How come catholicism explicitly goes against 1 Timothy 4:1-5

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  • #1171

    But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times [b:doqj58wx]some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons[/b:doqj58wx], by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron, [b:doqj58wx]men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods[/b:doqj58wx], which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created, by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it is received with gratitude; for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.

    1 Timothy 4:1-5

    #5656

    Victor
    Member

    I really do hope you are here for a charitable discussion. <img src=” title=”Neutral” />
    If you are, welcome to the forum. <img src=” title=”Smile” />

    [quote:3ilws7wb]But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,[/quote:3ilws7wb]

    Verses like this only turns into a finger pointing match.

    [quote:3ilws7wb]men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods, which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. For everything created, by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected, if it is received with gratitude; for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.[/quote:3ilws7wb]

    I won’t duplicate the great efforts of Catholic Answers:

    [color=darkred:3ilws7wb]Does the Catholic Church forbid marriage? Not at all. It forbids marriage to no one.

    The charge could hardly be more absurd since the Catholic Church regards marriage as a sacrament. In the Catholic view, marriage is a great blessing; it is simply not for everyone. Some may renounce marriage for purposes of religion. Christ himself indicated this when he said that some “have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven” (Matt. 19:12). [In context, Christ may mean those who have refused to remarry lest they commit adultery (see Matt. 19:9-11), but the principle applies in other contexts as well. Some people, for the sake of the kingdom, refuse to marry and raise a family.].[/color:3ilws7wb]

    So who is this talking about? Several movements in Church history have promoted these teachings, the two most notable examples being the Manicheans and the Albigensians. They viewed matter as intrinsically evil and consequently held a dim view of physical pleasures, including indulging in certain foods. This is clearly not talking about the Catholic Church. Hope that helped.

    ~Victor

    #5668

    Benedict
    Member

    Even more notable than the Manicheans and Albigensians were the people that St. Paul was warning Timothy about specifically – the Gnostics. The Gnostics viewed the material universe as evil, as it was created by the Demiurge (a godlike being), and shunned goods such as marriage and eating for that reason.

    #5677

    I am a bible believing Christian – I have no religion in which I have to defend every teaching that is already established. I don’t owe anything to a religion, but I owe everything to God for all the amazing things he has done for me. I read the Bible to search for truth. I have one goal and one goal only and that is to please God, and meet him in Heaven. So I always read with an extremely open mind. I like to listen and hear the best of both sides of the arguments I present. Then after I have seen both parties best arguments, with prayer and an open heart I make my decision on what I believe.

    I want to thank you for replying to my post, and not kicking me out. If Catholicism is what you bet your salvation on, it would make a lot of sense that the beliefs you have, are studied out with a open heart and prayer. I commend you on your educated answer. Nothing bothers me more than someone who bets something as important as their salvation, on “that is what my parents believed, or I am this religion because I was born as this religion, or that is what my priest, pastor, or preacher told me, or some other obvious uneducated answer.”

    This brought me some new insight on some history in which I was not aware of, and I thank you for that. Although after considering what you said about that this scripture was referencing the Gnostics. Which could very well be – I believe that this scripture is condemning the Gnostics, as well as any other religion that was to come along and practice this sort of teaching. Whoever wrote about that men would choose to be single so they can completely devout themselves to God had a good point. The problem is that Priests either are explicitly or inexplicitly told not to marry either directly or through traditions in the Catholic Church. And the key word in celibacy is “choice” when there is no choice and someone tells you that you cannot marry. Then that falls under the realms of what this scripture is talking about. The same goes with fasting, fasting is great if on your own choice you decide to fast, but not if a religion tells you it is a sin to eat meat on Fridays.

    http://www.catholic-pages.com/life/fridaymeat.asp is where it says that it is still required that you abstain from meats on Friday’s, Cannon 1251

    I appreciate you knowledge, and I hope we can study out the truth together with open hearts and open minds.

    God Bless you

    Steven

    #5678

    Benedict
    Member

    [quote:19phczo7]Whoever wrote about that men would choose to be single so they can completely devout themselves to God had a good point. The problem is that Priests either are explicitly or inexplicitly told not to marry either directly or through traditions in the Catholic Church. And the key word in celibacy is “choice” when there is no choice and someone tells you that you cannot marry.[/quote:19phczo7]
    No one is going out and forcing people to become priests. It is a choice.

    [quote:19phczo7]The same goes with fasting, fasting is great if on your own choice you decide to fast, but not if a religion tells you it is a sin to eat meat on Fridays.[/quote:19phczo7]
    Where does the Church say it is a sin to eat meat on Fridays?

    The Church is the pillar and ground of truth, established by Jesus and given to us as a guide and keepsafe. Since the very beginning, the Church has called for fasting in particular.

    “While they were worshiping the Lord and fasting, the Holy Spirit said, Set apart for me Barnabas and Saul for the work to which I have called them. Then after fasting and praying they laid their hands on them and sent them off.” (Acts 13, 2-3).

    “And after they had appointed elders for them in each church, with prayer and fasting they entrusted them to the Lord in whom they had come to believe.” (Acts 14, 23).

    Did the Apostles all decide for themselves to fast or do you think they arranged for everyone to fast as a group?

    Reference also the Didache, written by the early Church while St. John still lived:

    “The teaching of these words is this. Bless those who curse you, and pray for your enemies: fast for those who persecute you…Do not let your fasts be with the hypocrites. They fast on Monday and Thursday; but you will fast on Wednesday and Friday.”

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