I enjoyed reading this discussion : You see…. I am a christian… just because Im christian doesnt mean I will agree with EVERYTHING a christian says… because I believe GODS word over man. Although the apostles were men aswell they were mean of authority given by Jesus himself…they are the last teachers of NEW laws and regulations after them and Jesus we are not to ADD OR TAKE AWAY from the HOLY SCRIPTURES. evidential in the bible … we are to take the New Testament as a WHOLE. So.. with that being said thats why I stopped attending catholic churches (I barely attended anyways because the whole environment was odd and questonable) and became christian because catholics tradition go against the bible (ESPECIALLY WORSHIPING MARY AND SAINTS) makes catholocism questionable
god specifically says in the bible not to make any statues on things on earth or in the heavens or below and worship them. And he also said to worship him and HIM ONLY. Anyways that is not my main point of my discussion… We are to take the text of the bible as a whole… not taking one scripture out without reading the surrounding sentences for they give essence to the main topic of whats being said.
THIS IS THE WAY IT GOES: the old testament: God infact new we were natural born sinners… and so sin followed sin and it continued… we were condemed by the law in the old testament… held captive in a way that we couldnt win … in which god decided to send his son to be a one time sacrafice for all since the sacraficing of animals time to time wasnt pleasing to god.. it was a constant reminder of how disobeying we were. Christ said he didnt come to abolish the law…but to fulfill. He lived the perfect life and re interpeted the old laws of Moses. In still keeping them but changing a couple (such as murder saying is your even angry your sinning) he even went as far to say that their are now two important commandments (love your god with all your heart and love others as you love yourself) and than he says to hang the rest of the laws and the laws of the prophets on this. Jesus is intellegent or to say our god is intellegent. If we keep those to commandments close to our hearts and do them accordingly we in no way can do any harm willingly.
Someone who loves god and others truly… just cannot do harm or atleast will try their best not to do harm. Regardless we are natural born sinners and we will be till the end of time. weather we choose to pratice sin is our individual choice. Now THROUGH FAITH WE ARE SAVED. It doesnt say by faith we are going to heaven. We are saying through faith of jesus (to have faith in jesus is to say that you believe you are a sinner and he died on the cross for our sins that infact was born of the virgin mary coming to be our one time sacrafice and through him and HIM ONLY is how we get to his father. ) Now after you are saved.. through true faith and a open heart to WANT TO CHANGE for chirst… you must continue to obey his commandments. His NEWER version of the commandments … and seperate them from the old laws of ceremonial washes and sacraficing, traditions…and just all those other things from the old testament because the bible says if we hold onto these laws we will be seperated from god… the law condems us and so by hanging onto them we are saying jesuss death wasnt enough for us. No more sacrafice, or keeping of the sabbath for jesus IS THE SABBATH AND WE HAVE REST IN HIM.
Now he also says let everyone be convinced in their own mind and what they choose to do be between him and god… and so be it. Now Jesus went one by one in the book of matthew re establishing the laws of moses in ways that were approchable and supporting of us. He was helping us not trying to give us a harder time. Jesus is the KEY to life. So if we keep the two most important commandments close to our hearts and HAVE FAITH in jesus continuously… you will subcontiously be able to fulfill the rest willingly because you have chirst in your heart and mind. Now you cannot have your salvation taken away… he says noone can snatch us from him.. and so we cant LOSE our salvation BUT we can definetly GIVE IT UP.
If a person appears to have faith in christ but doesnt follow his teachings then he never had faith at all or lost his faith. Now if you continue to willigly want to disobey god you will be telling him that you dont care about your salvation anymore and infact GIVE IT BACK… god cannot lie it is impossible so he infact never takes your salvation away you give it away. through repentence you can ask for it back BUT everytime we leave and come back after hearing the word its worst infact the bible says it was better for us to have not known the word at all if we continue to leave and return after hearing the good news.
You see as followers of god we daily will ask jesus to forgive our sins… because we are not perfect and we may do things that displease god but he knows who is purposely sinning and who isnt… Now repenting is different thats a fresh new start … it means you were not of god and you went a whole different way. So you can reconcile with god but know that to make it a habit is like crucifying jesus over and over again. So dont take advantage of his unconditional love and forgiving devotion to us. and so I agree to the fact that faith alone will not get us into heaven… its the works of jesus… following his laws… being holy just everything the jesus wants us to be BUT… FAITH IS THE KEY TO THEM ALL.
