If I’m not Catholic, am I going to hell?

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This topic contains 30 replies, has 10 voices, and was last updated by  Andres Ortiz 8 years, 6 months ago.

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  • #1241

    herkman
    Member

    If I’m not Catholic, am I going to hell?

    #6114

    weather
    Member

    My personal opinion NO!! I dont think only CATHOLIC’S go to heaven,if you follow the 10 commandments and understand God will forgive any of your sins(if your truely sorry for them),also you will be judged of your earthly doings(which I think is most important),such as helping people in need(even if you don’t know them)

    #6121

    Benedict
    Member

    No one but God knows if you are going to hell, Catholic or not.

    #6133

    herkman
    Member

    [quote:spz8h3kb]No one but God knows if you are going to hell, Catholic or not.[/quote:spz8h3kb]

    Is it [i:spz8h3kb]possible[/i:spz8h3kb] for a non-catholic to enter into heaven?

    #6140

    Benedict
    Member

    For someone who was not an express and avowed member of the Catholic Church on earth: of course.

    But once you get into heaven, everyone is Catholic. <img src=” title=”Wink” />

    #6158

    herkman
    Member

    [quote:3t6qdyid]But once you get into heaven, everyone is Catholic. <img src=” title=”Wink” />[/quote:3t6qdyid]

    Ha-ha…

    #6172

    Te Deum
    Member

    Though, Herkman, I must warn you that [i:390hexuh]there’s no salvation outside the Church[/i:390hexuh].

    For those people who haven’t been in anyway in contact with the Catholic Church and her teachings, God may save them through His infinite grace. As for those people who have been in contact with the Church and that reject it (therefore rejecting Christ and His sacrifice), I’m afraid that things might get tricky… <img src=” title=”Sad” />

    I’m sure that [i:390hexuh]a priori[/i:390hexuh] the orthodox may be saved. I’m not that sure about protestants, though. Surely, no one can really say that he or she is going to be saved, but we catholics have the assurance that, at least, we’re within God’s fold – His Church – and therefore with all the tools at hand for salvation.

    The fact is, the true and full recipient of Faith is found in the Church that Christ build here on earth upon Peter, the rock. That One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that we profess to believe in anytime we say the Creed, is no more than the Catholic Church.

    #6183

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    [quote:1l79qudf]but we catholics have the assurance that, at least, we’re within God’s fold – His Church – and therefore with all the tools at hand for salvation.[/quote:1l79qudf]
    Sure we are, but simply because one is Catholic is not a guarantee of salvation. Onw must believe with a true heart and [i:1l79qudf]do[/i:1l79qudf] the will of the Father.

    Interesting that you bring up no salvation outside the Church. The Catechism refers to non-Catholic Christian groups as “ecclesial communities” that are in special relationship to the Church. I’m fairly certain that it includes those groups as “within the Church” but not exactly in the inner circle.

    #6195

    Te Deum
    Member

    [quote:129u57y3]Sure we are, but simply because one is Catholic is not a guarantee of salvation. Onw must believe with a true heart and [i:129u57y3]do[/i:129u57y3] the will of the Father.[/quote:129u57y3]

    That’s precisely what I said: being catholic is not an automatic guarantee of salvation. Any catholic knows that. However, to be part of the Church is to have at one’s disposal the full means to salvation, not available at any other church or religion.

    The ¬´no salvation outside the Church¬ª belief has been sound Church doctrine as far as I know – it is the necessity to come into the Church’s fold that can lead you into salvation, not otherwise.

    #6211

    herkman
    Member

    [quote:3u7aeazy]That One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church that we profess to believe in anytime we say the Creed, is no more than the Catholic Church.[/quote:3u7aeazy]

    In the creed, ‘Catholic’ is used as an adjective, [i:3u7aeazy]not[/i:3u7aeazy] a noun.

    #6212

    herkman
    Member

    [quote:2y7toizu][quote:2y7toizu]Sure we are, but simply because one is Catholic is not a guarantee of salvation. Onw must believe with a true heart and [i:2y7toizu]do[/i:2y7toizu] the will of the Father.[/quote:2y7toizu]

    That’s precisely what I said: being catholic is not an automatic guarantee of salvation. Any catholic knows that. However, to be part of the Church is to have at one’s disposal the full means to salvation, not available at any other church or religion.

    The ¬´no salvation outside the Church¬ª belief has been sound Church doctrine as far as I know – it is the necessity to come into the Church’s fold that can lead you into salvation, not otherwise.[/quote:2y7toizu]

    Solus Christi… Anyway, so do you not believe in eternal security?

    #6216

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    [quote:49pn9o01]Solus Christi… Anyway, so do you not believe in eternal security?[/quote:49pn9o01]

    What is eternal security?

