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you have it right here Weathers
[quote:56bqf2wm]Ron,How can you give me a better insight on salvation that I don’t already know?I’ve been around the block quite a few more times then you.And for reading the Bible everyone interprets it different.And leaving all the Bible verses aside,THE only way to get to heaven is to believe JESUS shed his blood for us and died on the cross for everybody(and if you don’t believe this then your not a Christian)
_________________[/quote:56bqf2wm]
I don’t see how anyone could thus buy into catholicism’s traditions if they understand this muchAs 1 John 1:6 says ” if you say you believe but you walk in darkness you are a liar”
I guess you only have a superficial understanding of the Catholic religion,have you every been to a Catholic mass?I’ve been to alot of other churches(Like for funeral’s,etc) and they always seemed so incomplete(like something was missing).That is exactly what we believe,why do you think the Catholic Church has Jesus on the cross?Cause we believe he shed his blood and died for are sins.Most other denominations have a bare cross cause they believe more in Salvation rather then he died for are sins and gives use a choice if we want to be saved or not.Also the MOST important part of going to mass is to celebrate the Eucharist(thats why I can receive the body and blood of Christ every day).
PS,I was a Lutheran till 1959(so I’ve been on the otherside)
I was a sincere practicing Catholic for over 40 + years. Raised my Family that way too. But both of my kids are now saved – out of Catholicism.
You think you have Jesus in that bread? You need to learn the Bible better or you’ll swallow everything
John 6 is about believing in What Jesus did at Calvary – nothing to do with “real presence” How are you taking these things out, understanding Scrptures?
I need to go now
” title=”Sad” /> Ron,so now the thruth comes out why you are so negative against the Catholics,after 40+ years as one,something very TERRIBLE must of happened to you to leave the real Church,do you want to share your thoughts as to why you left the Catholic Church?
[quote:1e9u1l8c]I was a sincere practicing Catholic for over 40 + years. Raised my Family that way too.[/quote:1e9u1l8c]
Ron, you have yet to demonstrate even a rudimentary understanding of actual Catholic doctrine and practice.You may have been Catholic in name. You may have been sincere. But you were and still are seriously misinformed about Catholicism and obstinate in that igorance, as evidenced by your posts on this board.
Weathers said:
[quote:3f5g28fd]
Ron,so now the thruth comes out why you are so negative against the Catholics,after 40+ years as one,something very TERRIBLE must of happened to you to leave the real Church,do you want to share your thoughts as to why you left the Catholic Church?
_________________ [/quote:3f5g28fd]Nothing terrible happened to me, I just got serious about finding out what the Bible actually said — and as I said earlier “faith comes by hearing the Gospel”” through the Bible our faith grows” and “we can know the truth and the truth will set us free”
All three quotes are Bible verses
and at the same time I was actually taking Catholic Bible studies – the two didn’t match up – and since then it is clear to me how deceptive it really is.
” title=”Wink” /> I’ve been a practiceing Catholic for 47 years and nothing would make do a about face like you did after 40+ years,there had to be something else besides Bible study that made you do this,[color=red:12qaw46f]come clean now[/color:12qaw46f].Were you a practiceing Catholic or just one by name?
I was a plain ordinary practicing Catholic including taking my children to stations during Lent
Why is that so unbelievable? I find it quite ordinary for many others that decided to see just what God tells us in His word including former priests like the following example
Why could you not find the word of God in the Catholic Church,now your taking the advise of former priests(why they are FORMER I dont care)and other sinful people.Some day I hope you come back to the Catholic Church the one that was created by Jesus(I think or hope you still believe this)all others were made by sinful people,Jesus will always welcome you and your family back with open arms.I’m just guessing but you said you “were” a Catholic for 40+ years and I assume your parents were devout Catholics so you must be about 55 is that correct?I’m 69.
