A question about confession

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  • #1565

    weather
    Member

    <img src=” title=”Confused” /> I have a question about confession. It is my understanding that when we go to confession and confess our sins, we are forgiven. The priest usually tells me to say certain prayers or read from the bible certain passages, as my penance. I read yesterday, in one of the forums that God is going to hold us accountable for each sin we commit. That we would have to continue to repent for these sins even when we die. How is that? Am I not understanding something? I guess my question is, is our sin wiped away when we confess them? Do we start from that point on a clean slate, so to speak? And do we have to actually say outloud to the priest every sin we want to be forgiven for, or can a person be vague, such as (ex. I want to be forgiven for all of my sins, anyone I have hurt either knowingly or unknowingly? Another way to say that I guess would be, can we keep certain sins only in our hearts, between God and us? and still be forgiven?

    #7745

    LARobert
    Participant

    When we go to confession there are a few conditions that apply.

    First the priest must be a validly ordained priest who has faculties, (permission from the local bishop) to hear confessions and grant absolution.

    We must not hide from him any mortal sins, and we must be contrite, or sorry for having offended God by sinning. Perfect Contrition is sorrow for our sins because it offends God, Imperfect Contrition is sorrow for our sins motivated by our fear of punishment in Hell.

    The priest acts as a representative of Christ, and has been given the authority that Christ gave to the Apostles to forgive sins.

    Theoretically a priest could tell you that he does not feel you are making an effort to stop any habitual sins, and withold absolution, or the absolution could be invalid, (not effective) because you willingly withheld information about a mortal sin, or where not contrite.

    Lets say you make a good confession, and the priest absolves the sins. Your sins are forgiven. There is still the matter of restititution, or the temporal punishment which is not lifted or removed by the fact you are now forgiven.

    If you have wronged someone, lets say took something from them, part of justice is to make restitution. If they are unaware of the theft, or who did it, it is OK to make restitution without identifying yourself. So too with God, you may be forgiven, but you still have the penalties for the sins even though they are forgiven. That is what the aspect of the penance is.

    Penances in the early Church people where barred from reception of communion, sometimes until their deathbed, or could only attend the Mass after the Sermon, (they where permitted only for the Liturgy of the Word) and then where excluded with the Catechumens from the Eucharitstic Liturgy. From the times of the Apostles to the time of St. Gregory the Great (6th Century) these penances where to our minds very severe. But then again, they understood how sin was a form of murder of the soul. Gradually the Church allowed anyone to stay throughout the Mass, and allowed those forgiven of sins to recieve communion as a Pastoral provision in order to provide graces to help them avoid further sins. But the punishment for sins was still an issue. Less severe penances and the opportunity to gain Indulgences where granted by the Church based on the penances imposed in the Early Church, but rather than the strict punishments that the Early Church imposed the Church granted that the same punishment could be granted by pius acts, making a pilgrimage, doing acts of charity for the poor or feeding or caring for the sick, offering certain prayers etc. If there was a “balance” left when you die, God provided for us a place where we could finish the punishment that justice mandates we pay for our sins, Purgatory, where we are purified of any final punishment due to us, so we may be purified, (as Scripture tells us, like a refiners fire. or As gold is tested by fire.)

    All of this was made availible to us by the Merits of Christ during His Passion and Death on the Cross, not because we are deserving or because we can do it on our own, but because our actions are sanctified by uniting ourselves to Him and His work. Otherwise our penances are simply human works.

    Summing it up; A priest acts by the power of Christ to forgive sins.
    We are forgiven by Christ’s actions through the priest, and our sorrow for our sins, united to our faith in Christ. There remains the debt, or punishment that needs to be paid, and we can do that through many ways, acts of charity, prayer, (not through money) and only for sins of the past, we can’t build up credit or get out of jail free cards. These punishments are acceptable to God when we unite with Him and do the penance with the desire to remain faithful to Him.

    No Magic, only Divine Justice. (Edited to correct some of my spelling :oops: [i:2y58sqfr]SINS[/i:2y58sqfr])

    #7746

    Benedict
    Member

    To answer the questions specifically:

    [quote:23iq9mqj]I read yesterday, in one of the forums that God is going to hold us accountable for each sin we commit. That we would have to continue to repent for these sins even when we die. How is that?[/quote:23iq9mqj]
    This is incorrect as regards sins that have been absolved in confession. While we do need to make restitution through temporal punishment, there is no guilt to repent of after we are absolved.

    [quote:23iq9mqj]I guess my question is, is our sin wiped away when we confess them? Do we start from that point on a clean slate, so to speak?[/quote:23iq9mqj]
    Yes. You are absolved of your sins. As far as the east is from the west, so has God removed you from your sins.