    #6218

    Accipio
    Member

    herkman-

    There are really 2 main Magesterial documents concerning the idea of non-Catholics attaining salvation – one being a Bull written by Pope Boniface 8th by the name of “Unum Sanctum” in 1302 – and the other being the Vatican 2 council document Dogmatic Constitution On The Church (Lumen Gentium). Boniface says in Unum Sanctum:

    [quote:4z6pfzk8]”That there is only One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church we are compelled by faith to believe and hold, and we firmly believe in her and sincerely confess her, outside of whom there is neither salvation nor remission of sins…..Furthermore we declare, state and define that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of all human beings that they submit to the Roman Pontiff.”[/quote:4z6pfzk8]

    Lumen Gentium (section 16) reads:

    [quote:4z6pfzk8]”Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience — those too may achieve eternal salvation.”[/quote:4z6pfzk8]

    While the earlier statement by Boniface defines the doctrine, Vatican 2 clarified and more fully explained it’s application in the life of the Church. You can read Unum Sanctum in full here:

    [url:4z6pfzk8]http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Bon08/B8unam.htm[/url:4z6pfzk8]

    You can also find Vatican 2’s Lumen Gentium here:

    [url:4z6pfzk8]http://www.vatican.va/archive/hist_councils/ii_vatican_council/documents/vat-ii_const_19641121_lumen-gentium_en.html[/url:4z6pfzk8]

    As far as eternal security goes, I’m assuming you mean the assurance of salvation – ‘knowing’ that you are saved and are going to heaven. As far as that goes, no, Catholics do not believe in assurance of salvation. We believe, as Scripture says that “[i:4z6pfzk8]He who endures to the end will be saved[/i:4z6pfzk8]”(Matt 24:13). We have to stand fast in our faith and constantly strive for goodness – Paul notes this well in Romans 11:21-22: [i:4z6pfzk8]For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you. Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.[/i:4z6pfzk8]

    #6240

    Benedict
    Member

    [quote:gf78vcud]In the creed, ‘Catholic’ is used as an adjective, [i:gf78vcud]not[/i:gf78vcud] a noun.[/quote:gf78vcud]
    It is an adjective in ‘Catholic Church’ as well.

    [quote:gf78vcud]Anyway, so do you not believe in eternal security?[/quote:gf78vcud]
    No. The Bible teaches against (the general understanding of) eternal security, so I reject it.

    [quote:gf78vcud]What is eternal security?[/quote:gf78vcud]
    Once saved, always saved, the doctrine that led me out of Baptism.

    #6241

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster

    [quote:1z5whl12][quote:1z5whl12]What is eternal security?[/quote:1z5whl12]
    Once saved, always saved, the doctrine that led me out of Baptism.[/quote:1z5whl12]

    I know, I just wanted him to explain it so I could debunk it. <img src=” title=”Wink” />

    #6488

    Fred
    Member

    Peace be with all!

    [quote:2aluijtg]If I’m not Catholic, am I going to hell?[/quote:2aluijtg]

    According to the [b:2aluijtg]”Dogmatic Constitution on the Church – Lumen Gentium” (1964)[/b:2aluijtg] from the[b:2aluijtg] Second Vatican Ecumenical Council [/b:2aluijtg][i:2aluijtg](Vatican II as it is more commonly know)[/i:2aluijtg] states the following:

    [quote:2aluijtg]15. The Church recognizes that in many ways she is linked with those who, being baptized, are honored with the name of Christian, though they do not profess the faith in its entirety or do not preserve unity of communion with the successor of Peter. (14*) For there are many who honor Sacred Scripture, taking it as a norm of belief and a pattern of life, and who show a sincere zeal. They lovingly believe in God the Father Almighty and in Christ, the Son of God and Saviour. (15*) They are consecrated by baptism, in which they are united with Christ. They also recognize and accept other sacraments within their own Churches or ecclesiastical communities. Many of them rejoice in the episcopate, celebrate the Holy Eucharist and cultivate devotion toward the Virgin Mother of God.(16*) They also share with us in prayer and other spiritual benefits. Likewise we can say that in some real way they are joined with us in the Holy Spirit, for to them too He gives His gifts and graces whereby He is operative among them with His sanctifying power. Some indeed He has strengthened to the extent of the shedding of their blood. In all of Christ’s disciples the Spirit arouses the desire to be peacefully united, in the manner determined by Christ, as one flock under one shepherd, and He prompts them to pursue this end. (17*) Mother Church never ceases to pray, hope and work that this may come about. She exhorts her children to purification and renewal so that the sign of Christ may shine more brightly over the face of the earth.

    16. Finally, those who have not yet received the Gospel are related in various ways to the people of God.(18*) In the first place we must recall the people to whom the testament and the promises were given and from whom Christ was born according to the flesh.(125) On account of their fathers this people remains most dear to God, for God does not repent of the gifts He makes nor of the calls He issues.(126); But the plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the first place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and merciful God, who on the last day will judge mankind. Nor is God far distant from those who in shadows and images seek the unknown God, for it is He who gives to all men life and breath and all things,(127) and as Saviour wills that all men be saved.(128) Those also can attain to salvation who through no fault of their own do not know the Gospel of Christ or His Church, yet sincerely seek God and moved by grace strive by their deeds to do His will as it is known to them through the dictates of conscience.(19*) Nor does Divine Providence deny the helps necessary for salvation to those who, without blame on their part, have not yet arrived at an explicit knowledge of God and with His grace strive to live a good life. Whatever good or truth is found amongst them is looked upon by the Church as a preparation for the Gospel.(20*) She knows that it is given by Him who enlightens all men so that they may finally have life. But often men, deceived by the Evil One, have become vain in their reasonings and have exchanged the truth of God for a lie, serving the creature rather than the Creator.(129) Or some there are who, living and dying in this world without God, are exposed to final despair. Wherefore to promote the glory of God and procure the salvation of all of these, and mindful of the command of the Lord, “Preach the Gospel to every creature”,(130) the Church fosters the missions with care and attention.[/quote:2aluijtg]

