is suicide a sin??????

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  • #1934

    Deeown
    Member

    people say suicide is a sin because you end your life before God intended it to end. but why is it smokers, or drug addicts, or over eaters arent considerd suicidals. if someone smokes theylle sooner or later get cancer and die. same with drug addicts and over eaters. thus they would be ending their life sooner than it was suppose to which is a form of suicide. so why is it we only cremate suicidals who end their lived immediatley. what about those who slowly commit suicide. why do we bury them and why dont we consider them suicidals?

    #9414

    James
    Member

    Suicide is the deliberate act of taking one’s life immediately. (I’m sure you know this already.) Suicide can be caused by untreated mental problems and issues. One mental issue that causes most suicide is Depression. The sins you listed, such as gluttony, smoking and drug abuse, are much easier to treat than Depression. I’m not saying Depression is incurable, but in many cases it can be hard to overcome those dark feelings.

    In one case, my Father’s boss was diagnosed with depression about two years ago. He was given the state-of-the-art treatment such as strong medication and even shock therepy. He was hospitalized many times and was in and out all the time. Sadly, he took his life.

    I seem to be avoiding your question…..Do you mean a sin against the Roman Catholic Church or by God’s Law?

    #9417

    Deeown
    Member
    "James":2cky7r00 wrote:
    Suicide is the deliberate act of taking one’s life immediately. (I’m sure you know this already.) Suicide can be caused by untreated mental problems and issues. One mental issue that causes most suicide is Depression. The sins you listed, such as gluttony, smoking and drug abuse, are much easier to treat than Depression. I’m not saying Depression is incurable, but in many cases it can be hard to overcome those dark feelings.

    In one case, my Father’s boss was diagnosed with depression about two years ago. He was given the state-of-the-art treatment such as strong medication and even shock therepy. He was hospitalized many times and was in and out all the time. Sadly, he took his life.

    I seem to be avoiding your question…..Do you mean a sin against the Roman Catholic Church or by God’s Law?[/quote:2cky7r00]
    does it really seem to matter? isnt Gods law the pracitce and law of the Catholic Church? i would certainly hope so…i want to become Catholic on the basis that i will be following Gods law. not a churches.

    #9419

    LARobert
    Participant

    One of the differences between Protestantism and the Catholic Faith is that Protestants tend to see things in Black and White. Suicide is a sin, always and everywere, would be what most Protestants believe. But then again many also believe that one sin is as bad as another, and once you are “saved” you can’t do anything to loose salvation.

    For Catholics we look at one’s intent, and the capacity one has mentally and spiritually to willingly offend God. Suicide, be it shooting ones self in the head, Boxing in a ring until one is so brain damaged that he cannot function and later dies early as a result of the practice, smokes oneself to death, are all considered sinful. However the gravity of that siin, or the very sinfulness of the action is sometimes mitigated by one’s mental status.

    Depression which is a real medical illness, or committing suicide when one is drunk lessens the severity of the sin, because one did not have the mental faculties and does not make the choices one would have if they were not drunk. On autopsy around 10-20% of people have a pituitary tumor in their head, the pressure on the Pituitary gland can cause a number of disorders with ones hormones, and can cause Cushings Disease or high levels of Prolactin to be produced. As 95% of these people were not diagnosed while alive, and one of the side effects of the disorders is an excessive hunger and weight gain, it is really not up to you or me to decide if they are sinning or not.

    Yes the Catholic Church holds suicide, gluttony, and any number of behaviors to be sinful, but it also looks at each individual case, and grant the benefit of the doubt in favor of that person, unless they make a formal public statement that they reject what the Church teaches, and are sinning willfully. Otherwise we allow God who knows us and our souls to judge us.

    #9420

    James
    Member

    [quote:q5o2zpu0][b:q5o2zpu0]470.What is forbidden in by the fifth commandment?[/b:q5o2zpu0]
    The Fifth commandment forbids as gravely contrary to the moral law:…
    -Suicide and voluntary cooperation in it, insofar as it is a grave offense against the just love of God, of self, and of neighbor. One’s responsibility may be aggravated by the scandal given; one who is psychologically disturbed or is experiencing grave fear may have diminished responsibility.

    [u:q5o2zpu0]Compendium: Catechism of the Catholic Church[/u:q5o2zpu0].[/quote:q5o2zpu0]
    That is were the Catholics would stand according to their catechism.

    "LARobert":q5o2zpu0 wrote:
    One of the differences between Protestantism and the Catholic Faith is that Protestants tend to see things in Black and White. Suicide is a sin, always and everywere, would be what most Protestants believe. But then again many also believe that one sin is as bad as another, and once you are “saved” you can’t do anything to loose salvation.[/quote:q5o2zpu0]
    While this may be true for some Calvinistic churches such as the Baptists, Lutherans (The LC-MS Lutherans,) take the same approach as the Catholics would according to LARobert: [quote:q5o2zpu0]Look at one’s intent[/quote:q5o2zpu0]
    Here is the Official website to the LC-MS Church concerning Suicide.
    [url:q5o2zpu0]http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2123[/url:q5o2zpu0]
    #9421

    LARobert
    Participant

    James: I did include the words, [b:3em86vxe]most[/b:3em86vxe] Protestants. As there is no unity of belief among the various Protestant churches. Different Lutheran bodies do take differing stances, Thank you for sharing what the Synod you belong to teaches.

