please help me understand this…

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This topic contains 12 replies, has 4 voices, and was last updated by  Joxios 3 years, 4 months ago.

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  • #2031

    God allowed His Son, Mother and all the Christian martyrs to die for our sake, but He did not allow two prophets to die(enoch and elijah)

    i believe that God is just, but where is the justice there???
    just need insights <img src=” title=”Very Happy” />

    #9970

    Papa.Cod
    Member

    Whoa whoa whoa whoa wait a minuet?!?!?! Mary was a martyr? thats kinda weird considering you guys believe that she’s perfect and all…given that shes born without sin and stuff….
    so they died as martyrs for our sake? waddya mean by that?

    #9975
    "Papa.Cod":14e11ev1 wrote:
    Whoa whoa whoa whoa wait a minuet?!?!?! Mary was a martyr? thats kinda weird considering you guys believe that she’s perfect and all…given that shes born without sin and stuff….
    so they died as martyrs for our sake? waddya mean by that?[/quote:14e11ev1]
    ok ok, she’s definitely not martyred the way the other early christians were martyred like being burned at the stake or fed to the lions, but since she had the most intimate relationship with the son of God then no other person in the world could be more hurt with what happened to our Lord than her, that’s all i’m saying…

    and what’s confusing with saying that she’s a martyr although she had no sin? could you elaborate more please? how exactly do you define the word martyr?

    just to clear things up, we believe that the mother of God had no sin because God prevented her from doing all forms of sin, so ultimately all the credit goes to God…

    and when i say they died for our sake, i meant:
    1. they died to protect the original Christian faith
    2. they set a good example
    3. reflecting on their sufferings could help us endure whatever kind of suffering we encounter on our lives…
    that’s pretty much it <img src=” title=”Very Happy” />

    #9976

    LARobert
    Participant

    While the Catholic Church has not referred to our Lady as a Martyr. There is a long standing tradition that there are two kinds of martyrdom.

    a “White” Martyr, is someone who suffers persecution for the Faith, but is not killed for his Faith. They are also sometimes called Confessors, as they confess openly the Faith and suffer for it.

    “Red” Martyrs is a term for those who suffer and die for the Faith.

    #9977

    is that part of our sacred tradition???

    #9979

    LARobert
    Participant

    Very good question. I would not place it in tradition as far as the Deposit of Faith, but more in line with Catholic culture.

    #9981

    Papa.Cod
    Member
    "passionately_catholic":3q1c3n35 wrote:
    and what’s confusing with saying that she’s a martyr although she had no sin? could you elaborate more please? how exactly do you define the word martyr?[/quote:3q1c3n35]
    Oh..yknow…dying a bloody death by being impaled by spears through the chest and bleeding to death or burning so that your flesh becomes ashes…maybe something youre interested in? :lol:

    "passionately_catholic":3q1c3n35 wrote:
    just to clear things up, we believe that the mother of God had no sin because God prevented her from doing all forms of sin, so ultimately all the credit goes to God…[/quote:3q1c3n35]
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :lol: Nnnnot according to your compendium: catechism of the Catholic church book…it says [i:3q1c3n35]Q: What does the “Immaculate Conception” mean?” A: God freely cose mary from all eternity to be the Mother of his Son. In order to carry out her mission she herself was ‘conceived immaculate.’ This means that, thanks to his graces of God and in anticipation of the merits of Jesus Christ, Mary was preserved from original sin for the first instant of her conception[/i:3q1c3n35]

    I congratulate your church as a whole not only because you misquoted the BIBLE itself but because you LIE to MILLIONS of innocent people to believe that Mary was another person besides Christ himself to be born without sin (with the exception of Adam and Eve who, contrary to your FALSE believes, are actual people and not made up)

    #9986

    LARobert
    Participant

    Papa:

    First you have to quote people correctly, the quote you attributed to me was not mine.

    Secondly, nobody who posts here claims to be writing infallibly. All of us here are fallible, and can be our own understanding. Most of us come here to learn. I learn each day.

    Thirdly, we’ve gone over the fact that the Catechism is a short exlanation in the simplest of terms, a starting point in learning the truth.

    The following is thanks to Dave Armstrong, and covers the Authentic Catholic teaching, not just a short statement as found in the Catechism, which you seem to have contorted to say something other than what it really says.