Weathers two points – first about what you said:
[quote:10lqa4uh]
Why could you not find the word of God in the Catholic Church,now your taking the advise of former priests(why they are FORMER I dont care)and other sinful people.Some day I hope you come back to the Catholic Church the one that was created by Jesus(I think or hope you still believe this)all others were made by sinful people,Jesus will always welcome you and your family back with open arms.I’m just guessing but you said you “were” a Catholic for 40+ years and I assume your parents were devout Catholics so you must be about 55 is that correct?I’m 69.[/quote:10lqa4uh]Whatever church Jesus started had nothing to do with todays Roman Catholic Church and I Know for my eternity rests in this, that I still am part of His Church and I will never, ever, be part of your church. No doubt you’d tell me Jesus started it aas Matthew 16:18 shows- Wrong!!
They can’t even get that straight for Peter had just said that Jesus was the Messiah. It is upon that fact that Jesus said He would build His Church-
Furthermore Scriptures show that Jesus is the Rock not Peter.the other thing is correct I am 55
I know who is right here so no thank you to those open arms, now I invite you to my website if you have questions or even that Berean Beacon site will get you stated right.
The main reason for confession to a priest is that we are dealing with a sacrament, a way in which Christ set up a means for dispensing grace, ‘Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven’ (see John 20:22-23). The priest cannot really be said to forgive sins by the power of [color=red:2co85yxi]Christ[/color:2co85yxi], if he doesn’t know what the sins are. In the sacrament it is [color=red:2co85yxi]Christ who forgives[/color:2co85yxi]. Since Christ is ascended into heaven, we would not be able to see him or hear his voice forgiving us. But he acts in the person of the priest. When the priest says, ‘I absolve you from your sins,’ he is doing so in [color=red:2co85yxi]Christ’s name [/color:2co85yxi]and place; we hear the actual words of forgiveness, and the sin is removed forever.
” title=”Confused” /> [color=blue:2co85yxi]Ron,I assume you went to confession in your 30 or so years as being a Catholic(which you told me),what radical movement made you drift from the truth and go on the side road??[/color:2co85yxi]
Weathers have you ever read Hebrews 7?
[color=darkred:1j9csw6l][b:1j9csw6l]23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who isholy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself[/b:1j9csw6l][/color:1j9csw6l]Notce how Jesus did away with sacrificial priests because He is our intercessor? In fact Peter tells us all believers are now priests Biblically
speaking. But your church takes John 20:23 and with a little twisting of it comes up with the unbelievable interpretation of Men speak as Christ’s representative at confessions.you then say:
[quote:1j9csw6l] Ron,I assume you went to confession in your 30 or so years as being a Catholic(which you told me),what radical movement made you drift from the truth and go on the side road?? [/quote:1j9csw6l]I thought I answered this – I didn’t leave the truth, only as you put it, but actually found out the truth by Scriptures (As Romans says faith comes by hearing the word – chapter 10 and it has the power to save vs 1:16)
As John tells the readers in Chapter 8:vs 31+32 -[color=darkred:1j9csw6l][b:1j9csw6l]Then Jesus said to those Jews who believed Him, “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.” [/b:1j9csw6l][/color:1j9csw6l]
Notice I give you the verses, not my interpretation. It speaks for itself.
Or I could show you this as well -[color=darkred:1j9csw6l][quote:1j9csw6l] And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues[/quote:1j9csw6l][/color:1j9csw6l]
You always by pass question’s with 10 Bible verse’s(how come?),question from last nite is below.
” title=”Confused” /> [color=blue:1ea863dr]Ron,I assume you went to confession in your 30 or so years as being a Catholic(which you told me),what radical movement made you drift from the truth and go on the side road??[/color:1ea863dr]
Mr. Weathers, I wasn’t sure how to answer this because it says:
[quote:38eb00fs]what radical movement made you drift from the truth[/quote:38eb00fs]
Since I “once was lost, but now I’m found” – opps wrong place for that, anyways, since I have the truth, there’s no need for me to answer, is there!
” title=”Wink” />
What is confession?
Confession has two parts.First,that we confess our sins,and
second, that we receive absolution, that is, forgiveness, from the
pastor as from God Himself,not doubting, but firmly believing
that by it our sins are forgiven before God in heaven.1
It is hard to say,”I was wrong. I am sorry. Forgive me.”
God’s Word makes it clear that the “wages of sin is death”
(Rom.6:23).In confession and absolution,God’s Word is having
its way with us,moving us to confess the truth about ourselves
and our need for His forgiveness.