    #9422

    James
    Member

    You’re welcome. I understand that you did mean most Protestants. I’m sorry if I seemed rude or short tempered <img src=” title=”Sad” />

    #10201

    subaru
    Member
    "LARobert":1czp2g0d wrote:
    Depression which is a real medical illness, or committing suicide when one is drunk lessens the severity of the sin.[/quote:1czp2g0d]
    Just a thought: How can we say that a sin is “worse” or “less severe” when anything going against God’s will is a sin? Furthermore, what is even the criteria for a “really bad” sin? In your opinion, it may be committing suicide, but it my opinion, a “really bad” sin might be murder. So, therefore, rating sin based on “level of severity” is very illogical, and really, if my “little sin” isn’t as bad as your “severe sin”, it’s still sin, isn’t it?
    #10234

    LARobert
    Participant
    "subaru":1pgi2v6h wrote:
    "LARobert":1pgi2v6h wrote:
    Depression which is a real medical illness, or committing suicide when one is drunk lessens the severity of the sin.[/quote:1pgi2v6h]
    Just a thought: How can we say that a sin is “worse” or “less severe” when anything going against God’s will is a sin? Furthermore, what is even the criteria for a “really bad” sin? In your opinion, it may be committing suicide, but it my opinion, a “really bad” sin might be murder. So, therefore, rating sin based on “level of severity” is very illogical, and really, if my “little sin” isn’t as bad as your “severe sin”, it’s still sin, isn’t it?[/quote:1pgi2v6h]
    The scripture discusses sin that leads to death which (1 John 5:16-17) and the constant teaching of the Church tell us that there are some sins which are more grave than others. Some which may lead to greater sins, others which cut off our relationship with God. While all sin is repulsive, not all sin cuts us off from the Graces of God.

    Mortal sin is any sin that is very serious, the Church teaches that to be a mortal sin, it must be a serious matter, which we know is offensive to God and we willingly commit.
    Remember, no sin is too bad for God to forgive. The Father sent His Son into the world to forgive us our sins. Through the action of the priest, Christ will forgive all of your sins in His sacrament of confession.

    As we grow in faith and holiness, sins we overlooked or minimized become more horrid to us. If they do not, then we are probably not progressing in our spiritual life, and it may be time to seek out a holy priest who can be our Spirtual Director.

    #10285

    Joxios
    Member
    "Deeown":2j5gf6y1 wrote:
    people say suicide is a sin because you end your life before God intended it to end. but why is it smokers, or drug addicts, or over eaters arent considerd suicidals. if someone smokes theylle sooner or later get cancer and die. same with drug addicts and over eaters. thus they would be ending their life sooner than it was suppose to which is a form of suicide. so why is it we only cremate suicidals who end their lived immediatley. what about those who slowly commit suicide. why do we bury them and why dont we consider them suicidals?[/quote:2j5gf6y1]
    Hi Deeown,

    Why is it we all put some kind of truth into what ‘they say.”

    You speak of addictions and bad habits, People do get sick, well before full effects of the consequences of use take effect. Drug addictions, alcoholism are from Spiritual sickness. Even the Alcoholics Anonymous book states it as so.

    Spirituality is a like like health, there’s a good healthy spirituality and a poor or sick spirituality. It’s where man takes it too. Over time God makes us aware of the level of sickness. Even in Ye Ole Testament, God had to break or bend the Stiff necks of His people. Most people reach a stage where they realize they can’t do what they do and have a quality of life. Basically mood altering substances try to fill voids only forgiveness and The Joy of Christ can fill. Only Jesus Christ can change our nature.
    Suicide is a from of deep spiritual sickness, they belieive God can help them, and do not ask.

    Mat 5:3 “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

    [quote:2j5gf6y1]David guzik commentary On Matt 5:3

    [url:2j5gf6y1]http://www.blueletterbible.org/commentaries/comm_view.cfm?AuthorID=2&contentID=7869&commInfo=31&topic=Matthew&ar=Mat_5_3[/url:2j5gf6y1]

    The poor in spirit recognize that they have no spiritual “assets.” They know they are spiritually bankrupt..Those who are poor in spirit, so poor they must beg, are rewarded. They receive the kingdom of heaven, and poverty of spirit is an absolute prerequisite for receiving the kingdom of heaven, because as long as we harbor illusions about our own spiritual resources we will never receive from God what we absolutely need to be saved. .. The godly reaction to poverty of spirit: mourning.[/quote:2j5gf6y1]
    God can use our own addictions to turn our hearts to Him. If we heed His help.. to turn our lives to him… God waited till moses turn toward him before he call him:

    Exd 3:3,4 And [b:2j5gf6y1]Moses said, “I will turn aside and see this great sight,[/b:2j5gf6y1] why the bush is not burnt.”
    When [b:2j5gf6y1]the LORD saw that he turned aside to see, God called to him out of the bush,[/b:2j5gf6y1] “Moses, Moses!” And he said, “Here am I”

    Wrote this several years ago in another Christian forum:

    It is said, “Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.”

