Dissent

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  • #4883
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:2t6lidi3]NO! Salvation is NOT found otuside the Catholic Church! Other churches can HAVE part of Catholicism in them, or non-Catholics can have part of it in them, but there IS NO SALVATION outside of the Catholic Church, which the Catechism is VERY clear on.[/quote:2t6lidi3]
    Not sure what Catechism you are reading….

    819 “Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.” [color=red:2t6lidi3]Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation[/color:2t6lidi3], whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church.

    You seemed so very sure of yourself…. what a pity.

    Peace,
    Scott

    #4887
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    That is exactly what I said. There is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church, but other churches can HAVE part of Catholicism–Christ–in them.

    So before you go deriding my comments, make sure you know what they mean.

    #4890
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:3eqdvs3u]So before you go deriding my comments, make sure you know what they mean.[/quote:3eqdvs3u]
    Ummm…. sorry???

    If you are are in agreement with the Catechism, what was the point of your post?
    [quote:3eqdvs3u]NO! Salvation is NOT found otuside the Catholic Church! [/quote:3eqdvs3u]
    What exactly were you saying “NO!” to in this quote?

    #4892
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Look, I think we are basically saying the same thing here. Non-Catholics can be saved, but salvation is achieved through all that Christ has given to His Church. So you coudl easily say that Salvation is not found outside of the Catholic Church. Either way, what this has to do with the original discussion now eludes me…

    #4895
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:1y6piz74]Look, I think we are basically saying the same thing here. Non-Catholics can be saved, but salvation is achieved through all that Christ has given to His Church. So you coudl easily say that Salvation is not found outside of the Catholic Church. Either way, what this has to do with the original discussion now eludes me…[/quote:1y6piz74]
    If means of salvation are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church…. then why are dissent and the formation of conscience being viewed here as such a bad thing?

    #4898
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    No, formation of conscience is a GOOD thing. We need to FORM our conscience according to the laws of the Church. Now, if you are not IN the Church, then maybe you do not KNOW this, but I THOUGHT we were talking about Catholics forming their consciences, maybe I was wrong.

    And also, Salvation cannot be found outside of the Catholic Church if you knwo the Church is the means to salvation and yet [i:28w2d1o1]reject[/i:28w2d1o1] it.

    #4899
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:2r6iga53]No, formation of conscience is a GOOD thing. We need to FORM our conscience according to the laws of the Church. Now, if you are not IN the Church, then maybe you do not KNOW this, but I THOUGHT we were talking about Catholics forming their consciences, maybe I was wrong.[/quote:2r6iga53]
    We are talking about Catholics…. but Catholics are human too, so I’m wondering how everyone would answer the question in relation to non-Catholics.
    [quote:2r6iga53]And also, Salvation cannot be found outside of the Catholic Church if you knwo the Church is the means to salvation and yet [i:2r6iga53]reject[/i:2r6iga53] it.[/quote:2r6iga53]
    True…. but that has nothing to do with the topic. <img loading=:” title=”Question” />

    #4903
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    I am confused. I am REALLY confused. Your responses have made me believe we are just talking about two different things… so I am just goign to stop talking, lol

    #4906
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:1l3shb75]I am confused. I am REALLY confused. Your responses have made me believe we are just talking about two different things… so I am just goign to stop talking, lol[/quote:1l3shb75]
    HA!

    Maybe we’ll have more “luck” next time!

    Peace be with you,
    Scott

    #4909
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:3v5hmqkp]…. but your conscience is inseperable from the supernatural law and grace (you said so yourself)…. so how/why could/would you turn away from grace?[/quote:3v5hmqkp]

    I don’t know why [b:3v5hmqkp]I[/b:3v5hmqkp] would, I just know that I can say NO.

    [quote:3v5hmqkp]Well….. pep rally aside, I do see your point….. I hope you can see mine as well….. I do believe the “answer” is somewhere in the middle.[/quote:3v5hmqkp]

    In the middle? No I don’t see it. Please clarify.

    [quote:3v5hmqkp]If means of salvation are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church…. then why are dissent and the formation of conscience being viewed here as such a bad thing?[/quote:3v5hmqkp]

    Formation of conscience is not bad at all. What I have difficulty with is seeing how you can dissent and form your conscious at the same time. How can dissenting from the Church form your conscious?

    ~Victor

    #4920
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:pehhvij2]In the middle? No I don’t see it. Please clarify.[/quote:pehhvij2]
    Again, sorry…. I needed to sort a few things out with a particular lesson plan, and your replies (and others here) helped me out greatly.
    [quote:pehhvij2] How can dissenting from the Church form your conscious? [/quote:pehhvij2]
    It can’t.

    …. confused? HA….. again, sorry….. I needed help and you and Uncertaindrummer really helped clear up the direction I wan’t the class to take.

    I have found so few people on the net who actually know the Catholic faith, you and other members here have been a real gift from God.

    Thanks again…. I’ll need you folks in another week or so…. I pray you’ll continue to help me work things out for my class!

    Scott

    #4922
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    wha…?

    #4926
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:js4zv9ao]wha…?[/quote:js4zv9ao]
    Sorry…. I thought my last post was clear….

    In the Catechism class that I teach, I often use “confrontational” questions like this one to spur a deeper discussion of our faith.

    The dissent question, to me, was an easy one to answer….. the comments about conscience even easier…..

    I was wrong.

    The fact that no one here was even close to the answer I was looking for (it’s in the Catechism) shows me now that the question is too difficult for my class.

    Hope that clears things up…. thanks for your help, by the way.

    #4927

    Well, I’m glad y’all can remain fairly civil while I am away from home. <img loading=” title=”Wink” /> Thanks for policing yourselves.

    #4929
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    [quote:2jjealcs][quote:2jjealcs]wha…?[/quote:2jjealcs]
    Sorry…. I thought my last post was clear….

    In the Catechism class that I teach, I often use “confrontational” questions like this one to spur a deeper discussion of our faith.

    The dissent question, to me, was an easy one to answer….. the comments about conscience even easier…..

    I was wrong.

    The fact that no one here was even close to the answer I was looking for (it’s in the Catechism) shows me now that the question is too difficult for my class.

    Hope that clears things up…. thanks for your help, by the way.[/quote:2jjealcs]

    I am not exactly sure what my “answer” was, but I also know that the Cactechism speaks of us forming our own consciences…

    But, umm… yeah, sure. Anytime! lol

    #4930
    Anonymous
    Inactive

    Well Im glad we helped although I don’t feel like I did. :lol: LOL.

    ~Victor

    PS-A pleasure to have you Scott. Come more often.

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