Because of Jesus Christ, confession and absolution is a
blessed, joyful,happy exchange! “For our sake He made Him to
be sin,who knew no sin,so that in Him we might become the
righteousness of God”(2 Cor. 5:21).When Jesus hung on the
cross,He became sin for us.He was the ransom for sin.God
poured out His just wrath on Christ.Christ won peace between
God and man. In confession,Christ takes the burden of our sin
and gives us in exchange His complete forgiveness and love.
Absolution is the ongoing work of Holy Baptism,in which
our old,sinful nature in Adam is drowned and the new man in
Christ arises.Through Holy Absolution we receive “the gift of
God,”which is forgiveness of sins and “eternal life in Christ
Jesus our Lord”(Rom.6:23).What sins should we confess?
Before God we should plead guilty of all sins, even those we
are not aware of,as we do in the Lord’s Prayer; but before the pastor
we should confess only those sins which we know and feel in
our hearts.Which are these? Consider your place in life according
to the Ten Commandments:Are you a father,mother, son,
daughter,husband,wife,or worker? Have you been disobedient,
unfaithful,or lazy? Have you been hot-tempered, rude,or quarrelsome?
Have you hurt someone by your words or deeds? Have
you stolen,been negligent,wasted anything or done any harm?
Confessing our sins in the Divine Service, we hear the
Lord’s servant, our pastor, absolve our sins in the name of
Christ.Privately,we go to the pastor for confession and absolution
precisely for those sins we are most aware of and those
sins that are particularly troubling to us.These we confess to
our pastor and hear the words of Christ,”I forgive you.”
By what authority does the church forgive sins?
The Office of the Keys is that special authority which Christ
http://www.lcms.org/graphics/assets/med … lution.pdf
Mr. Weathers writes:
[quote:30435hsc]What is confession?[/quote:30435hsc]
and gives the Catholic view as follows[quote:30435hsc]Confession has two parts.First,that we confess our sins,and
second, that we receive absolution, that is, forgiveness, from the
pastor as from God Himself,not doubting, but firmly believing
that by it our sins are forgiven before God in heaven.[/quote:30435hsc]
The first is Biblical but not the second part as no one can forgive sins but God!
[quote:30435hsc]
1 It is hard to say,”I was wrong. I am sorry. Forgive me.”
God’s Word makes it clear that the “wages of sin is death”
(Rom.6:23).[/quote:30435hsc]
Yes and the Bible is clear that there is only one solution for sins – trusting what Jesus did at Calvary alone takes away sins![quote:30435hsc]In confession and absolution,God’s Word is having
its way with us,moving us to confess the truth about ourselves
and our need for His forgiveness. [/quote:30435hsc]
To confess our ned for forgiveness is Biblical, but not to a priest because Jesus is our High Priest – He did away with the sacramental priesthood 2000 years ago – Hebrews 7:23-27 says [i:30435hsc][color=red:30435hsc]23 Also there were many priests, because they were prevented by death from continuing. 24 But He, because He continues forever, has an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Therefore He is also able to save to the uttermost those who come to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them.
26 For such a High Priest was fitting for us, who isholy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and has become higher than the heavens; 27 who does not need daily, as those high priests, to offer up sacrifices, first for His own sins and then for the people’s, for this He did once for all when He offered up Himself.[/color:30435hsc][/i:30435hsc][quote:30435hsc]Because of Jesus Christ, confession and absolution is a
blessed, joyful,happy exchange! “For our sake He made Him to
be sin,who knew no sin,so that in Him we might become the
righteousness of God”(2 Cor. 5:21).When Jesus hung on the
cross,He became sin for us.He was the ransom for sin.God
poured out His just wrath on Christ.Christ won peace between
God and man.[/quote:30435hsc]
That us correct, but how do you then explain it as to be? –
[quote:30435hsc]
In confession,Christ takes the burden of our sin
and gives us in exchange His complete forgiveness and love. [/quote:30435hsc]
this would happen only by accepting what He did at Calvary not by your act of going to a priest for Scriptures tell us clearly – Titus 3:5 –
[i:30435hsc][color=red:30435hsc] [b:30435hsc][u:30435hsc]not by works of righteousness which we have done[/u:30435hsc][/b:30435hsc], but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,[/color:30435hsc][/i:30435hsc]
[quote:30435hsc]
Absolution is the ongoing work of Holy Baptism,in which
our old,sinful nature in Adam is drowned and the new man in
Christ arises.[/quote:30435hsc]
Again you think a sacrament cleanses you instead of what Jesus did?