    [quote:23iq9mqj]And do we have to actually say outloud to the priest every sin we want to be forgiven for, or can a person be vague[/quote:23iq9mqj]
    You must confess any and all mortal sins that you can remember.

    [quote:23iq9mqj]Another way to say that I guess would be, can we keep certain sins only in our hearts, between God and us? and still be forgiven?[/quote:23iq9mqj]
    Does that sound like [i:23iq9mqj]confession [/i:23iq9mqj]to you? Me neither. If you intentionally withhold confessing a sin, you are certainly not absolved of it, and you may have sinned or even invalidated your confession in doing so.

    If you honestly forget, you are forgiven. However, you are obligated to confess the sin the next time you are at confession.

    #7794

    weather
    Member

    Opps! what happens if I goto confession and am absolved from my sins go and receive the Eucharist and 2 hours latter realize I forgot a mortal sin to confess and die that nite,will I goto to heaven or where ever? Or the worse case a mortal sin you forgot to say 15 years and don’t even remember what it was.

    #7795

    LARobert
    Participant

    If you did not intentionally omit the sin, it is forgiven, however you should still confess it the next time you go to confession.

    There is a problem in the spiritual life called scruples. Martin Luther and St. Ignatius Loyola both suffered from it. There was a big difference between the two however. St. Ignatius was able to overcome scruples, whereas Martin Luther never did. Scruples is the worry or fear that everything we do is sinful and God cannot or will not forgive us. St. Ignatius was able to find confidence that God’s grace was capable of forgiving us through the means He gave us in the sacrament of Penance. Martin Luther was always fearful of a God who would reject him as a reprobate, he even refered to the souls of men as dung heaps. The Catholic sees God as our Father, (as our Lord taught us) who while we are indeed sinful are adopted and helped by His grace to improve ourselves and come to love Him more fully by cooperation with His grace. The Protestant sees man as reprobate, unworthy of salvation, and that God overlooks our stench and somehow lets us slip through the gates of heaven.

    If someone is in danger of death, he can make a perfect act of contrition. There are two types of contrition, imperfect, in which we are sorry for our sins because we are fearful of divine justice, and the fires of hell. Perfect is sorrow for our sins because they offend God. While if we are contrite (sorry for our sins) even if imperfectly and confess to a priest with jurisdiction to absolve, we are assured by Christ’s promise “Who’s sins you forgive they are forgiven, who’s sins you retain they are retained” that our sins are forgiven. God will not withold forgiveness to us if we die without a priest at hand to grant us absolution if we are truly contrite. God has given us the ordinary means, (the sacraments and the authority he gave to the Church) and extraordinary means of salvation, all based on the Passion, Death and Resurrection of our Lord.

    #7861

    Ron K
    Member

    However the Bible states correctly in Bold Print below:

    Mr. Weathers said:
    [quote:1xt7yaey] I have a question about confession. It is my understanding that when we go to confession and confess our sins, we are forgiven. The priest usually tells me to say certain prayers or read from the bible certain passages, as my penance. I read yesterday, in one of the forums that God is going to hold us accountable for each sin we commit. That we would have to continue to repent for these sins even when we die. How is that? Am I not understanding something? I guess my question is, is our sin wiped away when we confess them? Do we start from that point on a clean slate, so to speak? And do we have to actually say outloud to the priest every sin we want to be forgiven for, or can a person be vague, such as (ex. I want to be forgiven for all of my sins, anyone I have hurt either knowingly or unknowingly? Another way to say that I guess would be, can we keep certain sins only in our hearts, between God and us? and still be forgiven?[/quote:1xt7yaey]_________________

    To which Mr.Benedict answers:

    To answer the questions specifically:

    [quote:1xt7yaey]Quote:
    I read yesterday, in one of the forums that God is going to hold us accountable for each sin we commit. That we would have to continue to repent for these sins even when we die. How is that?

    This is incorrect as regards sins that have been absolved in confession. While we do need to make restitution through temporal punishment, there is no guilt to repent of after we are absolved. [/quote:1xt7yaey]
    [b:1xt7yaey]Absolved in confession? No sir! Only God can forgive sins and that happens when the person accepts the free gift offered by Jesus’ death on the cross! Who says the priest has that power? John 20:23 does not say that, but since the disciples knew how one got saved, they could then tell those that theyed meet if their sins were or weren’t forgiven base upon what those people would be trusting in [/b:1xt7yaey]

