Altar in the present building. I’ll have to research when the last Greek to be elevated to the Holy See was. I will get back to you on that one.

    I have somewhere a book that discusses Popes who have celebrated Eastern and western rites. While most have offered primarily the western or Latin Rite when ascending the throne of Peter, many have from time to time offered the Eastern Rites in St. Peters. Greeks elected to the See of Peter since the first couple of centuries…

    Pope Theodore I
    Pope from 642 to 649; the date of his birth is unknown. He was a Greek of Jerusalem and the son of a bishop, Theodore. His election as pope was promptly confirmed by the Exarch of Ravenna, perhaps because he was a Greek, and he was consecrated 24 Nov., 642.

    Pope St. Martin I
    Martyr, born at Todi on the Tiber, son of Fabricius; elected Pope at Rome, 21 July, 649, Martin, one of the noblest figures in a long line of Roman pontiffs (Hodgkin, “Italy”, VI, 268) was, according to his biographer Theodore (Mai, “Spicil. Rom.”, IV 293) of noble birth, a great student, of commanding intelligence, of profound learning, and of great charity to the poor. Piazza, II 45 7 states that he belonged to the order of St. Basil. He governed the Church at a time when the leaders of the Monothelite heresy, supported by the emperor, were making most strenuous efforts to spread their tenets in the East and West.

    Pope John VI
    A Greek, the date of whose birth is unknown; d. 11 January, 705. He ascended the papal throne 30 October, 701.

    Pope Constantine
    Consecrated 25 March, 708; d. 9 April, 715; a Syrian, the son of John, and “a remarkably affable man”. The first half of his reign was marked by a cruel famine in Rome, the second by an extraordinary abundance.

    Pope St. Zachary
    (ZACHARIAS.)
    Reigned 741-52. Year of birth unknown; died in March, 752. Zachary sprang from a Greek family living in Calabria; his father, according to the “Liber Pontificalis”, was called Polichronius.

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