    MARY’S IMMACULATE CONCEPTION

    1. Luke 1:28 “And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, {thou that art} highly favoured, the Lord {is} with thee: blessed {art} thou among women.”

    The Gk. word rendered “highly favoured” here (KJV) and in many translations, is “kecharitomene.” Catholic Bibles usually translate it “full of grace,” which is permissible, and not merely a biased position. E.g., the Protestant Amplified Bible mentions in a note that “endued with grace” is the “literal translation.” W.E. Vine’s Expository Dictionary of N.T. Words, a standard Protestant reference, states that the word means “to make graceful or gracious . . . grace implies more than favour; grace is a free gift, favour may be deserved or gained.”

    If this be true, the Catholic rendering makes more clear the Catholic position that Mary’s Immaculate Conception is entirely unmerited on her part, a sheer act of mercy and grace performed solely by God. “Favour” may imply otherwise. “Kecharitomene,” in any event, is derived from the root “charis,” whose literal meaning is “grace” (it is translated as “grace” 129 out of 150 times in the KJV). The angel is here, in effect, giving Mary a new name (“full of grace”), as if he were addressing Abraham as “full of faith,” or Solomon “full of wisdom” (characteristics which typified them). Throughout the Bible, names were indicative of one’s character and essence, all the more so if God renamed a person.

    2. Catholicism needs only to show the harmony of a doctrine with the Bible. It is not our view that every doctrine of Christianity must appear whole, explicit, and often, in the pages of the Bible. We have also Sacred Tradition, Church Authority, and an acceptance of the development of understanding of essentially unchanging Christian truths. A belief implicitly biblical is not “anti-biblical” or “unbiblical,” as many Protestants would have us believe. In fact, many Protestant doctrines are either not found in the Bible at all (e.g., “Bible alone” and the Canon of the Bible), are based on only a very few direct passages (e.g., the Virgin Birth), or are indirectly deduced from many implicit passages (e.g., the Trinity, the two natures of Jesus Christ). Likewise with the Immaculate Conception and other Catholic Marian beliefs.

    3. Luke 1:35 “And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.”

    This verse explicitly establishes a link between Mary as bearer of the New Covenant and the Ark of the Old Covenant. The Gk. word for “overshadow” (“episkiasei”) was used of the bright cloud at the Transfiguration of Jesus Christ (Mt 17:5; Lk 9:34) and is reminiscent of the Shekinah of the OT, which represented God’s Presence (Ex 24:15-16; 40:34-8; 1 Ki 8:4-11). Mary became like the Holy of Holies in the Temple, where God dwelt. God gave extremely detailed instructions on constructing the ark, since it was to contain His Law (Ex 25-30 and 35-40). Mary had to be that much more holy, since she was to carry the Word of God in the flesh (Job 14:4). Further parallelism between Mary and the Ark is indicated in comparing Lk 1:43 with 2 Sam 6:9, Lk 1:44 with 2 Sam 6:14-16, and Lk 1:39-45,56 with 2 Sam 6:10-12.

    Mary had to be sinless in order to be in such close proximity to God Himself. The whole Bible teaches this (e.g., Ex 3:5; Deut 23:14). God’s Presence imparts and requires holiness (1 Cor 3:13-17; 1 Jn 3:3-9). The Jewish high priest entered the Holy of Holies (where the Ark and God’s Special Presence were) only once a year, under threat of death if God’s instructions were violated (Lev 16:2-4,13). The Ark itself was so holy that only a few were allowed to touch it (Num 4:15; 2 Sam 6:2-7). Thus, Mary, due to her ineffable physical and spiritual relationship with God the Son, the Holy Spirit (as “Spouse”), and God the Father (as “Daughter of Zion”), necessarily had to be granted the grace of sinlessness from conception, just as we all will be cleansed utterly in order to be present with God in heaven (Rev 21:27). Seen in this light, the Immaculate Conception, though still technically a deduction from the Bible, is a very biblical doctrine indeed.