    Quote:
    I guess my question is, is our sin wiped away when we confess them? Do we start from that point on a clean slate, so to speak?
    [quote:1xt7yaey]
    Yes. You are absolved of your sins. As far as the east is from the west, so has God removed you from your sins. [/quote:1xt7yaey]
    [b:1xt7yaey]Talk about quoting out of context, Benedict! No one gets to Heaven until they understand that they would be cleaned when they washed in the blood of Jesus That alone saves anyone. (Hebrews 9:22)[/b:1xt7yaey]

    [quote:1xt7yaey]Quote:
    And do we have to actually say outloud to the priest every sin we want to be forgiven for, or can a person be vague

    You must confess any and all mortal sins that you can remember. [/quote:1xt7yaey]
    [b:1xt7yaey]Mortal sins? since when? REvalation 21:27 says NO imperfections enter and James 2:10 says “if you commit one you are guilty of all” James 5:16,17 is talking about physical death such as Paul mentioned in 1 Cor 11 (Or somewhere in there) and as Those two in Acts 5 dropped over for lying.[/b:1xt7yaey]

    [quote:1xt7yaey][quote:1xt7yaey]Quote:
    Another way to say that I guess would be, can we keep certain sins only in our hearts, between God and us? and still be forgiven?

    Does that sound like confession to you? Me neither. If you intentionally withhold confessing a sin, you are certainly not absolved of it, and you may have sinned or even invalidated your confession in doing so.

    If you honestly forget, you are forgiven. However, you are obligated to confess the sin the next time you are at confession. [/quote:1xt7yaey][/quote:1xt7yaey]

    [b:1xt7yaey]So you think that going to a priest will absolve you? Sounds like a gospel of works and just ignore what Jesus did? I got news for you – Faith in what Jesus did is the only thing that washes away sins, not your going to a priest to have him “do his thing” [/b:1xt7yaey]
    [b:1xt7yaey]
    Makes me wonder what you fellows think Jesus accomplished at Calvary?
    Isaiah 53:5 [color=red:1xt7yaey]- by HIS stripes we are healed[/color:1xt7yaey][/b:1xt7yaey]

    #7864

    weather
    Member

    <img src=” title=”Smile” /> That is MY belief and millions more in the world. Sorry you don’t see it our way,thats ok you have your idea on salvation and we have ours.

    #7865

    Ron K
    Member

    Mr. Weathers says:

    [quote:33pv9xze]That is MY belief and millions more in the world. Sorry you don’t see it our way,thats ok you have your idea on salvation and we have ours. [/quote:33pv9xze]

    I know it is your “belief” but how many ways do you think there are to get to Heaven? The Bible says only one way. Now if you aren’t trusting in what Jesus did at Calvary, where does that put you? Don’t you realize that I’m not the one you are rejecting, but it is Jesus and your salvation?

    #7871

    LARobert
    Participant

    For we read in the Bible that Jesus said to the Apostles when he laid hands on them, “who’s sins you forgive they are forgiven, who’s sins you retain they are retained.” Jn 20:23.

    This same authority given to the Apostles is what every bishop and priest today is given at ordination. The authority, (some use the term power, however as the term can be corrupted and made to sound as if it is a form of magic, or a personal posession of the priest of his own authority, and not what it really is the authority given by Christ Jesus to his Apostles and their successors we will use authority here.) No Christian would deny that Jesus being truly God and truly man, had the authority to forgive sins. Being God Incarnate, Jesus also had the authority to delegate the authority to forgive sins. Which is what he did in John 20:23. No properly instructed Catholic believes that a priest forgives sins based on his own authority, but rather on the authority given by Christ to His Church, and given within the office of the priest and bishop.

    It is for this reason that won’t play any more scriptural Slight of Hand tricks with the same Protestant arguments that have been answered time and time again. I can’t answer for anyone else here.

    At the risk of being told by the infallible Ron that the books that I have suggested are evil, because they point out scriptural support for the teachings of the Catholic Church, that have remained the same since Christ Jesus founded the Church, (I’ll use the word power here) These books must have some sort of power to cause Ron to fear them, and condemn them as being evil when he has not read them yet. But here it goes, good books to read on the subject of answers to the perennial false accusationas against the Catholic Church, written by former “Bible Christians” who became true Bible Christians when they became Catholics… Rather than type out all the reasons why your arguments are false, I suggest you look for these books at your local library so you don’t have to pay money that may go to the Roman Catholic Church, you will need the money to put into the collection plate when God’s grace wears you down and brings you back to Him and His Church.

