[quote:32zhgd49]…they are wildly incorrect in some of the things they believe about God (similar to how the Jews are incorrect in some of the things they believe about God).[/quote:32zhgd49]
Yet they are somehow saved by the previous covenants with God. That’s a separate conversation in itself, but it’s not something I can quite wrap my mind around.

Muslims are quite in trouble, as far as I know, because they worship Allah, a creation from Muhammad. Islam was made up by this arabian warlord with paedophilic and bloody tendencies, inspired in bits of Judaism and Christianity he knew about, claiming direct descendence from these religions through ¬´revelation¬ª but at the same time denying their truth – Islam claims that both the jews and the christians corrupted the word of God, only the Qur’an contains it litterally and immutably for all times, as Allah revealed to Muhammad through the angel Jibrail (Gabriel).

Islam, though containing some good aspects, is a completely fake religion. Thus, Muhammad is a fake prophet and Allah a fake God. Believe me, I’ve been there and done that. ” title=”Wink” />

I’m sure the relationship of the Church towards muslims is liable to change :rolleyes:. I don’t understand that declaration as dogmatic.

I’m sorry, but I can’t see how a false prophet such as Muhammad can speak revelations from God or deny Jesus’ divinity, not to mention the absurdity of denying His crucifixion! God isn’t Allah, as I’m sure anyone here agrees.

I fail to see how muslims aren’t in profound error by worshipping a false deity.

I mean, there are good muslims, in spite of Islam. There are bad christians, in spite of Christianity.

[quote:jzkmu1iy]As a Catholic, you are not obliged to submit only to dogma. The teachings of the Church, whether dogmatic or pastoral, are to be followed.[/quote:jzkmu1iy]

I know, I’m sorry if I acted too presumptuously on that one. I just feel that the Church’s relationship towards other faiths is liable to change, because as it was different in the past, it can be different in the future, right?

[quote:jzkmu1iy]God is not everything Islam teaches about Allah, but the Catechism is clear that Moslems worship the God of Abraham.[/quote:jzkmu1iy]

They worship the God of Abraham just because they (and Muhammad and the Qur’an) say so? I mean, that kind of recognition is the worst thing one can do about Islam. That’s what they claim – worshipping the same God as Jews and Christians – and that is precisely why we have to ¬´shut the door¬ª. Allah is not YHWH and Isa is not Jesus. Ecumenism is fine, but Truth is better.

[quote:jzkmu1iy]Profound error concerning God? Yes. But they worship the God of Abraham. That they are mistaken about certain of His attributes does not mean He is not the object of their worship.[/quote:jzkmu1iy]

I’m sorry, I fail to see how Allah – a wordly creation from Muhammad – can be, even if in a most imperfect manner, God. ” title=”Confused” />

Now, if we decided to create a religion ([i:jzkmu1iy]?† la [/i:jzkmu1iy]Ron Hubbard, for instance ” title=”Cool” /> ) and said that, indeed God is Manu and that Manu is the God that the Jews, Christians and Muslims worship but what happened was that they all corrupted their scriptures, so that our holy book – the Quackwa – timeless and divinely revealed is the true, incorrupt word from Manu, does that make the object of our religion, (let’s call it Manuism) Manu, the God of Abraham just because we stated so?

[quote:3poh31f0]I’m sorry, I fail to see how Allah – a wordly creation from Muhammad – can be, even if in a most imperfect manner, God.[/quote:3poh31f0]
Allah is also the name by which Arabic Christians refer to God.

You continue to state the issue in the incorrect manner, implying that the Church has equated the Moslem view of God with the truth. I will quote once more what you, as a Catholic, are beholden to accept as the teaching of the Church, whatever your personal opinion on the matter may be:

841 The Church’s relationship with the Muslims. “The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and [b:3poh31f0]together with us they adore the one, merciful God[/b:3poh31f0], mankind’s judge on the last day.”

[quote:3poh31f0]Now, if we decided to create a religion …[/quote:3poh31f0]
Whatever your example, the rise of the Moslem people was promised by God to Abraham.

[quote:p9k2b6e6]The sanctity and love of God is still being performed in those who even do not know God and Christ but they live in the commandment of Christ without realizing it.[/quote:p9k2b6e6]

Islam knows Christ, the Qur’an calls Him ‘Isa. But Islam doesn’t acknowledge Him as Peter and the Apostles and the Church did and do, as the Son of the Living God, God Incarnate.

‘Isa is just a prophet from Allah, who blames Christians throughout the Qur’an to have made him like God, therefore committing [i:p9k2b6e6]shirk[/i:p9k2b6e6], that is, puting partners aside with Allah. [i:p9k2b6e6]Shirk[/i:p9k2b6e6] is an unforgivable sin in Islam.

So muslims and Islam know Christ, but reject Him. I’m sure God can save them, through His Infinite grace, but one can’t say they don’t know Him, either through the fake ‘Isa or through Christianity.

I have to agree with Te Deum here. The Muslims, as with any other religion have some major stumbling blocks to overcome for salvation. Catholic teaching on this reflects accessibilism but may stretch even farther than that into religious instrumentalism. It is commonly assumed that the latter is not found explicitly in scripture and is seen to favor a more positive light (for other religions) than Christians have often done (T. Tiessen).

“They (other religions) can be the means by which God’s salvation reaches those who have not yet heard the gospel.” (Kenneth Cracknell – I think he’s Catholic though not sure)

-Now, who believes that Muslims have not received the Gospel of salvation from Jesus Christ? If they have not, then God will deal with them mercifully and quite graciously. But Catholic theology does not allow one to hear the Gospel and reject it and still find salvation through other means – ignoring and rejecting Christ’s death and resurrection, all who do this are judged.

Religious Instrumentalism still states that salvation is from Christ, it’s just that Christ is the ultimate means to salvation and that other religions in their attempt cannot obtain such worthy obedience as Christians have to Christ. Again, however, this speaks of those who have not heard the Gospel. And I hardly think that only a few of the past Muslims knew of Christ. Still, the “Gospel” we are told that they knew of through early Christians may have been just as bloody and unforgiving as the Muslims own religion. Now however, most Muslims that here the Gospel in a good way actually become Christians and leave and die for their faith. But many do not. Woe to them.

Allah is not the God of Israel. He is the God of Muhummad. Jesus said that even the Samaritans worship a God they do not know but only the Jews worship a God they know, how much worse would it be for Muslims? Truth is found in Islam, but very little of
it. We should pray that Muslims everywhere recognize the glimpse of the truth of the Gospel in Islam and seek more of it.

We must never turn to relativism as many Theologians have done in their search to be gracious to other religions that are lost. The Bible speaks of those who will enter heaven that will astound us, but this may be a very small number! Who knows?

Muslims worship the God of Abraham? Yes they do. So do the Jews. However, they miss the law of Moses and they have also missed the prophecies proclaiming the Messiah, and they have also missed the Messiah. They have missed the fact that Isaac was chosen over Ishmael. They are lost sheep. This does not mean they do not receive the Father’s love, but they are a long way from seeing the Truth. It is amazing how little grace we give to the Jews who are our fathers in faith, and we accept Islam.