did calvin make the same admission that the Cathlic church..

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  • #2015

    …produced the bible?
    like when luther said: “We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of GOD, that we received it from them, and that without them, we should have no knowledge of it at all.”
    did Calvin make an admission like this??? I heard someone claim it…

    #9771

    LARobert
    Participant

    Very interesting question.

    Now it is a fact that before the rupture of relations with the Church, both Dr. Luther and Calvin claimed to be trying to restore the Church to it’s original state. So it is not implausable. I’m sure if you did an internet search and could find a citation, it could be looked up in a reputable source to confirm it.

    #9774
    "LARobert":3a0qtkbo wrote:
    Now it is a fact that before the rupture of relations with the Church, both Dr. Luther and Calvin claimed to be trying to restore the Church to it’s original state[/quote:3a0qtkbo]
    do you mean they were trying to be catholic again? please explain
    and luther was a doctor of the church before his excomunication???
    #9780

    James
    Member
    "passionately_catholic":2rsbv63b wrote:
    and luther was a doctor of the church before his excomunication???[/quote:2rsbv63b]
    Luther was not a medical doctor <img src=” title=”Razz” /> Rather, he was an outstanding theologian. When he was at the University of Erfurt, he studied theology. Later, he was transferred to a monastery in Wittenberg were he continued his studies. It was in Wittenberg were Dr. Luther received his doctorate in Theology
    #9783
    "James":2yuk4k8a wrote:
    Luther was not a medical doctor <img src=” title=”Razz” />[/quote:2yuk4k8a]
    of course that’s what i meant! :lol: <img src=” title=”Wink” />
    #9784

    i got confused coz saint Thérèse of Lisieux is also a doctor so i wanted to know if it was the same with luther’s doctorate

    #9785

    LARobert
    Participant

    Earning a doctorate in Philosophy or Theology is different than being a Doctor of the Church.

    Hans Kung, who was stripped of his license to teach Catholic Theology has a Doctorate from a Catholic University. Dr. Luther was granted a doctorate in Theology, and was licensed to teach Catholic theology. When the rupture came his license was revoked, but he had earned the doctorate.

    SS. Thomas Aquinas, Bonaventure, Albert the Great, Teresa of Avila, Therese of Lisieux and others were given the title of Doctor of the Church after their deaths, not because they had all (some had) earned an academic doctorate, but because their writings have had a very profound influence on the teaching and spiritual life of the Church.

    Dr. Luther, is definatly not categorized in the same classification as the above mentioned Doctors of the Church, but that is not reason to not recognize that he did achive academic exellence while an Augustinian Friar. Lutherans would say that he did much to restore the Church to it’s original purity. While as Catholics we would disagree, that is not reason to deny his academic achivements.

    #9900

    James
    Member
    "passionately_catholic":1gee0qbn wrote:
    …produced the bible?
    like when luther said: “We are compelled to concede to the Papists that they have the Word of GOD, that we received it from them, and that without them, we should have no knowledge of it at all.”
    did Calvin make an admission like this??? I heard someone claim it…[/quote:1gee0qbn]
    passionately_catholic: I wish to know from where you received this quote. I would like to look into it further.
    #9924

    umm, luther’s quote was from his commentary on the gospel of john(at least that’s what a lot of historians and apologists say)

    as for calvin’s, well, i was listening to saint michael’s media’s podcast of “the one true faith” tv program and michael voris claimed that calvin also said something similar to that…

    #9925

    James
    Member

    Thank you <img src=” title=”Smile” /> I’ll look into it further

    #9929

    hmmm, makes me think,
    how did historians get that quote from doctor luther? was it a public sermon or written in a letter?

    i hope sir LARobert knows <img src=” title=”Very Happy” />

    #9932

    LARobert
    Participant
    "passionately_catholic":1dpr5hjn wrote:
    hmmm, makes me think,
    how did historians get that quote from doctor luther? was it a public sermon or written in a letter?

    i hope sir LARobert knows <img src=” title=”Very Happy” />[/quote:1dpr5hjn]
    Don’t know enough of Dr. Luther’s writings to say. However there are any number of statements that are quoted out of context or hobbled together on both sides.

    When I was younger, there was a statement credited to Luther that said he wrote, “God’s grace covers us like snow covers a dung hill. When we die, our souls sneak into heaven, and God looks the other way as those mounds of dung sneak in stinking but outwardly covered with snow.”

    Well the truth is that Luther did use the anology of our sinful souls being like dung hills, but there is nowhere in his writings that “God looks the other way, as they sneak into heaven.” So many people had quoted the above as if it was true, that many still believe and use the quote even though it seems to have never been written.

    There are many Anti-Catholics who have misquoted, used made up quotes, or simply quoted out of context Catholic writers to the point that they accept them as real quotes even though they are bogus.

    Both sides have done this, many have done so innocenlty because they really believe that the quotes are authentic, without checking to see if they are really true.

    #9933

    James
    Member
    "LARobert":226t3ny1 wrote:
    There are many Anti-Catholics who have misquoted, used made up quotes, or simply quoted out of context Catholic writers to the point that they accept them as real quotes even though they are bogus.[/quote:226t3ny1]
    There was a time during WWII were the Nazis misquoted Luther in order to justify their schedules. The one work that they completely took out of context was Luther’s work [u:226t3ny1][i:226t3ny1]On The Jews and Their Lies.[/i:226t3ny1][/u:226t3ny1] Same way with the Catholic Church; the Nazis manipulated everything to fit their hatred towards the minorities: The Jews mostly, but also to the Homosexuals, Gypsies, Communists, and prisoners of war.
    #9939

    LARobert
    Participant

    I did stop by one of my favorite Protestant book stores this afternoon. The English edition of the Works of Luther has three volumes dedicated to his sermons on the Gospel of St. John, and half a volume on the Epistles, so it was not an issue of just skimming and finding the quote. Lots of stuff about how Monks, nuns and bishops are servants of the Devil, and Anti-Christs though.

    #9940

    Andres Ortiz
    Keymaster
    "LARobert":3bf6mz5t wrote:
    Both sides have done this, many have done so innocenlty because they really believe that the quotes are authentic, without checking to see if they are really true.[/quote:3bf6mz5t]
    What makes it even more difficult is when so many people attribute the quote to that person it makes it impossible to determine that they didn’t say it. I think most people assume that if a quote is attributed to another person in many different places then that person actually said it.
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