    4. Other biblical parallels to the Immaculate Conception exist. Jeremiah (Jer 1:5) and John the Baptist (Lk 1:15) were sanctified from the womb for the serious tasks to which God was calling them. The Apostles were endowed with many extraordinary gifts for their unique role in the history of Christianity (Acts 2; 2 Cor 3:5-6). Adam and Eve, before the Fall, were immaculate and without sin. They were brought forth from an immaculate earth, just as Jesus came forth from the immaculate Mary. Mary is the “second Eve” just as Jesus was the “second Adam” (Rom 5:14; 1 Cor 15:22,45). Mary, by her profound obedience (Lk 1:38), “undoes” Eve’s disobedience in the Garden. The angels were created sinless and have remained so (except for the rebel demons). Saints in heaven are completely holy (Rev 14:5). God saved Mary by preserving her from the “pit” of sin, while He pulls the rest of us out of it. This is why God is every bit as much her Savior as He is ours (LK 1:47).

    The Immaculate Mary prefigures the perfected Church (Eph 5:25-27). Catholics venerate in Mary no more than the glory promised by God to every creature who stays the course. The doctrine of Original Sin is more difficult to believe than Mary’s Immaculate Conception. It is no difficulty to believe that God can unite a soul to flesh without sin. It is much harder to accept the notion that millions of souls are conceived with it.

    5. It is abundantly strange that so many Protestants see Catholic Marian beliefs as idolatrous, when in fact, the Immaculate Conception is nothing if not a case where God saves absolutely independently of human effort or “works,” without even the possibility of them – pure grace and nothing but grace. Protestants hold that this is what saves everyone who attains salvation. So how can Catholics be chided for applying this notion of unmerited grace to Mary? The only difference is that Catholics believe that God’s applied grace obliterates sin, whereas in Protestantism, it merely “covers it up.” This notion, however, is unbiblical, and was originated, by and large, by Martin Luther.

    6. He who held back the waves of that Jordan, that the ark of the Old Testament might pass untouched and honored through its bed, could hold back the wave of Adam, lest it overflow the ark of the New Testament beneath its defiling floods. For He, who could have limited Adam’s sin unto himself, can ward off that sin from Mary. And what He could, that He willed to do. For why should He not have willed it?
    {Bishop William Ullathorne, The Immaculate Conception, 1855}

    #9987
    "Papa.Cod":q19owjsv wrote:
    Oh..yknow…dying a bloody death by being impaled by spears through the chest and bleeding to death or burning so that your flesh becomes ashes…maybe something youre interested in? :lol:[/quote:q19owjsv]
    yep, i sure would like to die that way someday, it sure is less boring to die that way than just having to wait in a hospital bed till your time is up <img src=” title=”Wink” />

    alright now, you already answered this question

    "passionately_catholic":q19owjsv wrote:
    how exactly do you define the word martyr?[/quote:q19owjsv]
    how about these?

    "passionately_catholic":q19owjsv wrote:
    what’s confusing with saying that she’s a martyr although she had no sin? could you elaborate more please?[/quote:q19owjsv]

    "LARobert":q19owjsv wrote:
    just to clear things up, we believe that the mother of God had no sin because God prevented her from doing all forms of sin, so ultimately all the credit goes to God…[/quote:q19owjsv]
    now, now, that’s my quote!!! :lol:

    "Papa.Cod":q19owjsv wrote:
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :lol: Nnnnot according to your compendium: catechism of the Catholic church book…it says [i:q19owjsv]Q: What does the “Immaculate Conception” mean?” A: God freely cose mary from all eternity to be the Mother of his Son. In order to carry out her mission she herself was ‘conceived immaculate.’ This means that, thanks to his graces of God and in anticipation of the merits of Jesus Christ, Mary was preserved from original sin for the first instant of her conception[/i:q19owjsv]

    I congratulate your church as a whole not only because you misquoted the BIBLE itself but because you LIE to MILLIONS of innocent people to believe that Mary was another person besides Christ himself to be born without sin (with the exception of Adam and Eve who, contrary to your FALSE believes, are actual people and not made up)[/quote:q19owjsv]
    the other quote you just gave says the same thing
    [quote:q19owjsv]thanks to [b:q19owjsv]his graces of God[/b:q19owjsv] and in anticipation of the merits of Jesus Christ, Mary was preserved from original sin for the first instant of her conception[/quote:q19owjsv]
    so what’s wrong???