[quote:30435hsc]
Through Holy Absolution we receive “the gift of
God,”which is forgiveness of sins and “eternal life in Christ
Jesus our Lord”(Rom.6:23). [/quote:30435hsc]
Yes but only by trusting in what He “finished” on the cross, not by your sacraments!
[quote:30435hsc]
What sins should we confess?
Before God we should plead guilty of all sins, even those we
are not aware of,as we do in the Lord’s Prayer; but before the pastor
we should confess only those sins which we know and feel in
our hearts.[/quote:30435hsc]
How about reading what is sinful as in 1 Cotrinthians 6:0+10 and Ephesians 5:3-5?
[quote:30435hsc]Which are these? Consider your place in life according
to the Ten Commandments:Are you a father,mother, son,
daughter,husband,wife,or worker? Have you been disobedient,
unfaithful,or lazy? Have you been hot-tempered, rude,or quarrelsome?
Have you hurt someone by your words or deeds? Have
you stolen,been negligent,wasted anything or done any harm? [/quote:30435hsc]
and don’t forget praying to Mary or any one but Jesus is idolatry
[quote:30435hsc]
Confessing our sins in the Divine Service, we hear the
Lord’s servant, our pastor, absolve our sins in the name of
Christ.Privately,we go to the pastor for confession and absolution
precisely for those sins we are most aware of and those
sins that are particularly troubling to us.These we confess to
our pastor and hear the words of Christ,”I forgive you.” [/quote:30435hsc]
I think you are in for a surprise for your pastor cannot absolve sins![quote:30435hsc]By what authority does the church forgive sins?
The Office of the Keys is that special authority which Christ [/quote:30435hsc]
nothing like taking a twist of Scripture to “prove” your point
– sorry but the key is knowing God’s way through God’s Word as He said
[i:30435hsc][b:30435hsc]”You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God.[/b:30435hsc][/i:30435hsc] Matthew 22:29
[color=red:fyu2u8sw]You bypassed my question with some Bible verses,You must have believe in confession at one time,please answer previous question listed below I asked you about 2 weeks ago.[/color:fyu2u8sw][color=blue:fyu2u8sw]
Ron,I assume you went to confession in your 30 or so years as being a Catholic(which you told me),[/color:fyu2u8sw]
Yes Mr Weathers
[quote:2xv4ivg3]Ron,I assume you went to confession in your 30 or so years as being a Catholic(which you told me),[/quote:2xv4ivg3]
Of course! I was a devout Catholicfor over 40 years, and I didn’t know what God’s word said. Why do you ask?
I was just curious why it took over 40 years to find out [color=red:1tldnlk8] “I didn’t know what God’s word said”[/color:1tldnlk8],at the maximum I would have found this out in less then 5 years.I still believe there was another under lying cause why you left,anyhow so be it.
Well I’ve told you, I started to read God’s word and at the same time I took a couple catechism classes – my story is like many others that have left the Catholic Church, although you won’t believe this, I saw the difference from your way and God’s way and that is why I began my mimistry. Now twelve years later – it is so very clear.
” title=”Sad” /> Ron,so now the thruth comes out why you are so negative against the Catholics,after 40+ years as one,something very TERRIBLE must of happened to you to leave the real Church,do you want to share your thoughts as to why you left the Catholic Church?
” title=”Wink” /> I’ve been a practiceing Catholic for 47 years and nothing would make do a about face like you did after 40+ years,there had to be something else besides Bible study that made you do this,[color=red:12qaw46f]come clean now[/color:12qaw46f].Were you a practiceing Catholic or just one by name?
” title=”Confused” /> [color=blue:2co85yxi]Ron,I assume you went to confession in your 30 or so years as being a Catholic(which you told me),what radical movement made you drift from the truth and go on the side road??[/color:2co85yxi]- You must be logged in to reply to this topic.