Jesus emphasizes on FAITH ALOT. actually the BIBLE DOES. this is because FAITH CAUSES A PERSON TO TAKE HOLD OF THAT CERTAIN THING THEY BELIEVE IN WHOLE HEARTEDLY. SO SOMEONE WHO HAS TRUE FAITH IN CHRIST … LOVES HIM AND ALSO FEARS GOD… BECAUSE THEY HAVE FAITH THEY BELIEVE HE EXSIST AND SO HE WILL “WILLINGLY” WANT TO CHANGE not be forced.. god doesnt want robots if that was the case im pretty sure he could have made us perfect .. he wants those who truly love him and want to obey him in heaven. so we have our own free will. in deed the bible says faith without good works is dead and good works without faith is dead.
A person who because a chrisitan after they learn the word and become closer to god should spread the good news, do good works, what would a chrisitan be if they just kept to themselves and never helped others. and likewise someone who IS doing good works, feeding the hungry, just a general good person but doesnt believe in god has a worthless set of deeds. UNDERSTAND?
when we say faith alone …. we are not saying by faith only we will go to heaven.. meaning we dont have to do anything else. WE ARE SAYING THAT FAITH SAVES US INSTANTLY WHEN WE CONFESS WITH OUR LIPS JESUS IS WHO HE IS AND THE GOSPEL IS THE CENTER OF OUR FAITH… AND THEN WE KEEP OUR SALVATION AND MAKE IT INTO HEAVEN BY DOING HIS GOOD WORKS. …. the bible clearly says by good works a man will NOT be saved its by faith… because FAITH LEADS TO GOOD WORKS…JESUS KNOWS WHAT HE IS TEACHING AND WHAT HE IS SAYING…
“8 For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not as a result of works ….. Ephesians 2:8-9 … by grace we are saved the grace of jesus… for his death on the calvary was his gift to us so that ANYONE who has faith in him WILL BE SAVED. that is a PROMISE. nOW AFTER YOU ARE SAVED THE REST IS UP TO YOU. Lets look at the definition of saved :
save 1 (sv)
v. saved, sav·ing, saves
a. To rescue from harm, danger, or loss.
b. To set free from the consequences of sin; redeem.
2. To keep in a safe condition; safeguard
So jesus SAVES US from the CONSEQUENCES OF SIN if we have true faith in him… SAVES US thats all… now if we continue to have faith we will begin to do his good works because man alone CANNOT become sinnless we are PERPETUAL sinners… but having faith in jesus that he died for our sins breaks that curse.. in fact he broke that curse when he died but those who believe this will recieve that very gift . The gift of the guidance of the Holy Spirit…he promises that he will never forsake us and will always be with us. anything you ask to be done in the NAME OF JESUS in great faith WILL BE DONE.
Now in regards to the church having so much authority… You see jesus said the church is important. BUT the words of men may be decieving… Jesus loves the church because its were believers get together in support of one another… group worship and devotion TO HIM AND HIM ONLY.. because he says when there two or more gathered in his name their he is. he loves his church because thats where his poeple are the ones who follow him. he didnt give the church authority to make its own doctrines… and make up new rules such as ‘YOU HAVE TO GO TO SUNDAY MASS” JESUS DOESNT WANT ROBOTS OR PEOPLE FORCED TO DO ANYTHING FOR HIM… he wants those WHO WANT TO DO THINGS FOR HIM TO DO THEM. Just like it says when it comes to giving to the needy give what you heart tells you to… give what you can give… do not add or take away from the bible.. THE HOLY SCRIPTURES. that means EVERYTHING…including the teaching of the desciples … they said to stay guard to what THEY TAUGHT… because it was percisely from god… jesus..