    #10312

    Joxios
    Member
    "Papa.Cod":24e54uqt wrote:
    "passionately_catholic":24e54uqt wrote:
    just to clear things up, we believe that the mother of God had no sin because God prevented her from doing all forms of sin, so ultimately all the credit goes to God…[/quote:24e54uqt]
    HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! :lol: Nnnnot according to your compendium: catechism of the Catholic church book…it says [i:24e54uqt]Q: What does the “Immaculate Conception” mean?” A: God freely cose mary from all eternity to be the Mother of his Son. In order to carry out her mission she herself was ‘conceived immaculate.’ [b:24e54uqt]This means that, thanks to his graces of God and in anticipation of the merits of Jesus Christ, Mary was preserved from original sin for the first instant of her conception[/b:24e54uqt][/i:24e54uqt][/quote:24e54uqt]
    Hello?

    How about John the Baptist? Thought also in the theological circle as ‘born without sin” why? Because he is full of the Holy Spirit before he is born:

    [u:24e54uqt]Luk 1:15[/u:24e54uqt] “for he will be great before the Lord, and he shall drink no wine nor strong drink, and [b:24e54uqt]he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.[/b:24e54uqt]

    What’s full can’t be filled any more!

    Mary is called God’s hail favored one “Full of Grace”
    Strongs #g5485, [b:24e54uqt] charitoō[/b:24e54uqt]
    1) [b:24e54uqt]to make graceful[/b:24e54uqt]
    a) charming, lovely, agreeable
    2) [b:24e54uqt]to peruse with grace, compass with favour[/b:24e54uqt]
    3) to honour with blessings

    Just the use of the one word ‘favored’ shows Mary made graceful by God

    Mary is called to help save Israel, with the same biblical words Gideon is:

    [u:24e54uqt]Jdg 6:12[/u:24e54uqt] And t[b:24e54uqt]he angel of the LORD appeared to him[/b:24e54uqt] and said to him, [b:24e54uqt]”The LORD is with you[/b:24e54uqt], you mighty man of valor.
    [u:24e54uqt]Jdg 6:14[/u:24e54uqt] And the LORD turned to him and said, “Go in this might of yours and deliver Israel from the hand of Mid’ian; do not I send you?”

    If John the Baptist can be full of the Spirit in his mothers’ womb, (Luke 1:15, 41). Why not Mary?

    As far as “anticipation in the Merits of Christ” We are in time, god is eternal, time does not apply. In Eternity, God sees the Sacrifice of His Son, before it happens in our time. Thus Mary is saved by Jesus’ sacrifice but prevented from being born of original sin, in prepartion for Christ’s incarnation.

    Example: We are pulled from the pool of sin by Christ Sacrifice, and Mary was saved from ever being in the pool by that same sacrifice.

    Adams sin, passed down to generation to generation by his tainted blood, desease and death entered the World. And by behavior and example.

    Jesus would have received this also, if Mary had not been prepared to be a clean vessel to carry Jesus incarnate. She also must have lived an exemplary life of Good and Godly behavior, as an example to Jesus inhis youth.

    Not everything is meant to be placed in scripture.

    Jesus Christ is superior to the Scriptures, they are about Him, they do not contain him. Jhn 20:30; 21:25.

    The Bible is the living Word, and cannot contain all that Taught, Even in the Hebrew Scriptures, men of God taught throughout.

    Deut 6:7, “and y[b:24e54uqt]ou shall teach them diligently[/b:24e54uqt] to your children, and [u:24e54uqt]shall talk of them [/u:24e54uqt]when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise.

    God bless,
    John

    #10317

    Joxios
    Member
    "passionately_catholic":15t0fiqo wrote:
    "Papa.Cod":15t0fiqo wrote:
    Whoa whoa whoa whoa wait a minuet?!?!?! Mary was a martyr? thats kinda weird considering you guys believe that she’s perfect and all…given that shes born without sin and stuff….
    so they died as martyrs for our sake? waddya mean by that?[/quote:15t0fiqo]
    ok ok, she’s definitely not martyred the way the other early christians were martyred like being burned at the stake or fed to the lions, but since she had the most intimate relationship with the son of God then no other person in the world could be more hurt with what happened to our Lord than her, that’s all i’m saying…

    and what’s confusing with saying that she’s a martyr although she had no sin? could you elaborate more please? how exactly do you define the word martyr?[/quote:15t0fiqo]
    Hello,
    One thing I have learned about the Catholic Church, you can always look up our teachings… one thing I learned about the Protestant faiths you can never find a reference for what they say the Catholic Church teaches [Catholic or Protestant] it just isn’t so.

    Martyrdom and sinlessness are two different things, are you saying Mary couldn’t be both?