    To sum it up no we do not believe you are going to Hell. We believe you may not be experiencing the Fullness of Christ’s Church, as established and with Apostolic Authority. And we pray that Christ’s Church will be one and that all his Children are fully in union with his Church.

    God Bless!

    #6490

    gesundheit
    Member

    amen, well put.

    #7637

    LARobert
    Participant

    This brings up the problem of Fr. Leonard Feeney. Fr. Feeney a Jesuit who defined the statement “Outside of the Church (Catholic) there is no salvation” in a very Narrow way. He taught that only a baptized Roman Catholic in the state of Grace would be saved. This very narrow interpretation was condemned by Pope Pius XII, and by the Holy Office, to read a good history of the controversy read Fr. Most’s article at

    [url:3rssy0eu]http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/FEENEY.TXT[/url:3rssy0eu]

    #7640

    weather
    Member

    [quote:3b74wee2]This brings up the problem of Fr. Leonard Feeney. Fr. Feeney a Jesuit who defined the statement “Outside of the Church (Catholic) there is no salvation” in a very Narrow way. He taught that only a baptized Roman Catholic in the state of Grace would be saved. This very narrow interpretation was condemned by Pope Pius XII, and by the Holy Office, to read a good history of the controversy read Fr. Most’s article at

    [url:3b74wee2]http://www.ewtn.com/library/SCRIPTUR/FEENEY.TXT[/url:3b74wee2][/quote:3b74wee2]

    I was baptize in a Lutheran church but became a Catholic in 1959,I thought ALL people when baptize(no matter what religion)were freed of all sins and at grace with God.That priest must have really been a old timer.

    #7641

    LARobert
    Participant

    A valid baptism is a valid baptism, be it by a Lutheran minister or anyone else. The fact is there is only one baptism, it makes one a member of the Catholic Church, even though moments later one may adhere to the errors of other Christian sects and become a follower of that sect. That you remedied when you became a Catholic and abjured (rejected publicly) the errors of Luther, and embraced the Catholic Faith. [u:185wnr7w][b:185wnr7w]A belated and hearty welcome. [/b:185wnr7w][/u:185wnr7w]
    Baptism does remit sin, original and actual, but only those sins already committed. It predisposes us to recieve grace in order to avoid sin, and to have contrition in order to repent any we commit after we are baptised. In the early Church the penances for sins sins commited after baptism where so severe (compaired to the penances of our day) that some people postponed baptism until their deathbeds, (Emperor Constantine being one example)

    Fr. Feeney was not simply an old timer, but he was excommunicated by the Holy Office, (directed to do so by Pope Pius XII) for his denial of Invincible Ignorance. Invincible Ignorance is the position that those people who have not had the chance to hear the Good News of Christ Jesus, (Pagans in Africa as an example) would be either judged on Natural Law, or be given knowledge of Christ Jesus and the opportunity to make a choice for the truth or to reject the truth. It also extended to those baptized Christians who had been raised with a predjudice against the Roman Catholic Church and the teachings of the Church that made it impossible for them to hear the truth. They too would be judged by God according to what they knew and how they had conducted their lives, as they where unable to openly and honestly hear the Truth. This also brings up the theological opinion of Limbo, ie. a state of perfect natural happiness in which all who had not been baptized would exist for all eternity if they chose the truth.

    Fr. Feeney also denied the Baptism of Blood, and the Baptism of Desire. Two other forms of Baptism that the Early Church recognized. In B. of Blood, a person who had not yet been baptized with water, (remember the process that adults went through in the early Church leading to baptism could take a year or more.) If someone was identified as being a catechumen or to hold Christian belief, and was martyred before he or she could be baptized, the Church accepted the martyrdom as a form of baptism. If someone died without baptism (aside from martyrdom) but had the desire to be baptized they too where considered as having been baptized because of their desire. It must be stressed though that to postpone a baptism without just cause can endanger ones soul, and may not suffice for B of Desire, in which case we do have to defer to God’s Mercy, and reserve judgement to God.

    Now the Church has never officially proclaimed that anyone in particular is in Hell. Fr. Feeney stated anyone who was not a Catholic would surely be in Hell. For his disobedience to his superiors on other matters and his rejection that Invincible Ignorance, and the Baptisms of Desire and Blood.

    There are still followers of Fr. Feeney around today who deny that his excommunication was valid, and for one group that was recieved back into the Church in (I believe) the late 1970’s, still claim he got in trouble for his disobedience to his superiors, and not for the postion he held.

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