.. nowhere in the bible does it say to pray the rosary or to mary the hail mary full of garce and so on is complete repetition and JESUS WARNS AGAINST REPETITION and blabbing during prayer in the bible. BECAUSE HE KNEW WHAT WAS TO COME… they also say be careful of those who try to make apostles of themselves… trying to make those obide by there traditions… traditions of MEN.. for they were not in the scriptures so they were not from god… and oral teachings now in days is none sense.
they even warned agaist word of mouth teaching because people were pretending to have spoken with the apostles therefore people can lie… men can lie but the word of god could never. he called the scriptures HOLY FOR HE HIMSELF READ FROM THE OLD TESTAMENT SCRIPTURES WHEN HE WANTED TO DECLARE HE INDEED WAS THE MESSAIAH. Everything Ive spoke of IS IN THE BIBLE…. I WAS SO INTO MY EXPLANATION I DIDNT PROVIDE THE VERSE BUT IF YOU GO TO THE FORUM EVERYTHING ELSE NOT ABOUT CATHOLICS AND GO TO THE SELECTION titled FAITH ALONE BY WEATHER… its the very top… I go into deatail about this and i provide tons of verses. … all in all the bible is to be read as a whole…. nothing taken or added.. and although some verses may have deeper meaning we are not to branch off so far from what was said. For many verses speak for themselves.
MEN ARE NOT PERFECT AND MEN ARE ABLE TO LIE. only god is perfect so how on earth are priest and bishops able to say they on unfallable … when there have been many times where unfallable men of the catholic church corrected unfallable men…. even unfallable leaders of the catholic church corrected themselves. … a priest was asked why they do the eucharist and is it infact a sacraficing ritual… and he said that catholics would say that the eucharist infact IS the sacrafice of JESUS ON THE CALVARY.. that ITS NOT A SEPERATE SACRAFICE FROM THE ONE JESUS DID ON THE CROSS BUT ITS ACTUALLY THE SACRAFICE ITSELF. (youtube: Catholicism; Crisis of Faith) I am totally scratching my head at this. this totally goes against scripture… jesus was the one time sacrafice and it says in the bible there was no need for anymore sacrafice … so what was said by this PRIEST is in fact incorrect… this proves he is not unfallable. For priest believe that the leaders of the church get devine answers from god and what they say goes.. they cant make mistakes…. so if I were catholic i would have to believe what he just said was correct…. = / … childish
believe me my friends noone but god can tell you what is write and my our god speaks… so pray that he may guide you to your own understanding and so that noone may decieve you. I believe the bible and the bible alone for the bishops and priest are just MEN.. and MEN MAKE MISTAKES. the apostles of jesus end with the final twelve and in revelation jesus tells his apostle write what youve seen in a book and seal it… the book of revelation is the last book… nomore teaching come after that.
SO BY FAITH IS CORRECT… BECAUSE BY FAITH ALONE A PERSON CAN FOLLOW GODS COMMANDS AND ENTER INTO THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN. we state faith to prove our seperation from traditions of the catholic church… for my friend… kneeling and kissing the feet of mary is NOT going to get you into heaven. praying the rosary bead by bead will NOT get you into heaven….Jesus said we have rest in him not Mary…dont get me wrong Mary was special but she was just like us.. for she knew she needed a savior and called herself the lord handmaid, she was humble and a servant of god… reciting the same prayer over and over will NOT get you into heaven…
BUT BY THE GRACE OF GOD WE ARE SAVED… and BY THAT VERY FAITH IN WHICH SAVED US WILL HELP US KEEP OUR LIFEJACKET ON… to stay above the surface of the waters of decption that soaks us in false thoughts and wants to drown us with fishy regulations, OUR FAITH KEEPS OUR HEADS OUT OF THE DEEP LIES SO THAT THE WAVES OF TRIALS IN LIFE WILL NOT TIP US…OUR ARMS MAY GET TIERD BUT JESUS IS OUR LIFEJACKET AND HE WONT LET US DROWN. … faith saves…. the scriptures are sacred as stated in the bible and is our only proof of the teaching of jesus… living in faith keeps you saved so when our lord comes he will take those who believed Jesus is the ONLY WAY. as stated in OUR bible. Amen may the lord glorify your thoughts and allow you to see the truth and the truth shall set you free. GLory to god and god only by FAITH can one succeed.