Reply To: [Orthodoxy] Papal Authority

Home Forums Everything Else [Orthodoxy] Papal Authority Reply To: [Orthodoxy] Papal Authority

#5160
Anonymous
Inactive

Continuation of Ted’s replies…….

[quote:3llede63]You say God always worked through one man in the Old Testament. We see in the Old Testament books of His prophets, this doesn’t mean that God was necessarily working through one man. These are testimonies of His Prophets, which the Comforter spoke through. However, when the Son had incarnated, He certainly did not leave all His authorities on St. Peter, nor did He only call St. Peter. He called the Twelve, who the New Testament tells us are the foundations of the Heavenly City, the Heavenly Jerusalem (Apocalypse 21: 14). [/quote:3llede63]

Ted, please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said “always”, I said God seems to like to work through one person. Nor did I say he left all his authorities to St. Peter either. As I’m sure you know that as Catholic we also see Christ giving the apostles the authority to bind and loose. The keys were strictly given to Peter along with the authority to bind and loose.

[quote:3llede63] God consistenly likes going through one person when it comes to authority, you argue. How does God elevate that in the New Testament. By protecting against inflated egos and titles. He introduces collegiality. All the Apostles, all have the same authority.[/quote:3llede63]

Forgive me if I’m not moved by your response. Perhaps you can explain how exactly [i:3llede63]collegiality[/i:3llede63] gets rid of inflated egos and titles? Even better, how about you explain how several men with inflated egos and titles is more productive and useful then just one having it? You see Ted, the Catholic system although the East wants to scream “equality”, they to struggled with one bishop trying to rise over the rest. Bishop Dioscoros had this ego and title problem you speak of by riding himself of Flavian. More of a reason for God to pick one out for himself don’t you think? <img loading=” title=”Wink” /> Especially if he saw this coming. Which I’m sure he did by giving St. Peter the keys and renaming him just like He did to others in the OT.

[quote:3llede63]This is our Lord Who taught whoever wishes to be first, let him be last. [/quote:3llede63]

Exactly!! More of a reason to see why the doctrine of Papal supremacy would develop. To say you don’t see any evidence of the Papal Supremacy in early times is forgive me for saying this, it’s ignorant!! I posted some quotes of fathers earlier on this post. Am I to ignore these because you guys also have some quotes? But it’s also true to say that some struggled with papal supremacy. St. Augustine was certainly one of them. But to my knowledge he never disobeyed the Pope of his time.

[quote:3llede63]What of the Apostles, do we think that they would have taken kindly to a claim that one of them was above the other? Did the ten not rebuke the sons of Zebedee when they asked the Lord to permit them to sit on their right or left? [/quote:3llede63]

Probably not good, but forgive me for sounding smarmy, but so what if they would not take kindly to it. Do you think the people that were not chosen to become Apostles took kindly to it? What does this prove?

[quote:3llede63]Did St. Paul not rebuke the Corinthians for beginning conversations of who was a better Apostle or greater, Paul, Apollo or Peter? Did not the laudable St. Paul say IS CHRIST DIVIDED? Who is our cornerstone? Always has been, and always will be Christ! [/quote:3llede63]

Yup, he certainly did. He was Justified to do so. Is this what you think we as Catholics are doing?

~Victor