    Evangelical is not Enough
    Rome Sweet Home
    A Biblical Defense of Catholicism (Dave Armstrong)
    The Catholic Verses: 95 Bible Passages That Confound Protestants (Dave A
    By What Authority?: An Evangelical Discovers Catholic Tradition
    Surprised by Truth: 11 Converts Give the Biblical and Historical Reasons for Becoming Catholic

    #7872

    Ron K
    Member

    LARoberts says:
    [quote:vywh0lft]
    For we read in the Bible that Jesus said to the Apostles when he laid hands on them, “who’s sins you forgive they are forgiven, who’s sins you retain they are retained.” Jn 20:23. [/quote:vywh0lft]
    Jesus said that but that isn’t giving them any sort of “Power” for He knows that He taught them the gospel and when they witness to others that theyed have the smarts to tell people if their beliefs were right or wrong, thus their sins were or weren’t forgiven.

    [quote:vywh0lft]This same authority given to the Apostles is what every bishop and priest today is given at ordination. The authority, (some use the term power, however as the term can be corrupted and made to sound as if it is a form of magic, or a personal posession of the priest of his own authority, and not what it really is the authority given by Christ Jesus to his Apostles and their successors we will use authority here.)[/quote:vywh0lft]
    yes that is what Catholics have been taught to believe. But this like many other “traditions” of your church are not Biblical and must be rejected.

    [quote:vywh0lft] No Christian would deny that Jesus being truly God and truly man, had the authority to forgive sins.[/quote:vywh0lft]
    I agree

    [quote:vywh0lft]Being God Incarnate, Jesus also had the authority to delegate the authority to forgive sins. Which is what he did in John 20:23. [/quote:vywh0lft]
    God/Jesus can do anything but break His own words for He is the same yestersay today and tomorrow. His word establishes that only God can Judge and only God can forgive sins. This is based upon weither or not that person has placed their faith in what Jesus did at Calvary (see John 3:36 and 3:16-18) not on gouing to a priest for confession.
    [quote:vywh0lft]
    No properly instructed Catholic believes that a priest forgives sins based on his own authority, but rather on the authority given by Christ to His Church, and given within the office of the priest and bishop. [/quote:vywh0lft]
    You mean no regular person until they get brain-washed?

    [quote:vywh0lft]It is for this reason that won’t play any more scriptural Slight of Hand tricks with the same Protestant arguments that have been answered time and time again. I can’t answer for anyone else here. [/quote:vywh0lft]
    Your Church still does the scriptural slight of hand tricks! So please save the humility act
    [quote:vywh0lft]
    At the risk of being told by the infallible Ron that the books that I have suggested are evil, because they point out scriptural support for the teachings of the Catholic Church, that have remained the same since Christ Jesus founded the Church, (I’ll use the word power here)[/quote:vywh0lft]
    But Jesus did not start the “Catholic” church – it is a result of another Scriptures twist of Matthew 16:18 that you make that claim

    [quote:vywh0lft]These books must have some sort of power to cause Ron to fear them, and condemn them as being evil when he has not read them yet. But here it goes, good books to read on the subject of answers to the perennial false accusationas against the Catholic Church, written by former “Bible Christians” who became true Bible Christians when they became Catholics…[/quote:vywh0lft]
    I do not fear them for they aren’t even written by your church people but by lay people that swallowed the same garbage as you’ve said.

    [quote:vywh0lft] Rather than type out all the reasons why your arguments are false, I suggest you look for these books at your local library so you don’t have to pay money that may go to the Roman Catholic Church, you will need the money to put into the collection plate when God’s grace wears you down and brings you back to Him and His Church. [/quote:vywh0lft]
    God already has me in His church, I’m already a believer and He has no intentions on letting me slip back into Catholicism.
    [quote:vywh0lft]
    Evangelical is not Enough
    Rome Sweet Home
    A Biblical Defense of Catholicism (Dave Armstrong)
    The Catholic Verses: 95 Bible Passages That Confound Protestants (Dave A
    By What Authority?: An Evangelical Discovers Catholic Tradition
    Surprised by Truth: 11 Converts Give the Biblical and Historical Reasons for Becoming Catholic [/quote:vywh0lft]

    everyone of these books were written by people that have rejected the Gospel of Jesus Christ and what He did at Calvary. Be it Thomas Howard Mark Shea, Dave Armstong or even Scott Hahn, they all were former protastants turned catholic the perfect fit for they know the beliefs of true Christians. Figures that is why they’re so good at apologetics. But Matthew 24:24 Jesus warns of the last day deceptions being that convincing. With this in mind, lets look behind the scenes at Scott Hahn to see how or why they changed.

    http://www.bereanbeacon.org/RC_Apologis … ostasy.pdf

    Note: this is found on Richard Bennett’s website. He is a former priest who became an evengelical born-again Bible believer. Something you won’t find acceptable in Roman Catholicism This is his story:

    http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles_pd … timony.pdf

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