Reply To: I am Catholic, my brother is not.

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Yes I am well aware of the Council of Florence. Where all except Bishop Mark of Ephesus agreed to the Primacy of the Pope, the Filioque, Purgatory as a dogma, as well as several other Dogmas that were defined either after the Schism, or were used as excuses for the Schism.

As to the Original Catholic Encyclopedia, it still has very sound Catholic Teachings, Vatican II did not change Catholic Dogma, nor did it reverse any teachings of the Church. There was in fact a revision or rather an updated edition in entitled the New Catholic Encyclopedia after Vatican II, published in 1967 in 15 volumes with suppluments over the next five years. It was re-edited and published again in 2002, Now I have print copies of both the original 1917 and the 1967 editions, but unless there is a major difference between the two I post using the 1917 for two reasons. Catholic Scholars both Traditionalist and Modern both accept it as a source document. and more importantly to me, is that it is availible in an electronic format, which saves typing and my typos.

There are those who have written quite horrid things about the Church prior to Vatican II and those who have taken the opposite stance saying that the Church after Vatican II is no longer Catholic. The truth is that the Catholic Church that existed before Vatican II and after are the Same Catholic Church with the same teachings.

I think where you may be getting things confused is if a Catholic attempts Marriage before a Justice of the Peace, or in a Non-Catholic Church (to a non-Catholic or a Catholic) the Church holds those marriages as invalid because the Catholic is obliged to follow Catholic Canon Law according to their Rite. So a Latin Rite Catholic must follow Latin Rite Canon Law, and recieve the consent or dispensation from his or her bishop to Marry a Non-Catholic and for a Protestant Service or Service with both Catholic and Protestant Clergy to participate in. This dispensation can be given for grave reasons, after the couple has been educated on the dangers of Mixed Marriages, and the non-catholic is instructed in the Faith so he or she knows what the Catholic partner’s responcibilities are to the Church, and that all Children will be raised as Catholics.

As for two baptized Protestants who enter into Marriage, they are not under an obligation to follow Catholic Canon Law, and a Marriage in a Church or by a Justice of the Peace is seen as valid, inviolate and a Sacrament by the Catholic Church. At least according to the Canon Law Seminars that I attended a couple of years ago.

St, Charles Borromeo is a good resource, but the CCC does not fully cover what the Church holds for marriages contracted between non-Catholics, because it is after all a summary of teachings focused on what Catholics are to hold and believe. To find how the Church views Non-Catholics we need additional resources.

In another thread we had Lionel from Italy who still holds to Fr. Feeney and the Slaves of the Immaculate Heart’s teachings on Extra Ecclesia Nula Salus. And take a very strict interpretation of it. However long before Vatican II, Pope Pius IX, who’s Pontificate ran from 1848 to 1878 as well as Pope Pius XII who’s Pontificate ran from 1939 to 1958 both combatted the idea that one had to be a formal member of the Catholic Churc. Both Popes clarified that the statements that Fr. Feeney’s followers adhere to in a very strict defention of the Earlier pronouncements of the Church were being taken out of context by Feeney and his followers. While the Feeney group tries to gloss over the issue either by omitting the clarifications of these two Popes, and the Statements of Pope Pius XI who called the Jews, “Our Elder Brother’s in Faith” and established a commission for dialogue between Jews and Catholics before World War II, (which continues to this day) are evidence that the entire Catholic Church did not back Fr. Feeney’s radical ideas that only Formal members of the Catholic Church would be saved. While Feeney did influence many people’s thinking, it was not the Official teaching of the Catholic Church. Many of the Clergy in the USA were Irish, who had been persecuted by the British and had suffered while the Catholic Faith was illegal in Ireland, Scotland and England. There was much contampt between the two parties, which influenced both Feeney and others, and still does today on both sides. Ian Paisley a Member of Parlament from Northern Ireland has a website devoted to his allegations that the Pope is the Anti-Christ, and even during sessions of Parlament denounces the Pope and the Church. Bad blood on both sides, but that does not mean that because some people professed it that is was officially the teaching of the Church.