    Hmmm… that would rule out even Christ sinless and a Martyr, he died for us all.

    Definition of Martyr (Dictionary.com)

    1] a person who is put to death or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause:

    2) a person who is put to death [b:15t0fiqo]or endures great suffering on behalf of any belief, principle, or cause:[/b:15t0fiqo]

    CCC#149:
    Throughout her life and until her last ordeal when Jesus her son died on the cross, Mary’s faith never wavered. She never ceased to believe in the fulfillment of God’s word. And so the Church venerates in Mary the purest realization of faith.

    Our participation in Christ’s sacrifice

    CCC # 618 The cross is the unique sacrifice of Christ, the “one mediator between God and men”. But because in his incarnate divine person he has in some way united himself to every man, “the possibility of being made partners, in a way known to God, in the paschal mystery” is offered to all men. He calls his disciples to “take up [their] cross and follow [him]”, for “Christ also suffered for [us], leaving [us] an example so that [we] should follow in his steps [url](http://www.blueletterbible.org/Bible.cf … SV#comm/21.[/url] “[b:15t0fiqo]In fact Jesus desires to associate with his redeeming sacrifice those who were to be its first beneficiaries. This is achieved supremely in the case of his mother, who was associated more intimately than any other person in the mystery of his redemptive suffering[/b:15t0fiqo] (see luke 2:35)

    Was not Mary’s soul pierced by her sons rejection:

    Luke 2:35 (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.”

    [quote:15t0fiqo]David Guzik (Protestant commentary:

    [url:15t0fiqo]http://www.blueletterbible.org/commentaries/comm_view.cfm?AuthorID=2&contentID=7910&commInfo=31&topic=Luke&ar=Luk_2_35[/url:15t0fiqo]

    c. [u:15t0fiqo]A sword will pierce through your own soul also[/u:15t0fiqo]: It was important for Mary to know that mothering the Messiah would not be all sweetness and light. It was both a great privilege and a great burden.

    i. Possibly [b:15t0fiqo]no other human agonized as much over Jesus’ rejection and suffering as His mother did. [/b:15t0fiqo]This was not only because of the natural love of a mother, but also because His rejection was her rejection. Wonderfully, His vindication was hers also.[/quote:15t0fiqo]
    Biblically When they found Mary they found Jesus

    Mat 2:11 and going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother

    God bless,
    John

    #10323

    Joxios
    Member
    "passionately_catholic":3qub7iuu wrote:
    [b:3qub7iuu]God allowed His So[/b:3qub7iuu]n, Mother and all the Christian martyrs [b:3qub7iuu]to die for our sake[/b:3qub7iuu], but He did not allow two prophets to die(enoch and elijah)

    i believe that God is just, but[b:3qub7iuu] where is the justice there[/b:3qub7iuu]???
    just need insights <img src=” title=”Very Happy” />[/quote:3qub7iuu]
    Back to original topic :

    Hello,

    two prophets out of how many?

    It is a early imagery of afterlife closely associated with judgement:

    Hbr 11:5 By faith Enoch was taken up so that he should not see death; and he was not found, because God had taken him. Now before he was taken [b:3qub7iuu]he was attested as having pleased God[/b:3qub7iuu]

    Their ministry was done time to move on!!!

    Dan 12:2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt

    The idea that a man shows great love for another when he gives his life to defend another person or the community is an ordinary one. People will die to defend that which they love.

    A ‘salt covenant’ is those who share a meal @ table, it is understood that each and everyone @ Table is willing to die for each other.

    It places a greater meaning on Peter’s response to Jesus’ declaration of his death:

    Mat 16:22 And Peter took him and began to rebuke him, saying, “[u:3qub7iuu]God forbid, Lord! This shall never happen to you.”[/u:3qub7iuu]

    It also gives greater meaning to feeding of the:

    Mat 14:21 And those who ate were about[b:3qub7iuu] five thousand men[/b:3qub7iuu], besides women and children. (Luke 9:14, Jhn 6:1-14)

    Luke places the country of the Gerasenes on the other side of the sea from Galilee its population is largely non Jewish.

    [b:3qub7iuu]Luke 8:26[/b:3qub7iuu] Then they arrived at the country of the Ger’asenes, which is opposite Galilee.

    and the 2nd feeding of the four thousand, by the sea @ Galilee

    Matt 15:32-38.

