May 16, 2007 at 5:33 pm #1676
[color=darkred:3q53jo86]Can it happen? I was just thinking how the first, second, and third century Christians saw this. Not having a complete canon, there was indeed books taking out and added from their POV.
In light of the Bible telling us not to add or take away, how do you see them viewing those verses that warn of it? How do they apply now?[/color:3q53jo86]May 16, 2007 at 6:26 pm #8323
[quote:3hj4b2x0]In light of the Bible telling us not to add or take away, how do you see them viewing those verses that warn of it? How do they apply now?[/quote:3hj4b2x0]
When St. John wrote those verses, the Canon of the Scriptures was neither fully developed nor where all the books written, the Bible, as we know it did not exist. True most of the books existed, but the Bible as a compilation of those books bound togeather was something that did not occur to people. It was more than 200 years later when questions had to be answered as to what did and did not constitute inpired writings that a Council of Catholic Bishops submitted to the Pope for his approval the determinations of the Council.
Historically, at least until the 16th Century when Protestants made radical departures from what had always been believed about the Scriptures, the warning about adding or deleting from “This Book” was believed to mean, and by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and some other Christian scholars a prohibition of adding to or deleting anything from that particular book. The grouping of the books, which we have in the Bible just did not exist. Even the Jews had not decided on a formal Canon aside from Torah, (Pentatuch, or the first five books of what Christians call the Old Testament) Some accepted Daniel, others did not.
One fatal error that is made regarding the Bible, is to consider it one book. Bible comes from the greek, Biblios, meaning Books, or Collection of Books. All of them are inspired, (from the Greek, Breathed into by God) They all recount the development over time of salvation history. But they remain individual books, written by individual writers inspired by the same source, (God).May 17, 2007 at 7:49 pm #8331
[quote:2oskz3dv]…”This Book” was believed to mean, and by Catholics, Eastern Orthodox and some other Christian scholars a prohibition of adding to or deleting anything from that particular book….[/quote:2oskz3dv]
[color=red:2oskz3dv]**Rubs hands to play devils advocate**[/color:2oskz3dv]
[color=darkred:2oskz3dv]So, what do you make of those books that specifically don’t warn of “taking away or adding”? Does that give us a green light to do so unless otherwise specified?[/color:2oskz3dv]May 21, 2007 at 5:58 am #8351
Even though we have several books of the Bible they are all united. So if one book says “do not add” it means “do not add” to Divine Revelation and not just “do not add” to that one book.
The Canon was set a long time ago and we cannot add or subtract from it:
The Council of Hippo in 393 AD states:
[i:mwwai9wx]”[It has been decided] that [b:mwwai9wx]besides the canonical Scriptures nothing be read in church under the name of divine Scripture[/b:mwwai9wx]. But the canonical Scriptures are as follows: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua the Son of Nun, Judges, Ruth, the Kings, four books, the Chronicles, two books, Job, the Psalter, the five books of Solomon, the twelve books of the Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Daniel, Ezekiel, Tobit, Judith, Esther, Ezra, two books, Maccabees, two books . . .” (canon 36 [A.D. 393]).[/i:mwwai9wx]
Second Council of Nicaea in 787 AD states:
[i:mwwai9wx]Ancient Epitome: We gladly embrace the Divine Canons, viz.: those of the Holy Apostles, of the Six Ecumenical Synods, as also of the local synods and of our Holy Fathers, as inspired by one and the same Holy Spirit. Whom they anathematize we also anathematize; whom they depose, we depose; whom they cut off, we cut off; and whom they subject to penalties, we also so subject.[/i:mwwai9wx]
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3819.htmMay 21, 2007 at 5:34 pm #8353
[quote:284stl42]So, what do you make of those books that specifically don’t warn of “taking away or adding”? Does that give us a green light to do so unless otherwise specified?
And thanks with a tip of the hat to Carmelite.
I’d expected the side effects of my chemo to not show up so early. I know that when I have worked with CA patients in the past they have described “Chemo Brain” where one starts on a thought, and it simply evaporates. That has happened to me more than once here. What I wanted to conclude in my comments above was that God being the author of Sacred Scripture knew from the first word what it would contain, so while the books are individual books, each inspired by God, He knew what the final jot and tittle would be. He knew that under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost, (the Third person in the Holy Trinity) a Council of the Catholic Church would have to settle the question of what books would end up in the Bible. Some verses in the Scriptures have multiple layers of meaning, they can refer both to the time that they where written as well as apply to situations yet to come.
If I’m going to suffer from “Chemo brain,” it may be better that I simply read rather than comment until I know I’m just going to be forgetful as an old codger, rather than have both maladies gang up on me.
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