    The Church deemed it a sin, because it believes in the sanctity of Life, the sanctity of the human body, which God has created.

    Depression, addictions are symptoms of deeper problems. They are the bitter fruit of a spiritual sickness; those that are not right with God are not right in spirit; or with themselves. Misery is not having enough as addiction goes. Christ came to bless the poor in spirit, a person who commits suicide is a victim of emotional ‘cancer’ or ‘stroke’ a breakdown of the emotional immune-system, and emotioanl/ spiritual fatality.

    God is infinitely more understanding than we are, and God’s hands are infinitely safer and more gentle than our own. We need not worry about the fate of anyone no matter the cause of death, who exits this world honest, oversensitive, gentle, overwrought, and emotionally- crushed. God’s understanding and compassion exceed our own.

    It can be too easy to be haunted with the thought, “If only I had been there,” rarely, would this have made a difference. In deed, most of the time, we weren’t there for the exact reason the person who fell l victim to this disease ; They did not want us there. they picked the moment, the spot, and the means precisely so that we wouldn’t be there.

    Suicide is a spiritual disease that picks its victims precisely in such a way as to exclude others and their attentiveness.

    Suicide is a sickness, and there are some sicknesses all the love and all the care in the world cannot cure.

    We must trust in God’s goodness, God’s understanding, God’s power to descend to into hell, and God’s power to redeem all things even death by suicide.

    John Oxios,
    ‘Faithful to Catholic Tradition, yet open to insights of contemporary Scholarship’

    Picked this up back then also:

    Answered by Father Edward McNamara, professor of liturgy at the Regina Apostolorum Pontifical University.

    [url:2j5gf6y1]http://www.ewtn.com/library/Liturgy/zlitur106.HTM[/url:2j5gf6y1]

    Q: [b:2j5gf6y1]What is the current stand of the Church regarding the possibility of funeral Masses “in corpore presente” of persons who are said to have committed suicide?[/b:2j5gf6y1] Is it true that there already are mitigating circumstances, like the possibility of irrationality at the moment of taking one’s life (even if there was no note), whereby it would be possible to suppose that the person was not in his right mind, and that therefore it is licit to let the funeral entourage to enter a church and a funeral Mass be said? — E.C.M., Manila, Philippines

    Answer : In earlier times a person who committed suicide would often be denied funeral rites and even burial in a Church cemetery. However, some consideration has always been taken into account of the person’s mental state at the time.

    In one famous case, when Rudolph, the heir to the throne of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire, committed suicide in 1889, the medical bulletin declared evidence of “mental aberrations” so that Pope Leo XIII would grant a religious funeral and burial in the imperial crypt. Other similar concessions were probably quietly made in less sonorous cases.

    [b:2j5gf6y1]Canon law no longer specifically mentions suicide as an impediment to funeral rites or religious sepulture. [/b:2j5gf6y1]

    [b:2j5gf6y1]Canon 1184[/b:2j5gf6y1] mentions only three cases: a notorious apostate, heretic or schismatic; those who requested cremation for motives contrary to the Christian faith; and manifest sinners to whom a Church funeral cannot be granted without causing public scandal to the faithful. These restrictions apply only if there has been no sign of repentance before death.

    The local bishop weighs any doubtful cases and in practice a prudent priest should always consult with the bishop before denying a funeral Mass.

    A particular case of suicide might enter into the third case — that of a manifest and unrepentant sinner — especially if the suicide follows another grave crime such as murder.

    In most cases, however, the progress made in the study of the underlying causes of self-destruction shows that the vast majority are consequences of an accumulation of psychological factors that impede making a free and deliberative act of the will.

    Thus the general tendency is to see this extreme gesture as almost always resulting from the effects of an imbalanced mental state and, as a consequence, it is no longer forbidden to hold a funeral rite for a person who has committed this gesture although each case must still be studied on its merits.

    Finally, it makes little difference, from the viewpoint of liturgical law, whether the body is present or not. If someone is denied a Church funeral, this applies to all public ceremonies although it does not impede the celebration of private Masses for the soul of the deceased.

    The same principle applies to funeral Masses of those whose body is unavailable for burial due to loss or destruction. Certainly the rites are different when the body is present or absent, but the Church’s public intercession for the deceased is equally manifest in both cases. ZE05111522

    God bless,
    john

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