    So Jesus breaks bread with Jew and Gentile, thereby saying he was willing to die for all, Jew and gentile.

    [u:3qub7iuu]Jhn 15:13[/u:3qub7iuu] Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends

    [u:3qub7iuu]Mar 12:31[/u:3qub7iuu] The second is this, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ There is no other commandment greater than these.”

    [u:3qub7iuu]Lev 2:13[/u:3qub7iuu] You shall season all your cereal offerings with salt; you shall not let the salt of the covenant with your God be lacking from your cereal offering; with all your offerings you shall offer salt.
    Ch 13:5 Ought you not to know that the LORD God of Israel gave the kingship over Israel for ever to David and his sons by a covenant of salt?

    [u:3qub7iuu]Num 18:19[/u:3qub7iuu] All the holy offerings which the people of Israel present to the LORD I give to you, and to your sons and daughters with you, as a perpetual due; it is a covenant of salt for ever before the LORD for you and for your offspring with you.

    Why salt? Salt is a type of the church. Jesus said, “You are the salt of the earth.” (Matthew 5:13) Salt fights corruption. Jesus said, “If the salt has lost its saltiness, it is good for nothing but to be cast out and trodden under foot.” The church is not here to cower before evil. The church is here to conquer evil. We are not people-pleasers. We are God-pleasers.

    Salt is used because salt, in history, was priceless. Men have been paid in salt for their labor. We still have the word “salary” from the Latin word for salt. We also have the saying, “He who is not willing to work is not worth his salt.” In the eyes of God, every believer, like salt, is price- less in His sight.

    In ancient times, when two people wanted to enter into a covenant of loyalty, they would recite the details of the covenant, exchange salt from one pouch to the other and then shake the pouches. The symbolism is powerful. The only way this contract could possibly be broken is for each to individually retrieve their own grains of salt, which is impossible. So, once the covenant of loyalty is spoken and made, it is bound on earth and recorded in heaven.

    God tested Abraham’s and Isaacs obedience to see if he would withold his son from Sacrifice, and did not require it of him.
    But the mankind required the Sacrifice of God’s only Son to save it.

    God bless,
    John

    #10324

    Joxios
    Member
    "passionately_catholic":2ha2fjx2 wrote:
    God allowed His Son,[b:2ha2fjx2] Mother and all the Christian martyrs to die for our sake[/b:2ha2fjx2], but He did not allow two prophets to die(enoch and elijah)

    i believe that God is just, but where is the justice there???
    just need insights <img src=” title=”Very Happy” />[/quote:2ha2fjx2]
    We as Catholics believe in Mary’s assumption into heaven, We do not know whether it was at near death or death.

    Assumption> means here “to take up” and refers to Mary’s being “taken up” body and soul to heaven by God.

    In line with this, Pope Pius showed the relation of the Assumption to the Immaculate Conception: “For these two privileges are most closely related to each other. Christ has overcome sin and death by His own death; and one who is reborn in a heavenly way through baptism has, through Christ Himself, conquered sin and death. However, in accord with His general rule, God does not wish to grant the full effect of victory over death to the just until the end of time shall have come…. Yet God wished that the Blessed Virgin Mary be exempt from this general law. For she, by a completely singular privilege, conquered sin in her Immaculate Conception, and thus was not liable to that law of remaining in the corruption of the grave, nor did she have to wait for the end of time for the redemption of her body” (AAS 42. 754)

    Pius XII carefully refrained from saying in his own words at any point that she died. Some, even a few of the Fathers, had denied that she ever died, basing this on the fact that death was the result of original sin, which she lacked. However, because as Pius XII also said, she was “always sharing His lot,” for this reason, likeness to Him, it seems much more probable that she did die.

    The dogma of the bodily assumption of the Virgin Mary is the crowning of the theology of Pius XII. It resolved a theological difficulty that the dogma of the Immaculate Conception had left open: if the soul of Mary had been created without the taint of sin, yet the Bible states that the wages of sin is death, should it be concluded that Mary, who by definition never sinned, therefore never died? T[b:2ha2fjx2]he dogma of her assumption settles the problem by stating that she did not experience the ordinary human death,[/b:2ha2fjx2] [u:2ha2fjx2]but was taken to Heaven as a divine gift.
    [/u:2ha2fjx2]

    God bless,
    John

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