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#4587
Anonymous
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[quote:384kvz2c] Canon 28 of the Fourth Council illustrates that this is the reason also. (These are all councils affirmed by the Roman Catholic Church…all stating that the reason for primacy was one of honour because Rome was the imperial city). [/quote:384kvz2c]
For the record, the See of Rome rejected Canon 28.

…. and going back to your quote:
[quote:384kvz2c]I think St. Vincent of Lerins said it best that the true test of catholic, of the beliefs and tenets of the Church, is something that has believed always and by all. [/quote:384kvz2c]
As far as this statement goes, I would like you to address where exactly the historical basis for Canon 28 came from…. you seem to object to Roman primacy because it is not historical (in your opinion), so I am confused how Canon 28 and the advance of Constantanople does not jump out at you as completely unwarrantable, novel, and uncanonical. The see was not Apostolic (The legend of St. Andrew founding the see was a late afterthought; it is now abandoned by all scholars.), had no glorious traditions, no reason whatever for its usurpation of the first place in the East, but an accident of secular politics. The first historical Bishop of Byzantium was Metrophanes (315-25); he was not even a metropolitan, he was the lowest in rank a diocesan bishop could be, a suffragan of Heraclea. That is all his successors ever would have been, they would have had no power to influence anyone, had not Constantine chosen their city for his capital.

For me… the only proof I need is history…. MODERN history.

Now don’t get me wrong, I love my Orthodox brothers and sisters, but come on….
Jerusalem was overrun by the Arab Moslems in 637, and was ruled by the Moslem Turks until World War I (except for 1099-1187 under the Latins).

Antioch was notorious for heresy, succumbing successively to Docetism, Modalism, Arianism, Nestorianism, and Monophysitism. After 451, it became increasingly Monophysite. It fell to the Persians in 538 and to the Arab Moslems in 637. Many bishops and a third of the people submitted to Rome in 1724 (Metkites).

Alexandria essentially plunged into Monophysitism after the Council of Chalcedon in 451. Whatever little continuing impact it had on orthodox, Chalcedonian Christianity was pretty much swept away with the Moslem conquest of 642.

Constantinople [color=red:384kvz2c](now Istanbul)[/color:384kvz2c] fell prey to Arianism, Monophysitism, and Monothelitism, but later thrived as the center of the Byzantine Empire and Eastern Orthodoxy. Its claim as “New Rome” and its place as the seat of Greek Christian culture vanished with its complete overthrow by the Turkish Moslems in 1453.

Rome never succumbed to heresy. It experienced barbarian invasions, periodic moral decadence, a few weak or immoral popes, the Protestant Revolt, the “Enlightenment,” Modernism, etc., but always survived and rejuvenated itself. The papacy continues unabated to this day, with venerable power and prestige.

Servant of God John Paul II dies…. and the world comes to a stand-still…. and I have yet to meet an Orthodox Catholic in person who could name all the current Patriarchs. My point? The Orthodox faith has become a non-factor in the world. The historical record shows the Primacy of Rome, and the Roman Catholic Church still has relevance in today’s world…

… I can live with that. <img loading=” title=”Wink” />

Peace in Christ,
Scott
http://www.newadvent.com
http://www.scripturecatholic.com